CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

Two words.
Jose Baez
Who I consider below the level of a public defender.

JMHO

This case has a tremendous amount of circumstantial evidence alone, that simply cannot be explained away.

I’m not the least bit concerned here.

 

[k-mac]

I wonder if kk merrily sang along to the radio on her road trip to co.

watched young adult last night with Charlize theron.

as she drives to her home town to rekindle her 'first love' she keeps rewinding the SAME song and sang it over and over......

and funny you mentioned this cause KK crossed my mind!!!

 

[MyBelle]

I do wonder if over the months, PF and KK planned it so that would be each others' reasonable doubt. KK has her deal, her lawyer was with her for the 4.5 hour video testimony and will prep her and keep her on track at trial. KK will be the source of multiple reasonable doubts perhaps resulting in a hopelessly hung jury or even a Casey A. acquittal. It could be KK does her 3 years, PF spends 3 years in county jail, and that's it.

I sure hope not. Why the DA cut such a sweet deal with KK is beyond my grasp and I hold out hope it was because the Feds intend to file their own charges re: the transport of the gun and the cell phone text fraud.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

This is another confusing part of the timeline (for me, anyway). It's bad enough that Baby K was likely in the condo while her mother was being murdered and her dad was putting her mother's remains into a tote and cleaning himself up before heading off to Thanksgiving dinner.

That doesn't make sense. PF wouldn't have loaded the tote into the open bed of his pickup, put Baby K in her carrier, and driven to the ranchette. I'm missing something here.

Yes, I think he went back later that night for the tote, and left the baby with his mother while transferring it to the barn. Imo

 

[GordianKnot]

Two words.
Jose Baez
Who I consider below the level of a public defender.

JMHO

I'll do you one better, and use three words:

"No way, Jose."

JMO.

 

[MemPat]

KK acquired an anonymous burner phone (the number previously assigned to completely cleared SR) before KB vanished. KK had that phone before, during and after KB vanished, then she destroyed it. These are physical acts indicative of KK's premeditation.

In AA item#50, CL provided LE with KK's gmail account info. LE obtained a SW and found that location data was available for most of November and December 2018, except "the dates surrounding the murder of Berreth contained no location history." The word "surrounding" implies before, during and after KB vanished. This is also evidence of physical actions taken by KK indicating premeditation.

From the Prelim, Thread#39, page 79:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV1m1 minute ago
Around 4:30 p.m. on Nov. 22, Frazee texted Kenney asking for her to call him. Frazee eventually called, saying, “You need to get out here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.” Kenney interpreted that as Kelsey Berreth was dead. @KOAA

First off, KK is repeating alleged spoken words which cannot be proven. This is not a text. Secondly, this is presented as a surprise to KK, as though she never expected to hear such a thing, a sudden demand. But that flies in the face of her direct actions before, during and after KB vanished showing KK had premeditation.

I cannot find a single action taken by PF indicating premeditation. All I find is KK's accusations, and there is no evidence supporting her words. JMO

I guess I'm buying the candle story. I've had experience lol. Gdaughter liked to put the sleep mask thingy on that she got me and we'd sniff the candles, and pick out our favorites. I'm not a big candle person, but LOTS of people are. I think they're a fire hazard myself. Primarily it's nonsense fun...
Why do I think I'm the only one here who did it?!

I just learned that "guess the candle scent" is a party game. Google it!

 

[MsBetsy]

IMHO, the only reason some folks raised eyebrows at the candle story is because it seemed an unlikely thing for a macho ranchette cowboy like PF to think up. It's more the kind of thing women would think of.

Of course, as we now know, a woman was intimately involved in the plotting. I leave you to decide who you think thought up the candle business (whether or not there were ever any actual candles).

It also doesn't seem likely that he would call his girlfriend in the middle of the night to tell her he dreamed of her wearing a white wedding dress, but apparently he did.
I think PF manipulated women however he knew how. He used flattery and romance to get what he wanted and fear and intimidation to get what he wanted. It's all about control. Imo

 

[MemPat]

Do you think when LE questioned KK about PF burning KB’s body in the tote they asked her at all to describe the smell? I’m guessing they didn’t, but would be somewhat interesting if they did to find out how she described it.

The things you learn by googling:
"Burning muscle tissue gives off an aroma similar to beef in a frying pan, and body fat smells like a side of fatty pork on the grill. But you probably won't mistake the scent of human remains for a cookout. ... Burning skin has a charcoal like smell, while setting hair on fire produces a sulfurous odor."

 

[k-mac]

That’s true, but they really only need her to provide some clarity to the rest of the evidence.

They could bury this guy on his lies and deception alone.

His mistake was trying to sell this as a non crime, and that required him to maintain contact with a dead person.

Fortunately, this idiot didn’t realize that you can’t sell that story, if both phones are in the same place.

It’s rare that a case has this much incriminating digital evidence.

that's where I have a problem
the general consensus is we take it as fact KK was wherever her phone was.

but on the other hand we have a consensus that PF had kelseys phone with or without Kelsey.

its not fool hearty, a phone isn't and can not prove it was in the company of owner at any given time.

