Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[CDB]

Excellent 100th post! MOO

Thanks, it only took 9 years.

I find myself heavily involved in a few cases then I emotionally need to step back and take a break. I look up to all of you that remain engaged. You are troopers and I am grateful that so many of you are here day in and day out, fighting for the victims.

 

[Seattle1]

My guess is KL will loose her plea if this goes to trial.
I think she skirted on the edge of truths that can and will easily be proven false.

She didn’t realize how deeply the word truth meant! Truth means 100% true, not give or take a little here or there.

The plea deal did not happen in a vacuum!

If KK's word easily proven false, don't you think the CBI, FBI, and prosecutor would have discovered this when her account first verified?

We've heard KK's testimony, and at no time was it ever said that it only applies providing there is no trial. It doesn't work that way.

This isn't the DA's first rodeo...

 

[gitana1]

I can understand the concern and also the idea that she may have minimized her role in the crime, however, She did seek counsel prior to sharing of details. I would expect any lawyer that has a chance of not being disbarred or sued for malpractice. would have stressed that a plea is based on complete truth.

Does that mean that she did not lie or minimize, no. But I personally believe the wildness of the story underlines that she actually is sharing her complete knowledge. (keep in mind the bat, blindfold and candles was her relating what he said to her, not what she saw.)

It does no service to her that she actually knew the body was in the tote, but recounts, I do not know, but I assumed it could have been. It does no service to her that she lie about locations or times, since what trapped her in the first place was the cell records. Maybe it stretches credibility that she says she left clues hoping to get caught, but even that serves her no value and provides little wiggle room for the defense.

I would have expected that her lawyers worked very hard with her to share a factual recount that would make her plea unassailable. She went to them before she said anything other than, I was not involved. According to attached article she spoke to agents on Dec 17th and asked for counsel and said she would cooperate, yet it was the 20th before she shared her recounting. She had counsel from her first involvement and those lawyers would have known and expected the defense to confront her and dig for any inconsistency. They had 3 days to work with her to make sure her story was both true and as minimally incriminating as possible.

I also expect that DA May would have cross checked all of her story prior to accepting a plea and using said information as a basis to indict PF.

Many express concern about her deal and the idea that she is getting away with so much, which I understand and can agree with. However, what I see from the timeline is the case and almost all physical evidence is a result of the information she provided originally. Per attached article it was the evening of the 20th after KK's interview that police researched KB's apartment and began removing physical evidence, also suggesting that physical evidence became apparent due to the recounting of KK.

I always have concerns when a deal is made with a perpetrator. This, however, is often the case in the judicial system and I have faith that logic and reason will allow a jury to understand that.

Yes KK was involved, after all that is why she knows things, but also that her story matches the physical evidence and therefore regardless of her punishment it does not negate the involvement of PF.

Fingers crossed for logic and reason, but also imho.
Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

Enviably logical and reasonable. Excellent post. Wow!!

 

[gitana1]

My guess is KL will loose her plea if this goes to trial.
I think she skirted on the edge of truths that can and will easily be proven false.

She didn’t realize how deeply the word truth meant! Truth means 100% true, not give or take a little here or there.

You know the DA had to really vet her story before agreeing to a plea deal. I mean this is serious stuff. It's murder. They're not stupid and they wouldn't let a co-conspirator off the hook without something backing up her narrative.

The way the plea would fail is if she failed to continue to cooperate and/or failed to testify at trial or to testify to what she told investigators and the DA. So if she gets up there and changes her story, the plea would fail.

 

[MassGuy]

I can understand the concern and also the idea that she may have minimized her role in the crime, however, She did seek counsel prior to sharing of details. I would expect any lawyer that has a chance of not being disbarred or sued for malpractice. would have stressed that a plea is based on complete truth.

Does that mean that she did not lie or minimize, no. But I personally believe the wildness of the story underlines that she actually is sharing her complete knowledge. (keep in mind the bat, blindfold and candles was her relating what he said to her, not what she saw.)

It does no service to her that she actually knew the body was in the tote, but recounts, I do not know, but I assumed it could have been. It does no service to her that she lie about locations or times, since what trapped her in the first place was the cell records. Maybe it stretches credibility that she says she left clues hoping to get caught, but even that serves her no value and provides little wiggle room for the defense.

I would have expected that her lawyers worked very hard with her to share a factual recount that would make her plea unassailable. She went to them before she said anything other than, I was not involved. According to attached article she spoke to agents on Dec 17th and asked for counsel and said she would cooperate, yet it was the 20th before she shared her recounting. She had counsel from her first involvement and those lawyers would have known and expected the defense to confront her and dig for any inconsistency. They had 3 days to work with her to make sure her story was both true and as minimally incriminating as possible.

