CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[Ccging]

SABBM

Ita.
At the end of her life, Kelsey was surround by vile people.
Outside of her family , and some close friends.
There hasn't been a lot said in msm about Kelsey's' friends, and if they've given any statements ?

From following other true crime cases here, it takes an enormous amount of heat to destroy a body down to ash and fragments.
I'm betting on a fair amount of evidence left by an incompetent PF .
If Kelsey is there --- I'm confident they'll find intact remains at the landfill.
My condolences to her family for having to deal with the unspeakable acts of PF & Co.

It seems as though sadly Kelsey did not have many close friends in CO, aside from the one that spoke that lived with her while she was pregnant. She did not speak kindly of PF.

A few friends she went to middle/high school with were on Dateline.

From what I’ve heard KB’s family is private and has asked people (her friends/acquaintenaces) to try to stay out of MSM. They have respected the family’s request, which I respect.

I’m hopeful we see a few of her DOSS co-workers or friends from the rodeo circuit testify at trial.

 

[ab01]

What does this case have to do with the Watts case? Colorado? Yet CW has been mentioned in literally hundreds of posts at this point. The poster was specifically addressing the issues of the Anthony jury. I found the information useful since most people believe Anthony was guilty, yet the jury returned a complete acquittal. WS is a discussion, not an echo chamber. If posters are certain PF is guilty, like they believed Anthony is guilty, how do you avoid such an acquittal?

Totally different case, totally different evidence...

 

[gngr~snap]

Thanks for the tutorial, Hatch! The things I learn here
I still question why would he take KB? Why not one of his friends, like the ones at the dump? Or better yet, RS, his very "best" friend. It makes me so sad when I think of KB's last hours. How tired she must have felt, yet still trying to help that despicable creature

IMO he was trying to get her to invite him to stay the night with her.
Hoping she would give in rather than make the drive to drop him off and drive back to her place.
His plan probably was to kill her that night- at her place.
Moo

 

[ab01]

Civil liability is not grounds for a witness to claim 5th amendment protection on a witness stand in a criminal hearing. FWIW

 

[Auntie Cipation]

IMO he was trying to get her to invite him to stay the night with her.
Hoping she would give in rather than make the drive to drop him off and drive back to her place.
His plan probably was to kill her that night- at her place.
Moo

I like this kind of thinking, but I can't seem to make the logistics work -- aren't the cattle closer to Florissant than to Woodland Park? Maybe I'm confused.

 

[GordianKnot]

What does this case have to do with the Watts case? Colorado? Yet CW has been mentioned in literally hundreds of posts at this point. The poster was specifically addressing the issues of the Anthony jury. I found the information useful since most people believe Anthony was guilty, yet the jury returned a complete acquittal. WS is a discussion, not an echo chamber. If posters are certain PF is guilty, like they believed Anthony is guilty, how do you avoid such an acquittal?

Focusing on your specific question BBM:

• If you're DA May, you take full advantage of the fact that you have in PF the world's biggest moron. You carefully, methodically point out to the jury each and every neon flashing bread crumb PF dropped along the way that points in a direct, unwavering line to him as the killer.
• You obtain cooperation from someone PF, aka the world's biggest moron, solicited to commit the murder and who assisted him after the murder in cleaning the crime scene, destroying evidence, and disposing of the murder victim's body; namely, you make a deal with KK and put her up on the stand to give her damning testimony.
• You lay out the plethora of evidence you've gathered including but not limited to: cell phone pings, tracking data, texts, blood, DNA, video footage, receipts, witness testimony, PF's lying statements to CB and others, etc. (*This step alone will likely take several days, if not weeks, owing to the extreme moronicity of PF, who has fortunately left DA May a veritable treasure trove of damning evidence to present to a jury).
• You make sure you're extremely careful to select educated, bright, rational, logical individuals to sit on the jury, making liberal use of your peremptory challenges to ditch any irrational, dumb, conspiracy theorist, devil's advocate, and/or my-feelings-trump-the-facts types. Jury selection is probably the most important part of this trial, and the only area in which the prosecution has any vulnerability; however, I do think DA May will be alert and up to the task of making sure no fruit loops slip through the cracks.
• Also, while it's probably not absolutely essential to securing a conviction, if I were DA May, a baseball bat would definitely be used in my closing arguments. I would leave the jury with an indelible image of what KB's final horrific, painful, terrifying moments were like in that townhome.