I am comfortable though that LE have PLENTY of incriminating evidence we have no idea about yet that does in fact support kk was indeed with her phone just saying that alone is not enough for me.
especially when she enjoyed the game playing and burner phones she was up on the importance and relevance of it all.

moo

 

[MassGuy]

that's where I have a problem
the general consensus is we take it as fact KK was wherever her phone was.

but on the other hand we have a consensus that PF had kelseys phone with or without Kelsey.

its not fool hearty, a phone isn't and can not prove it was in the company of owner at any given time.

I am comfortable though that LE have PLENTY of incriminating evidence we have no idea about yet that does in fact support kk was indeed with her phone just saying that alone is not enough for me.
especially when she enjoyed the game playing and burner phones she was up on the importance and relevance of it all.

moo

And that’s where logic comes in.

This plot was designed to make it appear as if there wasn’t a crime, so KK wouldn’t have been concerned about fabricating a false alibi (not that I believe she could have pulled this off if she tried).

KK was trying to be invisible, and part of that was not creating a false trail.

Because creating a false trail, inherently creates a trail.

Wherever her phone was when the communication was happening, she was.

There are also witnesses, and likely, other forms of evidence that would have satisfied law enforcement to the degree that they were finally willing to believe a liar.

 

[MemPat]

PF is deserving of the “dumbest criminal of the year” award.

This guy was so stupid, that he kept KB’s phone with him for two days after he last claimed to have seen her.

Apparently he doesn’t know how to use Google.

What you are describing doesn’t happen with people exhibiting this pattern of behavior (complete ignorance and stupidity).

These people don’t cast reasonable doubt in one another. They incriminate one another.

Even if these were two criminal geniuses, they couldn’t pull off a conspiracy like that.

That’s a bad movie, not real life.

If the jury doesn’t believe KK, fine.

Explain the lie about when he last saw her (corroborated by surveillance footage and cell phone data).

Explain the fact that his phone was texting and calling KB for two days after she was dead.

Explain the phone call to KK after PF left KB’s house, a phone call that jibes with her account of him telling her “you have a mess to clean up.”

Explain how KK had KB’s phone.

Explain the lies to Doss, law enforcement, and CB.

Explain the physical evidence at the barn, to include those cadaver dog hits.

Explain the blood evidence in KB’s home.

Explain the evidence of a fire at PF’s ranchette.

Explain the forensic evidence (we don’t know the full extent of this yet).

We’ve been privy to so little, but somehow, it’s a lot.

The defense already has its hands full, and we’re just getting started.

Your honor, the prosecution rests!

 

[MassGuy]

If someone had been talking to you about someone's murder for months and one day called you to indicate it was done, you wouldn't be too surprised, would you?

If he ha


Your honor, the prosecution rests!

Destroy KK, and you still are in a world of hurt.

 

[MemPat]

I'll do you one better, and use three words:

"No way, Jose."

JMO.

Ha! I saw Jose on the Aaron Hernandez doc this morning and it brought back the word that always comes to mind when he appears: Smarmy.

 

[k-mac]

And that’s where logic comes in.

There are also witnesses, and likely, other forms of evidence that would have satisfied law enforcement to the degree that they were finally willing to believe a liar.

rs and bbm

after what was written up about KK by LE being a proven liar no way are they taking her word about anything.

there is 100% evidence to gel with what she is saying. we have to have faith about this is my guess.

CCTV thankfully is everywhere now. I think it will be key to her every move.

 

[GordianKnot]

Ha! I saw Jose on the Aaron Hernandez doc this morning and it brought back the word that always comes to mind when he appears: Smarmy.

Yes, Mem, and if we go ahead and attach a noun to that adjective, like, say, "Sleazebag," what we end up with is "Smarmy Sleazebag," which describes JB to a tee.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

rs and bbm

after what was written up about KK by LE being a proven liar no way are they taking her word about anything.

there is 100% evidence to gel with what she is saying. we have to have faith about this is my guess.

CCTV thankfully is everywhere now. I think it will be key to her every move.

Yeah. You don’t literally call someone a liar in an arrest affadavit, and then use them as a key part of your case, unless you have firm evidence that their account is accurate.

That would be shooting yourself in the foot.

They know the stakes.

 

[skyedaze]

Here's a link - I think it was also in one of the court documents.
Cops find bags of adult teeth at Patrick Frazee’s property in search for Kelsey Berreth: Documents

Wow disgusting.
So....I'm pretty sure that extracting DNA from teeth is "consumptive testing."
Thanks for the link!

 

[MsBetsy]

The things you learn by googling:
"Burning muscle tissue gives off an aroma similar to beef in a frying pan, and body fat smells like a side of fatty pork on the grill. But you probably won't mistake the scent of human remains for a cookout. ... Burning skin has a charcoal like smell, while setting hair on fire produces a sulfurous odor."

I wonder if that noxious smell from burning plastic would be more powerful than a burning body. Imo

 

[MemPat]

Destroy KK, and you still are in a world of hurt.

Sorry you read that reply before I had a chance to clean up the random phrases!

 

[MassGuy]

Sorry you read that reply before I had a chance to clean up the random phrases!

Ha! I’m savy enough to overlook such things.

Everyone makes that mistake at some point.

If PF was on here, he’d likely make it on every post.