Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

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Yep, same error.


Well darn it, I am not the biggest NBC fan and this does not enamor me with them either and reinforces one of the reasons why. I have a screen shot of my search but not the article because I wanted to save the other results to look at later. At the time I linked the most recent article out today.

I am guessing they changed something or edited it. No idea. It was very recent when I posted it.
 
Yes, I think this is pretty much what MassGuy said after the recent confusion.

No surprises as it's all they've got.

Being guilty as sin doesn't leave lots of options.

I think there will be plenty of surprises in this trial if it goes to trial. I think the percentage of people who follow crime that watch it and talk about it will be higher than the percentage of football fans that watch the Superbowl.

I also think there will be a few things that KK "fudged" to make herself look better and innocent at minimum that will be blown wide open.

My optimistic maybe unrealistic hope is she loses her deal for lying and he is convicted because it will not be enough to find him not guilty but will be enough to take a second look at her.

I can dream and I dream big...

Jmo :)
 
Of course they knew this was coming; we knew this was coming since the preliminary hearing.

In every trial with a star witness, the aim of the defense is to cast doubt on that witness’ testimony.

No different here.
BBM:

Absolutely.
I know this point has been driven home exhaustively, but I feel the need to beat this dead horse here. Hey, at least I'm not beating a live horse, unlike a certain someone we all know who shall here remain nameless.

If PF's defense team was hoping that they were going to catch the DA off-guard with this last-minute, and by last-minute, I mean, late, filing, they can think again.

The news that the defense team is going to attempt to muddy the waters by insinuating at trial that KK could be the "real killer" did not cause Dan May to gasp audibly.
There was no jaw-dropping, hand-wringing and/or pants-wetting in the DA's office when they got the word.

When he read the filing, DA May likely assumed his most stoic expression aka "resting Belichick face" and said, "As expected."

This DA is at least 4 moves ahead of PF's team at all times.
I'm pretty sure he saw this coming before they even did.

The aim of Team PF is (parodoxically) transparent:
Try to muddy the waters and confuse the jury re: KK's role in KB's murder.

The problem with that strategy is that the DA is going to make it crystal clear to the jurors exactly what KK's role was right off the bat...no pun intended.

The DA gets the first swing at the plate in front of the jury.
Advantage: Prosecution.

DA May is going to make sure the jury understands what KK did.
He will walk them painstakingly through the timeline of events.
Every single thing she did will come to light.
He's not there to absolve KK of her role and actions.
But he is there to clarify her role and actions, and to establish that as vile a human being as she is, KK is NOT the murderer.

PF swung the bat.
That might not matter to everyone here.
But in the courtroom, it matters.
To KB's family, it matters.
To the jury, it will matter.

The defense will try to muddy the waters.
The DA will keep them "Krystal clear."
Pun intended that time.

JMO.
 
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I so agree. Everyone with a half of a brain cell has known this has been coming for a long time. KK is not going to be just asked namby pamby questions. I don't foresee kid gloves at all.

Not sure why the prosecution had to ask for it--why not just stay mum and let the deadline pass but then that I guess is a legal or strategy question.

And PF will likely stay mute during trial.

Bring on October and put them both away...

Jmo.

ETA: Still taking bets that it does not proceed on time in October... Short of a deal...
 
BBM:

Absolutely.
I know this point has been driven home exhaustively, but I feel the need to beat this dead horse here. Hey, at least I'm not beating a live horse, unlike a certain someone we all know who shall here remain nameless.

If PF's defense team was hoping that they were going to catch the DA off-guard with this last-minute, and by last-minute, I mean, late, filing, they can think again.

The news that the defense team is going to attempt to muddy the waters by insinuating at trial that KK could be the "real killer" did not cause Dan May to gasp audibly.
There was no jaw-dropping, hand-wringing and/or pants-wetting in the DA's office when they got the word.

When he read the filing, DA May likely assumed his most stoic expression aka "resting Belichick face" and said, "As expected."

This DA is at least 4 moves ahead of PF's team at all times.
I'm pretty sure he saw this coming before they even did.

The aim of Team PF is (parodoxically) transparent:
Try to muddy the waters and confuse the jury re: KK's role in KB's murder.

The problem with that strategy is that the DA is going to make it crystal clear to the jurors exactly what KK's role was right off the bat...no pun intended.

The DA gets the first swing at the plate in front of the jury.
Advantage: Prosecution.

DA May is going to make sure the jury understands what KK did.
He will walk them painstakingly through the timeline of events.
Every single thing she did will come to light.
He's not there to absolve KK of her role and actions.
But he is there to clarify her role and actions, and to establish that as vile a human being as she is, KK is NOT the murderer.

PF swung the bat.
That might not matter to everyone here.
But in the courtroom, it matters.
To KB's family, it matters.
To the jury, it will matter.

The defense will try to muddy the waters.
The DA will keep them "Krystal clear."
Pun intended that time.

JMO.
All puns duly noted and appreciated (some more than others!), GK! :p
................................
IMO, the best trials are those where the story is told by first identifying and interrogating the people in the defendant's everyday life, moving from the distant to close friends and family.

They paint a picture that helps us believe this person is capable of violent behavior. Maybe we hear how he abused animals; maybe that's not admissible, but we surely get to hear from women/people he's mistreated.
(If only horses and dogs could talk!)

Maybe we get to hear from people with whom he's tried to plan other crimes?
(Remembering the old quote: "Relevant past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.")

