CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[MemPat]

BBMFF:

That is most certainly not "all that they have."

They have camera evidence of KB arriving back at the townhome after her trip to Walmart on the 22nd.

They also have PF on camera outside the townhome on the 22nd.

They also have PF's movements in his truck that day, along w/ the cell phone pings showing both his and KB's phones were moving in the same direction at the same time as PF's truck that day.

There is a plethora of evidence in this case. The cell phone evidence alone is going to be damning to PF, IMO, never mind all of the blood/forensic evidence that LE has gathered and the corroborating testimony that KK will provide that further substantiates the evidence that has been collected.

Nobody, but nobody, is going to be relying upon PF's memory of events to make a determination about what happened here.

The one thing I do wholeheartedly agree with you about is the importance of the jury composition.

DA May must make sure that the jurors selected are intelligent, reasonable, objective, rational human beings.

To that end, all of the Lifetime movie buffs, conspiracy theorists, devils' advocates, feelings- over-facts types and/or certifiable fruit loops will need to be issued peremptory challenges and sent on home to watch the trial from the comfort of their overstuffed La-Z-Boy recliners.
Either that, or they can just go back to watching the Lifetime channel and/or reading their latest Silhouette Romance novel. Whichever. Just as long as none of those irrational types are on the jury.

DA May knows the type of jurors he needs to select. He'll get his picks right.

JMO.

Just wondering where fruit loops go to get certified. I know some.

 

[GordianKnot]

*DBM

 

[Kapua]

He returned to her house after he claims he last saw her.

He leaves with her phone.

If a jury is willing to discount the lies, the fake texts and phone calls, and the fact that Kelsey’s phone is at the same location as PF’s during this two day time period, then God bless them.

Lies mean something.

Cell phone data means something.

CCTV footage means something.

Deception means something.

If a juror wants to believe that KB was alive after the afternoon of the 22nd, they have to discount evidence to do that.

It’s there, and it would take willful ignorance to ignore it.

PF leaves KB's townhome with baby K and KB is not seen, nor is her actual voice heard by anyone, after Nov. 22. There's no camera footage, no voicemails, zip. PF doesn't report her missing after 10 days. When CB calls him, PF tells her that they broke up that morning. However, CB talked to KB twice that morning (Nov. 22), and she sounded "normal". Really, it's not going to take a jury of rocket scientists to figure this out, and PF isn't a sports superstar like OJ Simpson, except perhaps in his own mind. MOO

 

[nwmouse]

on the teeth thing.
imo it is pretty 'common" for people who work with large animals to have had terrible mouth trauma from accidents etc.
I think its likely PF has had a major dental trauma event prior, likely has false teeth and the teeth are trophys to show off .
cowboys tend to treat accidents as badges of honour. ( yes I am stereotyping!)

if it comes back the dna in those teeth is not a frazee………..hes in big big doggy do

moo

The teeth found at the Ranchette are puzzling.

At first I thought they were baby teeth collected by PF's mother, some parents do keep the baby teeth from their kids. But these are adult teeth - molars?

Does anyone know if the roots are attached or did they break off due to injury?

I mean surely most people would go to the dentist to have their teeth pulled, and don't dentists have to dispose of those teeth as hazardous waste and not give them to the person to take home to "collect"?

Or did the Frazee's just do it the old fashioned way and have a glug of whiskey, then yank out a bad molar with a pair of pliars at home?

Its quite strange, imho, although it likely has zero to do with the murder of KB unless there are teeth amongst the ones found in envelopes that contain her DNA.

edited by me for spelling
moo

 

[MassGuy]

PF leaves KB's townhome with baby K and KB is not seen, nor is her actual voice heard by anyone, after Nov. 22. There's no camera footage, no voicemails, zip. PF doesn't report her missing after 10 days. When CB calls him, PF tells her that they broke up that morning. However, CB talked to KB twice that morning (Nov. 22), and she sounded "normal". Really, it's not going to take a jury of rocket scientists to figure this out, and PF isn't a sports superstar like OJ Simpson, except perhaps in his own mind. MOO

Exactly. If they can’t put those pieces together, then they are on a PF level of stupid.

It’s like a fricken two piece puzzle.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if that noxious smell from burning plastic would be more powerful than a burning body. Imo

That is a thought I have as well MsB. If the plastic melted down around KB <forming the heap KK mentions> it might well have encapsulated some of the other odors including burning hair, etc.