I also expect that DA May would have cross checked all of her story prior to accepting a plea and using said information as a basis to indict PF.

Many express concern about her deal and the idea that she is getting away with so much, which I understand and can agree with. However, what I see from the timeline is the case and almost all physical evidence is a result of the information she provided originally. Per attached article it was the evening of the 20th after KK's interview that police researched KB's apartment and began removing physical evidence, also suggesting that physical evidence became apparent due to the recounting of KK.

I always have concerns when a deal is made with a perpetrator. This, however, is often the case in the judicial system and I have faith that logic and reason will allow a jury to understand that.

Yes KK was involved, after all that is why she knows things, but also that her story matches the physical evidence and therefore regardless of her punishment it does not negate the involvement of PF.

Fingers crossed for logic and reason, but also imho.
Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

Wow! This has to be one of the best posts I’ve read on this case.

I couldn’t agree more with “fingers crossed for logic and reason.” This is a circumstantial case, but a circumstantial case can be incredibly powerful.

Body or not.

If the jury follows the evidence, and makes reasonable conclusions as to what the evidence tells us, then this animal will get what he deserves.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I can understand the concern and also the idea that she may have minimized her role in the crime, however, She did seek counsel prior to sharing of details. I would expect any lawyer that has a chance of not being disbarred or sued for malpractice. would have stressed that a plea is based on complete truth.

Does that mean that she did not lie or minimize, no. But I personally believe the wildness of the story underlines that she actually is sharing her complete knowledge. (keep in mind the bat, blindfold and candles was her relating what he said to her, not what she saw.)

It does no service to her that she actually knew the body was in the tote, but recounts, I do not know, but I assumed it could have been. It does no service to her that she lie about locations or times, since what trapped her in the first place was the cell records. Maybe it stretches credibility that she says she left clues hoping to get caught, but even that serves her no value and provides little wiggle room for the defense.

I would have expected that her lawyers worked very hard with her to share a factual recount that would make her plea unassailable. She went to them before she said anything other than, I was not involved. According to attached article she spoke to agents on Dec 17th and asked for counsel and said she would cooperate, yet it was the 20th before she shared her recounting. She had counsel from her first involvement and those lawyers would have known and expected the defense to confront her and dig for any inconsistency. They had 3 days to work with her to make sure her story was both true and as minimally incriminating as possible.

I also expect that DA May would have cross checked all of her story prior to accepting a plea and using said information as a basis to indict PF.

Many express concern about her deal and the idea that she is getting away with so much, which I understand and can agree with. However, what I see from the timeline is the case and almost all physical evidence is a result of the information she provided originally. Per attached article it was the evening of the 20th after KK's interview that police researched KB's apartment and began removing physical evidence, also suggesting that physical evidence became apparent due to the recounting of KK.

I always have concerns when a deal is made with a perpetrator. This, however, is often the case in the judicial system and I have faith that logic and reason will allow a jury to understand that.

Yes KK was involved, after all that is why she knows things, but also that her story matches the physical evidence and therefore regardless of her punishment it does not negate the involvement of PF.

Fingers crossed for logic and reason, but also imho.
Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

Enviably logical and reasonable. Excellent post. Wow!!

As a juxtaposition to this case, which has many similarities, the prosecutors in the Heather Elvis case, just got the second guilty verdict on the 2nd conspiracy for kidnapping, and also for kidnapping in a no body case. 30 years concurrent for both of the triangle people . They made no deals with either one of them.(GUILTY - Sidney Moorer RETRIAL for Kidnapping Heather Elvis, 9 Sept 2019 #4) went with kidnapping, versus murder. In that case, they did not have to do the deal with the devil and left themselves open for future murder charges.

 

[gitana1]

As a juxtaposition to this case, which has many similarities, the prosecutors in the Heather Elvis case, just got the second guilty verdict on the 2nd conspiracy for kidnapping, and also for kidnapping in a no body case. 30 years concurrent for both of the triangle people . They made no deals with either one of them.(GUILTY - Sidney Moorer RETRIAL for Kidnapping Heather Elvis, 9 Sept 2019 #4) went with kidnapping, versus murder. In that case, they did not have to do the deal with the devil and left themselves open for future murder charges.

Wow!!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wow!!

Yes, I thought well to as many of us did! I think a few years ago I sent you a question as to was this double jeopardy. Because I always thought that if it was the same event, it could not be charged as kidnapping, and then murder afterwards. I guess my understanding of the same event and or double jeopardy is not correct. I still need to educate myself on such as I would have thought the kidnapping would obviate them ever being charged with murder. Oops! Need to take this to the other thread.

