CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[Hatch]

Yeah, I agree. She seemed pretty savvy.

Fortunately, what she had, PF didn’t have.

At all.

I concur, she was doing some of her homework definitely the brains of the duo.
Adding: A woman to be leary of.

 

[Hatch]

Thinking back when KK told her hubby she had lost her phone coinciding with PF turning his over to LE. Do we know what happened to her phone she says she lost? She stated she burned a burner phone and KB's at her house in the front yard. I hope that phone shows up in court, apparently CBI asked for her to tell them where the aluminum bat was I am hoping they confiscated that original phone.

 

[MemPat]

Yup. The camera doesn’t lie.

<modsnip>

Technology is going to play a major role here.

I love watching trial testimony from cell phone techs when the map with the pings is interspersed with video of the perp that verifies the locations.

It's also fun to see video of perps purchasing burner phones.

As much as I'd like to see cowboy plead guilty, I'd hate to miss those moments!

 

[katydid23]

Definitely. At this point though, all we have is CB’s account of the event.

It’s good enough for me, but there will certainly be more than her word when it comes to trial.

There will be a paper trail.

I don’t believe that CB would make up something that would be so easy to disprove

 

[susiQ]

Today, on g-mail, I got an e-mail from Google summarizing my February timeline. I checked it out and was freaked out. Google can track you by having your phone in your presence. For example, one day I took my mother out to eat and then went to the mall. It tracked the miles from my home to the restaurant, how long I was in the restaurant, and then it pinpointed the exact store that I was in at the mall. I was shocked. It goes back years. If you have a computer and are logged in to Google, then you can go to the link and look at a map, day by day of where you have been. It even records when you are stopped and when you are moving. I live in a "dead zone." My cell phone won't work here, yet Google still could track me through dead zones. I have a feeling LE knows every move made by KB and PF for a very long time without even having to go through Google's corporate. If they go through Google, they can get it for anyone. Log in to your Google account and then follow this link. You will be amazed. google.com/maps/timeline

Well, I logged in and was "amazed" to find I have NO location history. I do recall disabling that feature on my new phone a couple years ago. So....that takes me back to there not being any location data for KK surrounding the time of KB's murder. I'm not suggesting she was there, but I find it rather odd that she just "happened" to have it turned off during the time in question. Makes me go "Hmmmmmm"

 

[MassGuy]

Well, I logged in and was "amazed" to find I have NO location history. I do recall disabling that feature on my new phone a couple years ago. So....that takes me back to there not being any location data for KK surrounding the time of KB's murder. I'm not suggesting she was there, but I find it rather odd that she just "happened" to have it turned off during the time in question. Makes me go "Hmmmmmm"

She had it for some dates, and not for others.

It seems pretty clear that she intentionally erased/disabled it.

Likely just before she went to Colorado to “clean.”

 

[Crooked Chicken]

he cannot testify

I must have missed something. Who can't testify and why not? Thanks in advance.

 

[susiQ]

BBM: Right. Let's all picture in our mind's eye how this would play out come trial time:

"Mr. May, is the state ready to call its first witness?"
"We are, Your Honor."
"Proceed."
"Your Honor, the state calls its first, last, and only witness, KK.
After the jury hears her testimony, the state intends to rest its case.
There will be no other evidence presented, as none is needed."

JMO.

I love sarcasm Thank you!!

 

[Seattle1]

Also I know some are questioning the validity of the abuse allegations at the hospital.

Imo I have seen no reason to indicate that CB for any reason would not be being truthful to the best of her knowledge.

How far this incident was pursued is anyone’s guess at this point imo.

I think like MG and others have indicated, we all know what PF is capable of.

I see no reason to doubt the things that CB has told LE, as she is very much a victim in this case.

MOEO

Edited: to clarify

I don't believe the Prosecutor will lack for witnesses about the hospital incident other than CB!

Seems to me they will have the deposition of nurse that contacted social services, and any hospital personnel that were present.

I also recall that PF was allegedly bragging about the same incident at his daughters first birthday party so you will have those witnesses as well.

Nope, I'm not worried about there being no supporting evidence for allegation of the hospital event. MOO

 

[Mom24]

I don't believe the Prosecutor will lack for witnesses about the hospital incident other than CB!

Seems to me they will have the deposition of nurse that contacted social services, and any hospital personnel that were present.

I also recall that PF was allegedly bragging about the same incident at his daughters first birthday party so you will have those witnesses as well.