I literally just got cold chills typing the reply, I'm so sorry for KB and her family not only for her murder but also as to how egregious her remains were treated. I'm so glad they added those extra charges to PF!

 

[acutename]

I completely agree, and it’s been bothering me too. I mean, I’ve dropped small pieces of food in the kitchen and not known or been able to figure out which direction it rolled. I’m just surprised with all going on, he’d notice and with such detailed awareness. Maybe he looked around afterwards, once noticing she had a tooth out.

horrific; cruel beyond cruel.

 

[GordianKnot]

Exactly. If they can’t put those pieces together, then they are on a PF level of stupid.

It’s like a fricken two piece puzzle.

BBM:

Idle conjecture and speculation only:

I wonder how many minutes it would take PF to complete that puzzle assembly correctly?

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

2 hours 20 away??

Maybe.

 

[MsBetsy]

That is a thought I have as well MsB. If the plastic melted down around KB <forming the heap KK mentions> it might well have encapsulated some of the other odors including burning hair, etc.

I literally just got cold chills typing the reply, I'm so sorry for KB and her family not only for her murder but also as to how egregious her remains were treated. I'm so glad they added those extra charges to PF!

Yes, it is just sickening, to say the least.
Another thing I mentioned in a previous post, is what those clumps of hardened plastic may contain. Once cooled, it seems there would be a good chance that there might be bone fragments or other burned parts merged together with those pieces of plastic. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, it is just sickening, to say the least.
Another thing I mentioned in a previous post, is what those clumps of hardened plastic may contain. Once cooled, it seems there would be a good chance that there might be bone fragments or other burned parts merged together with those pieces of plastic. Imo

I think that’s entirely possible.

We know they recovered those clumps, but we don’t know what the lab results have to say about them.

They could provide yet another nail in his coffin.

That’s quite a few nails by my count.

 

[windrower]

All they have is the time and date KB was last seen on store video. That isn't conclusive evidence she died within two hours at that point in time nor is it proof PF murdered her.

I seriously doubt PF testifies but all the defense has to do is point out that cell phone data isn't infallible and neither is PF's memory.

I don't know who Dad with a phone is but all it takes is one member of the jury to question and have doubts.

JMO

You aren't the only one speaking to evidence, whether conclusive or not.

Your post highlights what happens when we start to parse out individual pieces of evidence, especially circumstantial evidence. Can this or that specific circumstance be explained away by something innocent? Maybe.

But when there is a plethora of it, like in this case, well, belief in truth has to be suspended to believe that a perpetrator (PF) is so darn unlucky as to have had all those pesky circumstances befall him at the same time his significant other goes missing, and is presumed dead.

It is the totality of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, in a certain time frame that leads to a guilty verdict, and not examining each piece of evidence as a stand-alone act in its own timeline. Using the totality of evidence is called building a case, and before DNA and surveillance cameras, circumstantial evidence is pretty much what LE gathered and used to convict. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence.

I also believe, based on following cases for years, that LE has tons more evidence than what we've seen so far.

I believe they have beyond verified where KK was at the time of KB's death. I believe they know when KB died. Maybe not the exact moment, but pretty darn close.

I believe they will lay out a time line of activity for everyone connected in any way to KB's death--prior, during, and after--and I'm hoping LE goes in guns blazing, so to speak, and annihilates PF and anyone who helped\aided\assisted\covered up\muddied the waters surrounding this crime--the brutal murder of a young innocent mother.

 

[acutename]

on the teeth thing.
imo it is pretty 'common" for people who work with large animals to have had terrible mouth trauma from accidents etc.
I think its likely PF has had a major dental trauma event prior, likely has false teeth and the teeth are trophys to show off .
cowboys tend to treat accidents as badges of honour. ( yes I am stereotyping!)

if it comes back the dna in those teeth is not a frazee………..hes in big big doggy do

moo

in the picture with his former girlfriend (Vanessa Curie), his teeth look in tact but I am not sure that I could tell dentures from the real thing

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ick-frazee-monster-ex-girlfriend-says-n980721

 

[girlhasnoname]

You aren't the only one speaking to evidence, whether conclusive or not.

Your post highlights what happens when we start to parse out individual pieces of evidence, especially circumstantial evidence. Can this or that specific circumstance be explained away by something innocent? Maybe.

But when there is a plethora of it, like in this case, well, belief in truth has to be suspended to believe that a perpetrator (PF) is so darn unlucky as to have had all those pesky circumstances befall him at the same time his significant other goes missing, and is presumed dead.