 

[tmar]

As a juxtaposition to this case, which has many similarities, the prosecutors in the Heather Elvis case, just got the second guilty verdict on the 2nd conspiracy for kidnapping, and also for kidnapping in a no body case. 30 years concurrent for both of the triangle people . They made no deals with either one of them.(GUILTY - Sidney Moorer RETRIAL for Kidnapping Heather Elvis, 9 Sept 2019 #4) went with kidnapping, versus murder. In that case, they did not have to do the deal with the devil and left themselves open for future murder charges.

Both these cases were great to follow, with 30 years each for kidnapping, with no body.
As you state dixiegirl, no deals were made and both will be in prison for a long time.
Now we wait, for murder charges, down the track, I hope.

In Kelsey's case, KK has a deal, so probably will not spend many years in prison.
Perhaps here, the prosecutors felt a deal was essential to 'get' PF for life.
MOO.

 

[ilovechili]

In just four or so hours, it will be 37 days until when the former duo planning the murder of a young mother, lovers and liars are in the same county, courtroom, etc. I wonder if they will glare daggers at each other or moon eyes... I wonder if one will be able to feel the tension...

That is of course if the trial occurs when scheduled and over Halloween, a perfect time for these two monsters, ghouls, etc. Two proven liars.

Jmo.

 

[Seattle1]

Both these cases were great to follow, with 30 years each for kidnapping, with no body.
As you state dixiegirl, no deals were made and both will be in prison for a long time.
Now we wait, for murder charges, down the track, I hope.

In Kelsey's case, KK has a deal, so probably will not spend many years in prison.
Perhaps here, the prosecutors felt a deal was essential to 'get' PF for life.
MOO.

KK won't be sentenced until the end of PF's trial.

She reached an agreement to plead guilty to felony tampering charges -- a class 6 felony.

This carries a possible sentence range anywhere from probation to 18 months in prison.

If the judge decides there was an aggravating factor in the case, sentencing guidelines extend to a possible sentence of 3 years in prison.

Krystal Kenney pleads guilty to tampering charge, will testify against Frazee

 

[Tippy Lynn]

KK won't be sentenced until the end of PF's trial.

She reached an agreement to plead guilty to felony tampering charges -- a class 6 felony.

This carries a possible sentence range anywhere from probation to 18 months in prison.

If the judge decides there was an aggravating factor in the case, sentencing guidelines extend to a possible sentence of 3 years in prison.

Krystal Kenney pleads guilty to tampering charge, will testify against Frazee

December 2, 2019 - Monday

• KK Review is scheduled 11 am

Case #: D602019CR17

• Sentencing date for KK will be set during this hearing

 

[steeltowngirl]

I can understand the concern and also the idea that she may have minimized her role in the crime, however, She did seek counsel prior to sharing of details. I would expect any lawyer that has a chance of not being disbarred or sued for malpractice. would have stressed that a plea is based on complete truth.

Does that mean that she did not lie or minimize, no. But I personally believe the wildness of the story underlines that she actually is sharing her complete knowledge. (keep in mind the bat, blindfold and candles was her relating what he said to her, not what she saw.)

It does no service to her that she actually knew the body was in the tote, but recounts, I do not know, but I assumed it could have been. It does no service to her that she lie about locations or times, since what trapped her in the first place was the cell records. Maybe it stretches credibility that she says she left clues hoping to get caught, but even that serves her no value and provides little wiggle room for the defense.

I would have expected that her lawyers worked very hard with her to share a factual recount that would make her plea unassailable. She went to them before she said anything other than, I was not involved. According to attached article she spoke to agents on Dec 17th and asked for counsel and said she would cooperate, yet it was the 20th before she shared her recounting. She had counsel from her first involvement and those lawyers would have known and expected the defense to confront her and dig for any inconsistency. They had 3 days to work with her to make sure her story was both true and as minimally incriminating as possible.

I also expect that DA May would have cross checked all of her story prior to accepting a plea and using said information as a basis to indict PF.

Many express concern about her deal and the idea that she is getting away with so much, which I understand and can agree with. However, what I see from the timeline is the case and almost all physical evidence is a result of the information she provided originally. Per attached article it was the evening of the 20th after KK's interview that police researched KB's apartment and began removing physical evidence, also suggesting that physical evidence became apparent due to the recounting of KK.

I always have concerns when a deal is made with a perpetrator. This, however, is often the case in the judicial system and I have faith that logic and reason will allow a jury to understand that.

Yes KK was involved, after all that is why she knows things, but also that her story matches the physical evidence and therefore regardless of her punishment it does not negate the involvement of PF.

Fingers crossed for logic and reason, but also imho.
Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

Mic drop

CDB, that was a jawdropping, brilliant post!