I'm not at all concerned that we'll see an outcome in this case like in the CA case. In that case, there was no KK hanging her out to dry, more's the pity. Also, in that specific case, you had assembled one of the most incompetent juries ever known to mankind, aside from the OJ jury, which was hands-down the biggest bunch of halfwits ever assembled in a courtroom.

DA May impresses me as being an extremely bright, facile, skilled prosecutor who has shown by virtue of the sweetie beauty of a deal he made with KK that he is fully committed to one end: securing a conviction against the evil piece of excrement, PF.

DA May is going to swing for the fences in that courtroom, and he is going to hit the prosecution ball out of the park.

It's the public defender who's going to be asking to borrow the bat when the trial's over, just so that he can hit himself over the head repeatedly with it in frustration over his no-win case featuring the world's biggest dunderhead for a client.

Of course, there's always the possibility that when the public defender gets done conking himself over the head with the DA's bat, he may turn it on his depraved moron of a client, so there's that.

All of the Above: JMO.

 

[gngr~snap]

I agree. Sorry WS's for the graphic response. I worked at an animal shelter with a crematory onsite. From what I know there (no expert by any means) it takes a lot more than pouring gas into a water trough to get rid of anything but the hair and liquids. I have a feeling he did a half assed job on the burning like the rest of his mamma mooching-just enough gigs to get by loser life. What a terrible thing he did ruining so many lives beyond taking KB's and their daughters mother from her.

Yep. I agree 100%.
He didn't do enough research, but my thoughts also go to KK.
She should have known that what he was doing wasn't going to work. Maybe she did try to tell him.
Time will tell, but IMO, much of what she has said, while it may fit the timeline, was done to mislead the investigators.

Yes, I know she only gets a plea deal if she doesn't lie.
She seems like a pathological liar to me.
I have a feeling that when "the story" is told, she will be facing additional charges.
I don't believe that there was a body in the fire at all.
I do believe she wants people to think there was though. She said PF "scooped up" what was left.
It's not like he was cleaning out a fireplace, there still would have been skeleton based on the short duration of the burn and she definitely couldn't say she hadn't seen a body. Not unless she doesn't equate a skeleton to KB.
She knew that PF wanted KB dead. She was asked to do the deed and made 3 attempts to do so, she cleaned up the scene and participated in the burn, yet she got a plea deal.

I'm hoping what she got is more rope to hang herself with. I'm hoping that it was all a set up to nail her.
Then again these are professionals who probably would not do something like that, so I am in no way saying anything bad about them or slamming them.
If we ever find out the real story, I hope it will all click for me, because right now, I'm not able to understand how hmshe is a free woman.
Kk reminds me of the snake story!
Moo
For anyone who doesn't know what I am referring to:
"You Knew I Was a Snake"

 

[MassGuy]

Focusing on your specific question BBM:

• If you're DA May, you take full advantage of the fact that you have in PF the world's biggest moron. You carefully, methodically point out to the jury each and every neon flashing bread crumb PF dropped along the way that points in a direct, unwavering line to him as the killer.
• You obtain cooperation from someone PF, aka the world's biggest moron, solicited to commit the murder and who assisted him after the murder in cleaning the crime scene, destroying evidence, and disposing of the murder victim's body; namely, you make a deal with KK and put her up on the stand to give her damning testimony.
• You lay out the plethora of evidence you've gathered including but not limited to: cell phone pings, tracking data, texts, blood, DNA, video footage, receipts, witness testimony, PF's lying statements to CB and others, etc. (*This step alone will likely take several days, if not weeks, owing to the extreme moronicity of PF, who has fortunately left DA May a veritable treasure trove of damning evidence to present to a jury).
• You make sure you're extremely careful to select educated, bright, rational, logical individuals to sit on the jury, making liberal use of your peremptory challenges to ditch any irrational, dumb, conspiracy theorist, devil's advocate, and/or my-feelings-trump-the-facts types. Jury selection is probably the most important part of this trial, and the only area in which the prosecution has any vulnerability; however, I do think DA May will be alert and up to the task of making sure no fruit loops slip through the cracks.
• Also, while it's probably not absolutely essential to securing a conviction, if I were DA May, a baseball bat would definitely be used in my closing arguments. I would leave the jury with an indelible image of what KB's final horrific, painful, terrifying moments were like in that townhome.