Nope, I'm not worried about there being no supporting evidence for allegation of the hospital event. MOO

Anything that happened will be documented in the nursing notes. Given that it was less than 5 years ago, it'll all be there. When you are in a hospital the nurses take down everything that happens, every time they enter the room. They record subjective things (pt says they are feeling anxious) objective things (wound is clean and clear, pt seems to not be sleeping well and exhibits anxiety when spouse enters room) they assess (bp 12-/60, p 80, r 20, t 99.0. pt ambulatory w/out assistance down the hall 30 feet and back) and they make plans (will continue to ambulate pt, redress wounds in another hour, call attending physician to inquire about relief for anxiety and whether narcotics may be exacerbating). Having an interaction with anyone, pt or visitor, that would require social service intervention is going to be heavily documented in the hospital records and nursing notes. We document everything, down to how much fluid you take in and how much is excreted in some cases, a social service intervention would be in the records. Which is why it would be absolutely foolish and highly damaging for CB to have lied about it, in other words it's highly believable in that it would be easily disproved.

 

[Mom24]

Don’t you feel that if PF were to plead guilty, he would have done that by now? He already knows much of what LE has against him, right? He must think he can beat these charges? Or at least is willing to roll the dice? He doesn’t seem like the type of person who would want testimony and details to get out. Although I guess much would get out either way.

For PF there's nothing to lose by rolling the dice. When people plead guilty they often get stiffer penalties and sentencing than if they plead not guilty.
His attorney will also be pushing him to fight the charges, even if he's certainly guilty, because of all the notoriety and money involved, and because it's a challenge.
It's not about whether PF murdered KB any longer, it's about the whole story around it and whether they can make a jury like and connect with PF enough to give him a pass to kill someone. It's also about introducing reasonable doubt. My guess is they'll try to make CB look like a conniving abusive person who was suicidal. They'll make KK look like a manipulative other woman. And they'll make PF look like a dumb mama's boy who has always been at the mercy of the women in his life.

 

[Sgt.Devo]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

 

[ab01]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

Its very common for a defendant in a murder trial not to speak.

Even if he did I doubt it would be anything other than deflection and denial.

I'm not sure the prosecution is trying to mislead anyone, I think they are following the facts that they have been presented by investigators that followed evidence that they uncovered due to KK leading them where to look.

PF is way to involved and tangled up in location, fake texts and calls etc and more importantly the very specific timeline of the day of events and coverup for it to be as simple as a crazy ex frame job. MOEO

As to possible theories: I don't have any per say other than the facts of the case as we know them.

PF went to KB condo, Lied to police about the last time he saw KB.

KB was never heard from again after PF left KB condo that day.

PF lied to CB, Doss, investigators and many more people after that day.

There is a lot more details in the warrants, but thats the gist of PF undeniable involvement in my eyes

And Welcome to Websleuths!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

Welcome to Websleuths!

In the United States, as with any criminal case, he does not have to speak.

If it was that no firm conclusion could be made until a defendant spoke, no one would ever be found guilty?

This case has much circumstantial and direct evidence. We have seen evidence of much of it already.

Here at Websleuths, many of us enjoy using second and third level/order logical thinking to make sound conclusions and opinions.

ETA In addition, I would think that some of us have come across a case where our opinion here would be different if we were on a jury and had to follow jury rules and instructions.

ETA #2- for those interested, the Hart case live stream of the coroner's inquest begins in 2 and 1/2 hours

Moo

 

[justaparent]

The prosecution is no doubt on this case daily. I think that’s what it’s going to take. We have no idea how the defense will present itself and what alternative explanations they will offer for some of the scenarios. And how they will argue that some evidence isn’t valid.

It will all boil down to reasonable doubt. How will the defense back up its case with evidence and explanations of its own? They will tackle this as aggressively as the prosecution.

The media will be watching and reporting on both sides (although if trial takes too long some will lose interest). Attorneys on each side will likely get positive or negative publicity. I doubt anyone wants to be on that negative side.

We all have (differing) opinions but we sure don’t know all of the facts. I think there will be some huge developments during the trial — but that’s just my opinion.

 

[susiQ]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

There's one particular theory here that is based on facts. PF brutally murdered KB. His defense attorney may argue KK is the cray cray girlfriend that killed KB but we have yet to see any evidence THAT is the case. It's a theory too, and doesn't hold much water at this point given what IS known. Yes, KK is in serious need of psychological help as her elevator clearly doesn't go to the top, and we all despise her for her involvement and the part she played. IF a defense attorney manages to sway one jury member into the position of reasonable doubt with regard to PF's guilt, it does not change the evidence that proves his guilt. It would merely become a travesty of justice.
ETA: MOO and Welcome, Sgt Devo!

 

[Mom24]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

What postulated theories do you feel have no proof?
PF didn't lawyer up after he was faced with a crime, he lawyered up after his fiance and the mother of his baby went missing. Most recognize if your fiance and mother of an infant were missing you'd be organizing searches, calling people she knows, putting up missing posters and attending press conferences and the last thing you'd be doing is retaining a criminal lawyer.