ETA: I’d like to see Dan May use that in his opening statement at trial.

 

[MassGuy]

The "sweet beauty of a deal" is still contingent on KK telling the truth. I think DA May wants the truth as does everyone else. By now listing two public defender investigators as potential trial witnesses, I'd like to know that they uncovered in their investigation.

I've never believed the scented candles/baseball bat story or that PF told KK there was a tooth stuck in a vent that PF told her to retrieve or that PF attempted to burn the body on his property while his mother was home. That's all incredibly far-fetched, imo.

DA May knows the truth, and he’s looking for one thing: a conviction.

What’s the issue with the baseball bat story?

KK threw herself under the bus when she described those solicitation attempts, and two of those plots allegedly involved murder by blunt force trauma.

PF clearly had this method on his mind.

We have KK saying that PF told her he used a baseball bat, and probable blood splatter located on the fireplace.

Blood was also recovered from under the floorboards.

Additionally, the bathroom had blood in numerous locations, which seems to indicate a very bloody crime scene.

I’d be stunned if a baseball bat to the face, didn’t dislodge some teeth. I don’t see how that would be in any way surprising.

As for the fire, an accelerant and burned plastic were found.

Interestingly, SF planned to plead the Fifth when she was called to provide testimony as to this account.

Rather than sounding “far-fetched,” the physical evidence seems to corroborate this insanity.

It seems to corroborate all of it.

 

[MemPat]

DA May knows the truth, and he’s looking for one thing: a conviction.

What’s the issue with the baseball bat story?

KK threw herself under the bus when she described those solicitation attempts, and two of those plots allegedly involved murder by blunt force trauma.

PF clearly had this method on his mind.

We have KK saying that PF told her he used a baseball bat, and probable blood splatter located on the fireplace.

Blood was also recovered from under the floorboards.

Additionally, the bathroom had blood in numerous locations, which seems to indicate a very bloody crime scene.

I’d be stunned if a baseball bat to the face, didn’t dislodge some teeth. I don’t see how that would be in any way surprising.

As for the fire, an accelerant and burned plastic were found.

Interestingly, SF planned to plead the Fifth when she was called to provide testimony as to this account.

Rather than sounding “far-fetched,” the physical evidence seems to corroborate this insanity.

It seems to corroborate all of it.

It does, indeed.

The bat has always made sense to me and especially so when we saw crime scene investigators moving a ladder into Kelsey's condo and taking out a plastic covered rectangular object.

Call me clairvoyant but I believe that was sheetrock from the ceiling where blood spatter from a blunt object...like a bat...was slung after repeated hits.

 

[MassGuy]

It does, indeed.

The bat has always made sense to me and especially so when we saw crime scene investigators moving a ladder into Kelsey's condo and taking out a plastic covered rectangular object.

Call me clairvoyant but I believe that was sheetrock from the ceiling where blood spatter from a blunt object...like a bat...was slung after repeated hits.

Ha! I said the same thing at the time. I wasn’t sure of the weapon, but blunt force trauma made a hell of a lot of sense.

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #25 *ARREST*

 

[MemPat]

Ha! I said the same thing at the time. I wasn’t sure of the weapon, but blunt force trauma made a hell of a lot of sense.

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #25 *ARREST*

So you're the "spirit" that told my clairvoyant self about that sheetrock, MG? I'm good with that!

 

[ilovechili]

Did KK bring a ladder with her to clean, or a step stool, etc., I can't recall.

She carried all of these things from a nearby parking lot right?

Wasn't it a community center or something...?

Or did she get high areas, even normal ceilings, by standing on a chair or using a Swiffer mop?

Why would the mop end up at Ma's? Or is it unrelated and was blood or something from butchering maybe a fresh wild turkey for Thanksgiving...?

Hmm.

 

[Snowsnake]

IMO PF is, has, and will always be a lump motivated by pure hatred, revenge, and dominance. He is currently in a cage where he should be for the rest of his life. His only way to attack KL is this legal move. He may get nothing more than her slipping up and lose her plea deal. The idea of him doing life without parole and her walking free is eating him to the core. He wants to watch her sweat and lose her deal. The end will still be the same for PF. LWOP. But KL may be facing close to the same. They are very similar creatures.

 

[Seattle1]

He may get nothing more than her slipping up and lose her plea deal. The idea of him doing life without parole and her walking free is eating him to the core. He wants to watch her sweat and lose her deal.

^^SBM

Since the beginning, DA May said KK's plea deal would not be released to the public.

I'm curious about how/why you think KK's testimony against PF could cause her to lose her plea deal.

We heard her testimony already.

What question do you think PF defense could ask KK -- and that she's allowed to answer -- that would put her deal in jeopardy?