CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[MemPat]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

Welcome to Websleuths, Sgt.

May I say it would require some flawed logic to assume no firm conclusions could be drawn without words from the defendant since we rarely hear them speak?

Also how would a DA get a case to move forward if he/she didn't set forward some facts?

Why would he go to so much trouble to provide "good reading" for the press?

 

[MemPat]

You think the state is lying about the evidence they have?

The court held a preliminary hearing to determine if there was "proof evident" and "presumption great" that PF committed the crimes as charged and he could be held over for trial. Evidence was presented. The defense cross examined. Here is what the court ruled:

• Judge, citing statutes for proof evident presumption great hearing, says the people have established probable cause in both first-degree murder counts. Same for all three solicitation counts.
• Judge finds proof evident for tampering with evidence too. He’ll be held without bond. Judge asked defense to set trial or arraignment. Defense asks for arraignment, saying the DA’s Office just emailed 3,300 pages of discovery to him.
• Judge rules, PF will face trial on suspicion of 1st-degree murder and solicitation of murder in apparent beating death of KB.

CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

Hail to Gitana, who nails it every time!

 

[ab01]

Any prosecutor who wants to continue a career in that particular field would never pursue a case bc they only have enough evidence to present at a reasonable cause hearing and win it.

They want enough evidence to win a conviction, or at the very least know that they will likely have enough evidence to ensure a conviction.

The notion that the prosecution is somehow lying to the public and the judge to win a preliminary hearing is just plain false in my opinion. MOEO

 

[MassGuy]

HLN will have coverage of the arraignment on Friday.

#KelseyBerreth's fiancé is charged with first degree murder. He is expected to enter a plea on Friday. Watch for coverage on #HLN followed by the Special Report "Vanished: Kelsey Berreth's Nightmare" at 3pET.

HLN on Twitter

 

[Hatch]

We may not have hard evidence of his solicitation of the nurse, but we have very reliable knowledge that the nurse told someone about the solicitation well before the murder. And that someone also told someone else. I don't think the defense should go there.

IMO we have not seen all the evidence against PF, just enough for the judge to make a ruling and set no bond , I have a sneaky feeling the phone that KK said she lost holds the key to quite a bit of evidence if it has been procured.
I think we have not heard all the evidence from PF's phone.
I think we will all be dropping our jaws after we hear what all Dan May has to present to the court. If you recall we only know about the cell data from Nov. 22-25 from PF's phone, there is much more than that on his phone IMO. That galoot may have taken pics to send to KK. It will be a trial that will keep us on our toes IMO. PF knows what all is on his phone and that knowledge may persuade him to plea to keep it out of the public, I am hoping he does not plea because we are on the need to know WS site.

 

[Hatch]

@Sgt.Devo
Theory - a supposition or system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
There are many theories presented here on WS , some are out in left field a bit but most try to deduce theories relating to the facts presented as we come to know them. Most WS members will keep pushing you to read the facts, I hope you have read or take time to read all the documentation presented in Tippy's timeline.
Welcome to WS being the new kid on the block and all.

 

[Hatch]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

Updates, hopefully more news tomorrow. Day 45 already.

We sure do like us some Sam jam.

 

[Sgt.Devo]

@Sgt.Devo
Theory - a supposition or system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
There are many theories presented here on WS , some are out in left field a bit but most try to deduce theories relating to the facts presented as we come to know them. Most WS members will keep pushing you to read the facts, I hope you have read or take time to read all the documentation presented in Tippy's timeline.
Welcome to WS being the new kid on the block and all.

Cheers Hatch, I will. And thanks ALL for being so welcoming! Webseluths is an amazing site and i must say after today very informative one! Thanks again all!

 

[ab01]

@Sgt.Devo
Theory - a supposition or system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
There are many theories presented here on WS , some are out in left field a bit but most try to deduce theories relating to the facts presented as we come to know them. Most WS members will keep pushing you to read the facts, I hope you have read or take time to read all the documentation presented in Tippy's timeline.
Welcome to WS being the new kid on the block and all.

Very informative and welcoming post hatch! Love seeing people helping new members!

 

[ab01]

We sure do like us some Sam jam.

This guy is the best, I’ll be honest I’m not sure I have ever seen a better local journalist who seems to shine even brighter when the lights of the world were on him. Love that guy

 

[Hatch]

DBM

 

[k-mac]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

the cctv we already know of is pretty good confirmation of the speculated.
imo there is plenty more and it locks everybody into time lines and location.
with or without PF or kks self serving versions of events.

moo

 

[Uninformant]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

Welcome. Best wishes in your pursuit of questioning prevailing theories here.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Do you think PF (through his lawyers) would go and badmouth Kelsey (in addition to KK) in court as part of his defense? Wouldn't that indicate a motive? I think he'll probably stick to denial, regardless of the evidence.