 

[ajaylee]

A couple thoughts this morning.

PF's attorney has to do his best to defend an indefensible client. That's the way our system works. I think he knows 'winning' because of a single holdout juror is a long shot - and I suspect DA May would immediately go for a new trial if that happened.

What I think he can and will do is try to undermine KK's testimony - anything not supported by hard evidence - and hope to mitigate PF's sentence.

For example: based on the evidence we have seen (which is not all there is), I believe the defense could challenge the 'solicitation' charges. Do we actually have hard evidence - texts, for example - that PF solicited KK? Defense can claim that she was a jealous woman who made that part up, and that actually she was goading PF, encouraging him to kill her rival.

None of that would get PF off the hook for the murder, but it might lead to a slightly lighter sentence. I think the defense will try to paint a picture of two conniving people, the woman clearly the smarter and more determined of the two (she was making regular 800 mile rou2got off easy; PF was just her dummy puppet.

I don't know what the sentencing ranges in Colorado are for this kind of crime - and I don't know what kind of sentences are generally handed down for these crimes. It would be a big victory for PF (and a loss for justice) if PF gets less than a life sentence without possibility of parole.

My other thought, because I despise what this awful man did to KB - broke her heart, tore her life apart and then murdered her. It looks like he set her up in a particularly vicious way - letting her think maybe things were looking up between them.

Well, I think he got some payback for that four days before Christmas when he got arrested. Like KB, little did he know when he got up that morning what the day held for him. I'm sure he never dreamed that he has possibly laid eyes on the ranchette for the last time in his life. No warning, no 'goodbyes', and best of all, no bail.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

What postulated theories do you feel have no proof?
PF didn't lawyer up after he was faced with a crime, he lawyered up after his fiance and the mother of his baby went missing. Most recognize if your fiance and mother of an infant were missing you'd be organizing searches, calling people she knows, putting up missing posters and attending press conferences and the last thing you'd be doing is retaining a criminal lawyer.

Yes, when I see a thread that starts as a missing case where the fiance and or husband does not attend a press conference, and does not want his face appearing in the news, my second level logical thinking goes into effect along with my hinky meter as to why he does not want his face being shown in the media.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

A couple thoughts this morning.

PF's attorney has to do his best to defend an indefensible client. That's the way our system works. I think he knows 'winning' because of a single holdout juror is a long shot - and I suspect DA May would immediately go for a new trial if that happened.

What I think he can and will do is try to undermine KK's testimony - anything not supported by hard evidence - and hope to mitigate PF's sentence.

For example: based on the evidence we have seen (which is not all there is), I believe the defense could challenge the 'solicitation' charges. Do we actually have hard evidence - texts, for example - that PF solicited KK? Defense can claim that she was a jealous woman who made that part up, and that actually she was goading PF, encouraging him to kill her rival.

None of that would get PF off the hook for the murder, but it might lead to a slightly lighter sentence. I think the defense will try to paint a picture of two conniving people, the woman clearly the smarter and more determined of the two (she was making regular 800 mile rou2got off easy; PF was just her dummy puppet.

I don't know what the sentencing ranges in Colorado are for this kind of crime - and I don't know what kind of sentences are generally handed down for these crimes. It would be a big victory for PF (and a loss for justice) if PF gets less than a life sentence without possibility of parole.

My other thought, because I despise what this awful man did to KB - broke her heart, tore her life apart and then murdered her. It looks like he set her up in a particularly vicious way - letting her think maybe things were looking up between them.

Well, I think he got some payback for that four days before Christmas when he got arrested. Like KB, little did he know when he got up that morning what the day held for him. I'm sure he never dreamed that he has possibly laid eyes on the ranchette for the last time in his life. No warning, no 'goodbyes', and best of all, no bail.

Your post brings up something from an earlier poster who did their first first post today.

The post was talking about not having enough proof for conviction yet we were talking about such here.

And in response, I said there are many times that we think somebody here is guilty, but if I was on the jury, I'm not sure that I would have the same opinion to convict.

Case in point for me at this moment in time, is that will the solicitation charge will stick for the 3 solicitations for PF?

I think that some jurors may think that she was amenable to helping out in some way shape or form, and did it meet solicitation (vs./or was it "conspiracy"?)

As a juror, I would need to see the jury instructions first to see if he would be guilty of such and perhaps have more info and evidence as I do not know if it is like a contract for solicitation, e.g. somebody else has to receive something in return for it to be solicitation. (E.g Dan Markle case here)

Merely giving an example of an open mind to the poster who did their first post this morning and I cannot remember the name of that poster.

ETA- I'm still going with the opinion that he is guilty of the premeditated murder of KB, both opinion here and if I was a juror in court with a limited information that I have.