Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

You know the DA had to really vet her story before agreeing to a plea deal. I mean this is serious stuff. It's murder. They're not stupid and they wouldn't let a co-conspirator off the hook without something backing up her narrative.

The way the plea would fail is if she failed to continue to cooperate and/or failed to testify at trial or to testify to what she told investigators and the DA. So if she gets up there and changes her story, the plea would fail.

I have to ask, because I'm confused about something. You've said that DA May would have vetted KK's story BEFORE giving her that sweetie deal, yet, for some reason I had thought they agreed on a deal BEFORE she emptied her already empty brain of all she participated in and what all PF had done. Could you please clarify? Thanks!

 

[Love Never Fails]

^^SBM

Since the beginning, DA May said KK's plea deal would not be released to the public.

I'm curious about how/why you think KK's testimony against PF could cause her to lose her plea deal.

We heard her testimony already.

What question do you think PF defense could ask KK -- and that she's allowed to answer -- that would put her deal in jeopardy?

Number one. Were you in Woodland Park, Colorado on Thanksgiving Day?

 

[MassGuy]

Number one. Were you in Woodland Park, Colorado on Thanksgiving Day?

If she was, she wouldn’t be on that stand in the first place.

 

[Dave F.]

I just went back and read The Arrest Affidavit, Attachment A, Page 7, Items 56 snd 57 which explains that KK called MG from Las Vegas on December 14, 2018 to forewarn her that the FBI would be contacting her about the loan of the black car. KK did NOT instruct MG what to say, but after hearing about KB's disappearance on the news, MG went to her black car to check her pistol, found the round to be missing and then voluntarily called the FBI to say she wanted to cooperate.
The summary here is MOO
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...lication and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

 

[Love Never Fails]

I read the original arrest warrant and it stood out to me that MG said she and KKL switched vehicles in front of a Walmart in Idaho on Friday the 23rd so KKL could take a trip to CO. MG lied about needing a truck and that later came out. But KKL needed the VW. That’s why, when after MG heard about the killing of KB, she checked her gun which was in her car. Her gun had a bullet missing and one in the chamber which she never kept one in the chamber. And she notified the FBI.

Back to the date....unless MG and KKL both lied about the date of the vehicle switch, they switched vehicles on the 23rd, the day after Thanksgiving.

I wonder if LE has video of the switch at the Walmart? So many lies were told by KKL and her friends, it is hard to make sense out of it. But if that ONE part is true, then KKL wasn’t in Woodland Park on Thanksgiving Day. Now, she could be superhuman but I doubt that very much.

Those of you who studied the AW know there were no outgoing calls on KBs phone after about 12:30 or so on Thanksgiving until the day after, the 23rd. I also find that hard to believe that she wouldn’t make calls or have calls coming in. People use their cell phones constantly.

If KB wasn’t killed on Thanksgiving Day at the condo, she was certainly disabled somehow. Maybe kidnapped, driven somewhere, shot and dumped?

I know most of you still believe the bat story. I’m not there yet, as I don’t believe a word that comes out of KKLs mouth. But I could understand beaten, taken and shot, and where’s the bullet from Meghan’s gun?

Anyway, these are just my random thoughts. There are pieces that don’t fit for me. I am certain it finally will, some day.

 

[ilovechili]

Number one. Were you in Woodland Park, Colorado on Thanksgiving Day?

Or any day soon after even. The date of death is even just because it was the last time KB was seen or they believe heard from. Deals with no remains and yet they have every other detail down to teeth, a sweater and candles that PF TOLD KK?

Most of what people take as fact is straight from the mouth of KK.

They both know where her remains are imo.

Her deal is sealed. We only know part of it. There are also still search warrants not provided and the ones we have, although we know somewhat what was taken, we do not know what the results of tests were or if what was taken even turned out relevant.

It strikes me in how many cases Walmart video (they sure have it) has proven an allegation in umpteen cases right or wrong. Walmart plays into this case many times... The stomach medicine/receipt, Walmart, PF seeming to pose in Walmart in the baby aisle on Thanksgiving Day apparently with the baby, KK changing cars at Walmart, etc., etc. I think PF going to Walmart again later Thanksgiving Day if I remember right... Now I know and I would imagine most people know do not commit a crime and be SEEN at Walmart like buying a kidnap kit or something, duct tape, zip locks, etc. These people were almost at Walmart too much... Knowing cameras would show that...?