I think the defense will paint Kelsey in a bad light, in part to provide a motive for an alternative theory of who murdered her. Really think the defense may throw out some outlandish stuff - reminiscent of the OJ glove or the Casey A throwing shade on her father. And they will do everything in their power to prove KK is a liar, and warp the timeline. Which of course, she’s given them a lot to work with. It will be an interesting trial.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I cant help thinking that a lot of theories on this thread are written without proof. PF hasn't commented yet? He did what most people should do when faced with a crime / allegations they have or haven't committed. He lawyered up.
What makes for good reading by the prosecution and press who might be at best misleading a possible fair and honest jury to assemble at trial does not prove his guilt now. I believe the prosecution have taken a massive gamble by cutting KK a deal. This could easily turn out to be a case KK's jealousy gone horrifically wrong & a cowboy framed by saddling up with a crazed ex lover who lies. The evidence could lead in that direction & none of can make any firm conclusions until the defendant speaks.

Welcome. Best wishes in your pursuit of questioning prevailing theories here.

I feel bad that the OP felt we weren’t listening. But, in all fairness, the OP did start out by saying that theories on the thread are without proof. By design, theories don’t HAVE proof. That’s why we discuss them here and shoot down or raise up each other’s theories with facts as we learn them. Sometimes we forget a fact or miss one or two, and folks on here set us straight. For me, that what I love about WS. I don’t need to be right. I want to hear what others think, know, and then listen and learn. And throw in my two cents worth here and there. Not trying to solve anything, just gain knowledge and discuss. But that’s just me.

ETA: I meant the above with the utmost respect.. I swear I’m here singing Kumbaya.

 

[ab01]

I always like to listen to alternative theories and plausible scenarios in all cases.

But what jumped out to me in this case was all the things that a normal human would do when they found out that the mother of their child was missing.

All those things that I would normally expect to be done, PF did the complete opposite in this case.

I keep thinking man if that was my child and the woman that I was supposed to have loved, what would I have done?

Even my own family members would probably be throwing me under the bus if I acted the way PF did.

There is just no way I can honestly say that this is a good guy who did nothing wrong.

He is a monster and I believe he will be proven as such!

He cares about nobody other than his own wants and needs!

From there I started to try to explain things away, but there is just too much to explain away.

He wanted her dead and he did it and feels absolutely no remorse about it by his actions on the days after he brutally killed her!

And that is just my own opinion!

But that is why I am so adamant in this case and I want justice for KB, Baby K and the entire B family.

ETA end rant and sorry if I offended anyone

 

[MassGuy]

I always like to listen to alternative theories and plausible scenarios in all cases.

But what jumped out to me in this case was all the things that a normal human would do when they found out that the mother of their child was missing.

All those things that I would normally expect to be done, PF did the complete opposite in this case.

I keep thinking man if that was my child and the woman that I was supposed to have loved, what would I have done?

Even my own family members would probably be throwing me under the bus if I acted the way PF did.

There is just no way I can honestly say that this is a good guy who did nothing wrong.

He is a monster and I believe he will be proven as such!

He cares about nobody other than his own wants and needs!

From there I started to try to explain things away, but there is just too much to explain away.

He wanted her dead and he did it and feels absolutely no remorse about it by his actions on the days after he brutally killed her!

And that is just my own opinion!

But that is why I am so adamant in this case and I want justice for KB, Baby K and the entire B family.

ETA end rant and sorry if I offended anyone

Yeah. From the date of that first press conference on, my eyes were on him.

I still hadn’t come to a conclusion as to what happened at that point, but if something nefarious occurred, I was more than confident that he did it.

He did things that I’d never seen before, atleast from an innocent man.

Didn’t report her missing. Didn’t help get the word out.

The emergence of KK, that arrest affidavit, and those search warrants, put evidence and facts behind his involvement in this.

I’m completely convinced of his guilt.

 

[Hatch]

Hail to Gitana, who nails it every time!

Hail Hail !

 

[acutename]

Wouldn't a third person's testimony be considered hearsay in court?

hearsay as to the underlying facts, but a third party can testify to what she was told. does not mean she was told "the truth," but she can say what she was told and when.

 

[acutename]

IMO we have not seen all the evidence against PF, just enough for the judge to make a ruling and set no bond , I have a sneaky feeling the phone that KK said she lost holds the key to quite a bit of evidence if it has been procured.
I think we have not heard all the evidence from PF's phone.
I think we will all be dropping our jaws after we hear what all Dan May has to present to the court. If you recall we only know about the cell data from Nov. 22-25 from PF's phone, there is much more than that on his phone IMO. That galoot may have taken pics to send to KK. It will be a trial that will keep us on our toes IMO. PF knows what all is on his phone and that knowledge may persuade him to plea to keep it out of the public, I am hoping he does not plea because we are on the need to know WS site.

pictures? ewwww.