I'm not at all concerned that we'll see an outcome in this case like in the CA case. In that case, there was no KK hanging her out to dry, more's the pity. Also, in that specific case, you had assembled one of the most incompetent juries ever known to mankind, aside from the OJ jury, which was hands-down the biggest bunch of halfwits ever assembled in a courtroom.

DA May impresses me as being an extremely bright, facile, skilled prosecutor who has shown by virtue of the sweetie beauty of a deal he made with KK that he is fully committed to one end: securing a conviction against the evil piece of excrement, PF.

DA May is going to swing for the fences in that courtroom, and he is going to hit the prosecution ball out of the park.

It's the public defender who's going to be asking to borrow the bat when the trial's over, just so that he can hit himself over the head repeatedly with it in frustration over his no-win case featuring the world's biggest dunderhead for a client.

Of course, there's always the possibility that when the public defender gets done conking himself over the head with the DA's bat, he may turn it on his depraved moron of a client, so there's that.

All of the Above: JMO.

I agree. I also think a baseball bat will be a great prop, as it will help to capture the brutality of what PF did to Kelsey.

In order to demonstrate this, I’d love for the DA to use PF himself. This is unlikely though, as that would be murder.

On closing, I’d like the DA to hold up a shovel, in order to illustrate the proverbial grave that PF dig himself, courtesy of his moronicity (I don’t care if that’s an actual word or not).

 

[gngr~snap]

I like this kind of thinking, but I can't seem to make the logistics work -- aren't the cattle closer to Florissant than to Woodland Park? Maybe I'm confused.

Honestly I don't know. It seemed like she had to do a fair amount of backtracking that night.
I may have read the article wrong.
I'll see if I can find it again.
Moo

ETA: It was a tweet.
"Went to WP Walmart to get meds, then back to Florisasnt to give him meds"
Check out @SamKraemerTV’s Tweet: Sam Kraemer on Twitter

Travel time.
Ranch > Walmart
Walmart > Ranch
Ranch > KB
54 miles
1hr 18 min (or so)

 

[Oregon]

It seems as though sadly Kelsey did not have many close friends in CO, aside from the one that spoke that lived with her while she was pregnant. She did not speak kindly of PF.

A few friends she went to middle/high school with were on Dateline.

From what I’ve heard KB’s family is private and has asked people (her friends/acquaintenaces) to try to stay out of MSM. They have respected the family’s request, which I respect.

I’m hopeful we see a few of her DOSS co-workers or friends from the rodeo circuit testify at trial.

One of the signs of abuse is the abuser isolating the victim from old friends and family and preventing them from developing friendships.

 

[MassGuy]

One of the signs of abuse is the abuser isolating the victim from old friends and family and preventing them from developing friendships.

That’s absolutely true, and PF doing that, wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

I’m not sure that happened here though, or if it did, to what extent that was the case.

We know that Kelsey was quiet and reserved, and the fact that she was so far from home (Washington), and lived alone, means that he may not have had to isolate her.

Circumstances, and Kelsey’s personality, may have done that work for him.

 

[susiQ]

I agree. I also think a baseball bat will be a great prop, as it will help to capture the brutality of what PF did to Kelsey.

In order to demonstrate this, I’d love for the DA to use PF himself. This is unlikely though, as that would be murder.