I don't know. Just early morning, first sip of coffee thoughts...

I too have been going back and rereading things...

Jmo.

 

[ilovechili]

I mean KK used other vehicles, had an aunt with, etc. on another occasion, supposedly there were burner phones but she deleted location data, but made sure a car exchange, etc. was at Walmart, camera store of the world inside and parking lot, duh. PF too. Creating a record, alibi, confusion... It does not make any sense... Hiding acts in one sense but purposely being seen on camera in another... BOTH of them.

Just saying...

What a convoluted fantastical soap opera/story...

I told someone about this case yesterday. I only covered probably 1/2 of it and she knew nothing about it. And even before I had told her the half, she was like what??? Huh??? Are you kidding me???

Jmo.

 

[Dave F.]

Chili is asking the burning question:
Will we see a WalMart security photo of KKL and MG exchanging vehicles, time stamped around 3:30 pm on November 23, 2018? Can we see those famous expired license plates in the shot?
Questions, lots of questions.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Chili is asking the burning question:
Will we see a WalMart security photo of KKL and MG exchanging vehicles, time stamped around 3:30 pm on November 22, 2018? Can we see those famous expired license plates in the shot?
Questions, lots of questions.

Dave, i
think you meant Nov 33rd. Doesn’t search warrant say the 23rd? Or was that a purposely error?
Chili feels like many of us do.

 

[Dave F.]

Dave, i
think you meant Nov 33rd. Doesn’t search warrant say the 23rd? Or was that a purposely error?
Chili feels like many of us do.

It was an error. I corrected it to the 23rd Thanks.

 

[CDB]

I have to ask, because I'm confused about something. You've said that DA May would have vetted KK's story BEFORE giving her that sweetie deal, yet, for some reason I had thought they agreed on a deal BEFORE she emptied her already empty brain of all she participated in and what all PF had done. Could you please clarify? Thanks!

I am not a lawyer, and I will guess gitana will respond, however I thought I may share my understanding of how this would occur.

My understanding is a plea would always be based on the value of what shared testimony can provide the prosecutor. Most often this starts with a proffer agreement, or sometimes called "queen for a day." This is when information is shared under the agreement that anything shared can not be used against the person sharing the information. This also gives the prosecutor the chance, and I would even say obligation, to verify the information provided on proffer.

This is on federal rules, however, I would expect Colorado to follow similar processes.
Criminal Defendant Proffer, Plea & Cooperation Agreements

DA May has thus far shown he is thorough and aggressive. In the first court appearance we heard that they verified some of the information provided such as the stain on the hay and locations of blood in the condo. I would say it is reasonable to think that all parts of KK's proffer were investigated, and that any areas that were in question would have had clarification prior to the plea agreement being drafted and accepted.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I am not a lawyer, and I will guess gitana will respond, however I thought I may share my understanding of how this would occur.

My understanding is a plea would always be based on the value of what shared testimony can provide the prosecutor. Most often this starts with a proffer agreement, or sometimes called "queen for a day." This is when information is shared under the agreement that anything shared can not be used against the person sharing the information. This also gives the prosecutor the chance, and I would even say obligation, to verify the information provided on proffer.

This is on federal rules, however, I would expect Colorado to follow similar processes.
Criminal Defendant Proffer, Plea & Cooperation Agreements

DA May has thus far shown he is thorough and aggressive. In the first court appearance we heard that they verified some of the information provided such as the stain on the hay and locations of blood in the condo. I would say it is reasonable to think that all parts of KK's proffer were investigated, and that any areas that were in question would have had clarification prior to the plea agreement being drafted and accepted.

Gitana could comment on this but I believe the proffer was drafted and accepted before she even gave her full and complete statement. She even lawyered up beforehand and had good counsel. I think it was all carried out very fast, before being fully vetted.