It is the totality of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, in a certain time frame that leads to a guilty verdict, and not examining each piece of evidence as a stand-alone act in its own timeline. Using the totality of evidence is called building a case, and before DNA and surveillance cameras, circumstantial evidence is pretty much what LE gathered and used to convict. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence.

I also believe, based on following cases for years, that LE has tons more evidence than what we've seen so far.

I believe they have beyond verified where KK was at the time of KB's death. I believe they know when KB died. Maybe not the exact moment, but pretty darn close.

I believe they will lay out a time line of activity for everyone connected in any way to KB's death--prior, during, and after--and I'm hoping LE goes in guns blazing, so to speak, and annihilates PF and anyone who helped\aided\assisted\covered up\muddied the waters surrounding this crime--the brutal murder of a young innocent mother.

^THIS especially your last paragraph!

 

[acutename]

The prosecution can't prove what day KB was killed and in a case without a body or a murder weapon it will allow the defense to point the finger at KK no matter where her phone may have been.

I wish I shared your confidence the DA has plenty of incriminating evidence already to convict PF on a charge of premeditated first degree murder. I think they are spending three months combing through a landfill because they don't have it.

JMO

if KB calls people (CB) every day per her phone records and then does not, I think that becomes powerful evidence that she is gone

 

[nwmouse]

Here's a link - I think it was also in one of the court documents.
Cops find bags of adult teeth at Patrick Frazee’s property in search for Kelsey Berreth: Documents

According to the Denver Post:

Five teeth, potentially bloody sheet found in search of Patrick Frazee’s home, court records show – The Denver Post

They also found “four teeth in a small envelope” and a fifth tooth held separately.

I'm still looking through the search warrant link to look for further details about the teeth they found.
Colorado Judicial Branch

Some reports are saying bags "full of teeth" so were more than 5 found or is just a slight exaggeration on the part of the media?

moo

 

[MyBelle]

PF leaves KB's townhome with baby K and KB is not seen, nor is her actual voice heard by anyone, after Nov. 22. There's no camera footage, no voicemails, zip. PF doesn't report her missing after 10 days. When CB calls him, PF tells her that they broke up that morning. However, CB talked to KB twice that morning (Nov. 22), and she sounded "normal". Really, it's not going to take a jury of rocket scientists to figure this out, and PF isn't a sports superstar like OJ Simpson, except perhaps in his own mind. MOO

None of what you list is evidence PF murdered KB. The only evidence they have that he killed KB and he used a ball bat is the testimony of KK, a liar who has a huge incentive to lie.

No body, no murder weapon has been found. LE didn't even recognize the townhouse was a crime scene for several days.

There were no rocket scientists on the Casey Anthony jury, either. Just average people who wanted proof of murder and who was responsible. They didn't get it. Even the judge in that trial wasn't convinced it was murder because there was zero evidence the child had a history of abuse.

Casey Anthony Juror: 'Sick to Our Stomachs' Over Not Guilty Verdict

Casey Anthony judge: She probably accidentally killed her daughter - CNN

JMO

 

[MemPat]

Yes, it is just sickening, to say the least.
Another thing I mentioned in a previous post, is what those clumps of hardened plastic may contain. Once cooled, it seems there would be a good chance that there might be bone fragments or other burned parts merged together with those pieces of plastic. Imo

I believe!

 

[GordianKnot]

According to the Denver Post:

Five teeth, potentially bloody sheet found in search of Patrick Frazee’s home, court records show – The Denver Post

They also found “four teeth in a small envelope” and a fifth tooth held separately.

I'm still looking through the search warrant link to look for further details about the teeth they found.
Colorado Judicial Branch

Some reports are saying bags "full of teeth" so were more than 5 found or is just a slight exaggeration on the part of the media?

moo

I remember reading about the envelope with 4 teeth on the warrant.
Envelope was the word used on the official LE doc.
I don't recall reading about "bags of teeth" being taken into evidence anywhere on the official warrant info.

MSM may be taking dramatic liberties. Again. Qu'elle surprise.

JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

if she calls people (CB) every day per her phone records and then does not, I think that becomes powerful evidence that she is gone

Or it is powerful evidence she doesn't want to talk to anyone. Adults can disappear themselves and many have done it which is why LE hesitates to get involved right away. KK's use of KB's cellphone was intended to delay LE getting involved and it worked.

JMO