On closing, I’d like the DA to hold up a shovel, in order to illustrate the proverbial grave that PF dig himself, courtesy of his moronicity (I don’t care if that’s an actual word or not).

I think "moronicity" should be added to the English Lexicon with a picture of PF next to it, in his green striped jumpsuit and pink handcuffs

 

[gngr~snap]

It just hit me, did we ever hear what the name of the over the counter medication KB bought at Walmart that night?

Are there any larger gas station chains or truck stops that she would have passed on her way to the Woodland Park Walmart?
Where I live, most gas stations and the truck stop carry several medications, they are usually only a dose or two though.
I'm wondering if she was told to "go to Walmart " and complied because that is where PF told her to go.
Did he want her to go there specifically to get her on camera there alone in the middle of the night with her baby?
(To back up his claims that she was a bad mom?)
Was he planning to harm her when she returned?
Had she just stopped at the first place she came to what would have happened?
Or did SHE CHOOSE to go to Walmart knowing that it might be a safer place to go so late at night because SHE knew they had cameras?
Hmm...
Thinking. . . .
Moo

Adding to post.
Open 24 hours
Were they open the night before Thanksgiving?
Florissant Gas and Convenience
2839 US-24, Florissant, CO 80816
(719) 748-8080
Google Maps
Shared route
From 1713 Wildhorn Rd to Florissant Gas and Convenience via Wildhorn Rd.
4 min (1.4 mi)
4 min in current traffic
1. Head south on Wildhorn Rd
2. Turn right to stay on Wildhorn Rd
3. Turn right onto Costello Ave
4. Turn left onto US-24 E
5. Arrive at location: Florissant Gas and Convenience
For the best route in current traffic visit Google Maps

 

[GordianKnot]

I agree. I also think a baseball bat will be a great prop, as it will help to capture the brutality of what PF did to Kelsey.

In order to demonstrate this, I’d love for the DA to use PF himself. This is unlikely though, as that would be murder.

On closing, I’d like the DA to hold up a shovel, in order to illustrate the proverbial grave that PF dig himself, courtesy of his moronicity (I don’t care if that’s an actual word or not).

BBM:

I do love your shovel prop idea, Massy! I absolutely agree that it would be a powerful aid to the closing arguments.

I'd also love to see DA Dan bring in a rope, and use it to demonstrate how Cowboy Pat has adroitly managed to securely lasso the knot around his own neck. I might throw in a line like, "Way to go, Slick" at the end, too, just to highlight PF's moronicity (*moronicity is a Gordian term vs. an actual word, but usage here on PF's thread is allowed).

Given all of these useful visual aids we're coming up with, it may be a good idea for the prosecution to go ahead and cart all of said props into the courtroom in, say, a black plastic tote thingy with silver handles, because, hey, once you empty that out, you can also use the black tote thingy to drive home PF's utter PFery to the jury. It's a dual-purpose tool for the DA.

JMO.

 

[Julia966]

It just hit me, did we ever hear what the name of the over the counter medication KB bought at Walmart that night?

Are there any larger gas station chains or truck stops that she would have passed on her way to the Woodland Park Walmart?
Where I live, most gas stations and the truck stop carry several medications, they are usually only a dose or two though.
I'm wondering if she was told to "go to Walmart " and complied because that is where PF told her to go.
Did he want her to go there specifically to get her on camera there alone in the middle of the night with her baby?
(To back up his claims that she was a bad mom?)
Was he planning to harm her when she returned?
Had she just stopped at the first place she came to what would have happened?
Or did SHE CHOOSE to go to Walmart knowing that it might be a safer place to go so late at night because SHE knew they had cameras?
Hmm...
Thinking. . . .
Moo

Adding to post.
Open 24 hours
Were they open the night before Thanksgiving?
Florissant Gas and Convenience
2839 US-24, Florissant, CO 80816
(719) 748-8080
Google Maps
Shared route
From 1713 Wildhorn Rd to Florissant Gas and Convenience via Wildhorn Rd.
4 min (1.4 mi)
4 min in current traffic
1. Head south on Wildhorn Rd
2. Turn right to stay on Wildhorn Rd
3. Turn right onto Costello Ave
4. Turn left onto US-24 E
5. Arrive at location: Florissant Gas and Convenience
For the best route in current traffic visit Google Maps

Tums, I believe. PF had a tummy ache.