 

[MsJosie]

Chili is asking the burning question:
Will we see a WalMart security photo of KKL and MG exchanging vehicles, time stamped around 3:30 pm on November 23, 2018? Can we see those famous expired license plates in the shot?
Questions, lots of questions.

Do not get your hopes up on the Wal Mart security cameras catching the auto exchange. The cameras at WM and other stores are

1. Dummy cameras/do not work
2. Not able to take in a wide shot of the area
3. Not able to go much farther then 1/5 of the parking lot,
So the farther away from the store the less likely the
Camera will pick up anything
4. The tapes are NOT changed out like they are supposed
To be
5. The tapes are reused after 24 hours so all prior info is
Gone
6. Oh....cameras are working but no tapes are set in to
Make them working cameras

Who decides all this...management, security departments, and employees working that department that particular day.

BUT I hope I am wrong here and LE has some good footage.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Do not get your hopes up on the Wal Mart security cameras catching the auto exchange. The cameras at WM and other stores are

1. Dummy cameras/do not work
2. Not able to take in a wide shot of the area
3. Not able to go much farther then 1/5 of the parking lot,
So the farther away from the store the less likely the
Camera will pick up anything
4. The tapes are NOT changed out like they are supposed
To be
5. The tapes are reused after 24 hours so all prior info is
Gone
6. Oh....cameras are working but no tapes are set in to
Make them working cameras

Who decides all this...management, security departments, and employees working that department that particular day.

BUT I hope I am wrong here and LE has some good footage.

I think I will disagree, respectfully, with almost every single point that you have. Walmart doesn't have dummy cameras like other private corporations and governmental folks (Lueck case e.g.)

Walmart is very very very well-known within this community for having things that close a case and are very key. (e.g. Heather Elvis last week, and many others m o o)

They may not have sensitivity to reach out to get a shot of facial recognition for their entire parking lot, but they in do indeed are key as far as showing the travel of cars on many cases where the identity was picked up with in Walmart or afterwards.

They may not have a wide shot for each camera, but they have so many that they are put together. If you follow crime shows on television, it shows it again and again and again. M o o.

Your multiple comments about the tapes not going more than 24 hours, and the tapes being reused, that was probably 10 years ago.

These days everything is electronic. Walmart used electronics . They don't use tapes anymore moo. Walmart doesn't use tapes that are overwritten.

We have seen here many times that the video surveillance has from Walmart have been retrieved weeks afterwards.

Criminals should know better than to do stuff at Home Depot or Walmart, as they are the number one surveillance folks and Logistics folks.

Moo

 

[MsJosie]

I think I will disagree, respectfully, with almost every single point that you have. Walmart doesn't have dummy cameras like other private corporations and governmental folks (Lueck case e.g.)

Walmart is very very very well-known within this community for having things that close a case and are very key. (e.g. Heather Elvis last week, and many others m o o)

They may not have sensitivity to reach out to get a shot of facial recognition for their entire parking lot, but they in do indeed are key as far as showing the travel of cars on many cases where the identity was picked up with in Walmart or afterwards.

They may not have a wide shot for each camera, but they have so many that they are put together. If you follow crime shows on television, it shows it again and again and again. M o o.

Your multiple comments about the tapes not going more than 24 hours, and the tapes being reused, that was probably 10 years ago.

These days everything is electronic. Walmart used electronics . They don't use tapes anymore moo. Walmart doesn't use tapes that are overwritten.

We have seen here many times that the video surveillance has from Walmart have been retrieved weeks afterwards.

Criminals should know better than to do stuff at Home Depot or Walmart, as they are the number one surveillance folks and Logistics folks.

Moo

I did not say all Walmart’s nor all stores, but having worked for WM and other large stores I know this for a fact.

So we agree to disagree.

 

[susiQ]

I am not a lawyer, and I will guess gitana will respond, however I thought I may share my understanding of how this would occur.

My understanding is a plea would always be based on the value of what shared testimony can provide the prosecutor. Most often this starts with a proffer agreement, or sometimes called "queen for a day." This is when information is shared under the agreement that anything shared can not be used against the person sharing the information. This also gives the prosecutor the chance, and I would even say obligation, to verify the information provided on proffer.

This is on federal rules, however, I would expect Colorado to follow similar processes.
Criminal Defendant Proffer, Plea & Cooperation Agreements

DA May has thus far shown he is thorough and aggressive. In the first court appearance we heard that they verified some of the information provided such as the stain on the hay and locations of blood in the condo. I would say it is reasonable to think that all parts of KK's proffer were investigated, and that any areas that were in question would have had clarification prior to the plea agreement being drafted and accepted.

Thank you both for chiming in. Just wish I knew what exactly she gave them BEFORE they gave her that sweetie deal.

I understand a deal had to be made as much as I hate it in this case. But I can't help but feel there had to be something more "on the books" they could have charged her with given her level of complicity in this conspiracy. I know she didn't swing the bat, but she did plenty by not informing LE of PF's plans never mind her own feeble "attempts". All, JMHO.

Gitana could comment on this but I believe the proffer was drafted and accepted before she even gave her full and complete statement. She even lawyered up beforehand and had good counsel. I think it was all carried out very fast, before being fully vetted.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Thank you both for chiming in. Just wish I knew what exactly she gave them BEFORE they gave her that sweetie deal.

I understand a deal had to be made as much as I hate it in this case. But I can't help but feel there had to be something more "on the books" they could have charged her with given her level of complicity in this conspiracy. I know she didn't swing the bat, but she did plenty by not informing LE of PF's plans never mind her own feeble "attempts". All, JMHO.

Exactly. She won’t find love here.

 

[MemPat]

No evidence has been shown that KK was at Kelsey's condo on the day she was last seen alive and
we can rest assured that LE knows where KK was.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't put her where she wasn't.

Video evidence proves that Frazee was at the condo on the last day Kelsey was seen alive.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't change that.

 

[GordianKnot]

No evidence has been shown that KK was at Kelsey's condo on the day she was last seen alive and
we can rest assured that LE knows where KK was.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't put her where she wasn't.

Video evidence proves that Frazee was at the condo on the last day Kelsey was seen alive.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't change that.

Beautifully stated.

DA May is going to ask KK himself on direct where she was on Thanksgiving Day.
She's going to say she was in Idaho on Thanksgiving Day.
DA May is going to specifically ask KK if she was in Colorado on Thanksgiving Day.
She's going to say she wasn't in Colorado on Thanksgiving Day.

DA May will have KK give a full accounting of her movements that day, e.g., who she was with, where she went, what she did, etc.

DA May will then provide the jury with all the supporting evidence he has that proves KK was in Idaho on Thanksgiving Day.

The jury isn't going to have to take her word for it.
DA May sure as heck didn't just take her word for it.
He won't expect the jury to do so, either.

This case is NOT going to be a "He Said, She Said."

For one thing, the "He" in this case isn't going to be saying anything. So there's that.
For another thing, the "She" in this case isn't going to be simply taken at her word.

There's going to be plenty of evidence backing up her version of events.
So there's that, too.

JMO.

 

[ilovechili]

Do not get your hopes up on the Wal Mart security cameras catching the auto exchange. The cameras at WM and other stores are

1. Dummy cameras/do not work
2. Not able to take in a wide shot of the area
3. Not able to go much farther then 1/5 of the parking lot,
So the farther away from the store the less likely the
Camera will pick up anything
4. The tapes are NOT changed out like they are supposed
To be
5. The tapes are reused after 24 hours so all prior info is
Gone
6. Oh....cameras are working but no tapes are set in to
Make them working cameras

Who decides all this...management, security departments, and employees working that department that particular day.

BUT I hope I am wrong here and LE has some good footage.

No offense but are you serious? There have been more solved cases by Walmart video than about any entity or evidence any LE agency can ever use. The classic case was even a vending machine with that last image LE needed. I can't remember the case. Someone though told LE that some vending machines had cameras and lo and behold the vending machine had the one view LE could not quite get. At a Walmart.

Now I hate to say that because I don't want criminals realizing this could be.

But if you are committing a crime, do NOT shop at Walmart.

Jmo.