 

[PrairieWind]

That’s absolutely true, and PF doing that, wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

I’m not sure that happened here though, or if it did, to what extent that was the case.

We know that Kelsey was quiet and reserved, and the fact that she was so far from home (Washington), and lived alone, means that he may not have had to isolate her.

Circumstances, and Kelsey’s personality, may have done that work for him.

I sort of thought that Kelsey maybe just didn't have many close friends of her own because she didn't have time. Between taking care of a baby and work and two hour commute, she probably just didn't have a lot of opportunity to meet friends. I'm sure she had close work friends, but they probably mostly lived in Pueblo. Other than that, her friends were probably PF's friends. Her work friends are probably just keeping out of the media.

 

[Seattle1]

It just hit me, did we ever hear what the name of the over the counter medication KB bought at Walmart that night?

Are there any larger gas station chains or truck stops that she would have passed on her way to the Woodland Park Walmart?
Where I live, most gas stations and the truck stop carry several medications, they are usually only a dose or two though.
I'm wondering if she was told to "go to Walmart " and complied because that is where PF told her to go.
Did he want her to go there specifically to get her on camera there alone in the middle of the night with her baby?
(To back up his claims that she was a bad mom?)
Was he planning to harm her when she returned?
Had she just stopped at the first place she came to what would have happened?
Or did SHE CHOOSE to go to Walmart knowing that it might be a safer place to go so late at night because SHE knew they had cameras?
Hmm...
Thinking. . . .
Moo

The receipt from Walmart was located inside KB's vehicle, and entered into evidence. I don't recall if the search warrant itemized the purchase but I believe preliminary hearing testimony confirmed purchase of stomach related purchase.

Woodland Park Walmart is open 24 hours, whereas the gas stations near Franch most likely were not open at the hour KB went shopping, or didn't carry what she was looking for. MOO

https://www.walmart.com/store/3805/woodland-park-co/search

 

[Hatch]

A

I agree. I also think a baseball bat will be a great prop, as it will help to capture the brutality of what PF did to Kelsey.

In order to demonstrate this, I’d love for the DA to use PF himself. This is unlikely though, as that would be murder.

On closing, I’d like the DA to hold up a shovel, in order to illustrate the proverbial grave that PF dig himself, courtesy of his moronicity (I don’t care if that’s an actual word or not).

Adding to : candles , sweater, your bat, baby wipes,trash bags, tote, 5 gallon container of gasoline, your shovel, some used motor oil, a long handled scoop and a 100 gallon metal trough to place it all in plus all the items we do not know that came out of KB condo. Seems like quite a bit of tangible items the jury would have to look at, even if they are not the actual items used they would be impressionable.
If KK was on trial her list would be just as long.

 

[SandyQLS]

It wasn't the time or place and SF had already spoken to the investigators = unethical.

JMO

You are correct.

 

[MassGuy]

You are correct.

Just because the defense calls something “unethical,” does not make it so.

SF could have testified to what PF said on the phone call, that occurred minutes after he likely murdered Kelsey.

She knows when PF arrived for Thanksgiving, his demeanor, KK’s presence over the past couple months, and plenty of other relevant information.

And this:

NEW: explosive info as DA Dan May states that Patrick Frazee's mom, Sheila, saw the "burning of the black tote' implying #KelseyBerreth 's body was burned after she was murdered and that the body was in tote. Judge will decide whether or not Sheila Frazee will testify after lunch

Carol McKinley on Twitter

Ultimately, the judge decided that the prosecution could present the desired evidence, using alternate means.

What is unethical, is protecting a murderer. Hopefully, she does the right thing at trial.