In Frazee's case we'll get a big drumroll and ole KK will waddle...er....walk up to the stand and spill her well-rehearsed saga of planning and traveling and traveling some more to try but fail to get Kelsey dead.
(We'll see that metal pole and maybe computer proof of the 2 coffees she bought before the foiled poison plot.) DA May will be careful to only let her testify to what can be verified by other evidence or other witnesses. MOO

We'll meet the friend in whom KK confided and the lawyers who got the scoop from her.

Then we'll hear how she traveled yet again to clean up after her boyfriend.
(We'll probably be shown a hazmat suit just like the one she wore.)

You can't make this stuff up and the jury will be mesmerized!

Sure, Frazee's team will paint KK as pure evil....which is not a stretch....but, again, who could make this stuff up when each piece of evidence, all the video, the cell phone records, the blood, and I'm betting that tooth corroborates her testimony?
And so much more we haven't even heard about?!

As much as I believe he'll plead and avoid this trial, I'm convinced 12 jurors anywhere would find him guilty of murder no matter what feeble garbage gets thrown against the wall!

ETA: corrected quote about behavior.
 
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The media can't even get s**t correct. I do hope jurors can.

Yesterday with all of the issues on the site, I searched and today too and was elsewhere much of the day.

Does anyone notice anything misleading or wrong when reading this article linked below?

From a TV network no less.

Not saying I agree with it at all but I am putting it out there not for argument, I imagine it was a mistake, but to keep the thread interesting. Hint, it is towards the end.

Patrick Frazee May Try To Finger New Suspect In Fiancée's Kelsey Berreth Beating Death

One would hope a court trial and jury has people that pay attention better representing on both sides than media seems to. :(

Jmo.
 
The media can't even get s**t correct. I do hope jurors can.

Yesterday with all of the issues on the site, I searched and today too and was elsewhere much of the day.

Does anyone notice anything misleading or wrong when reading this article linked below?

From a TV network no less.

Not saying I agree with it at all but I am putting it out there not for argument, I imagine it was a mistake, but to keep the thread interesting. Hint, it is towards the end.

Patrick Frazee May Try To Finger New Suspect In Fiancée's Kelsey Berreth Beating Death

One would hope a court trial and jury has people that pay attention better representing on both sides than media seems to. :(

Jmo.


I will hazard a guess Chili........We got a new murder scene?
 
The media can't even get s**t correct. I do hope jurors can.

Yesterday with all of the issues on the site, I searched and today too and was elsewhere much of the day.

Does anyone notice anything misleading or wrong when reading this article linked below?

From a TV network no less.

Not saying I agree with it at all but I am putting it out there not for argument, I imagine it was a mistake, but to keep the thread interesting. Hint, it is towards the end.

Patrick Frazee May Try To Finger New Suspect In Fiancée's Kelsey Berreth Beating Death

One would hope a court trial and jury has people that pay attention better representing on both sides than media seems to. :(

Jmo.

Yup. Good eye.

I had to read it twice to catch it:

SABBM:

Lee, who is expected to be a primary witness, told investigators of a horrific murder scene at Frazee’s ranch.

“Blood was on the curtains, pillows, books, baby toys, stuffed animals, oven mitts, Berreth’s purse, and other items,” the affidavit described.
 
Not saying I agree with it at all but I am putting it out there not for argument, I imagine it was a mistake, but to keep the thread interesting. Hint, it is towards the end.

I will hazard a guess Chili........We got a new murder scene?

Huh? This is from 8/22/19. Perhaps link already corrected?

I read this as blood located on contents that were located inside KB's condo.

ETA -- Oh, Frazee ranch -- got it.
 
Yup. Good eye.

I had to read it twice to catch it:

SABBM:

Lee, who is expected to be a primary witness, told investigators of a horrific murder scene at Frazee’s ranch.

“Blood was on the curtains, pillows, books, baby toys, stuffed animals, oven mitts, Berreth’s purse, and other items,” the affidavit described.

When I first read it, I thought well, I bet curtains, pillows, books, toys, stuffed animals, certainly oven mitts of ma's (and KB's purse was taken and gotten rid of, etc.) could have existed at the Franch too and of course my mind started turning...

Go figure. Big BLOOPER that's for sure.

Jmo.
 
Yup. Good eye.

I had to read it twice to catch it:

SABBM:

Lee, who is expected to be a primary witness, told investigators of a horrific murder scene at Frazee’s ranch.

“Blood was on the curtains, pillows, books, baby toys, stuffed animals, oven mitts, Berreth’s purse, and other items,” the affidavit described.

Chris Spargo must have contributed to that report. It’s the only explanation.
 
Huh? This is from 8/22/19. Perhaps link already corrected?

I read this as blood located on contents that were located inside KB's condo.

ETA -- Oh, Frazee ranch -- got it.

It is not corrected even now. I gave a refreshed and current link. Nothing like wrong news out there for those who do not follow closely to see...

Jmo.
 
My guess is KL will loose her plea if this goes to trial.
I think she skirted on the edge of truths that can and will easily be proven false.

She didn’t realize how deeply the word truth meant! Truth means 100% true, not give or take a little here or there.
 
My guess is KL will loose her plea if this goes to trial.
I think she skirted on the edge of truths that can and will easily be proven false.

She didn’t realize how deeply the word truth meant! Truth means 100% true, not give or take a little here or there.

That has been my hope since early on--that she does not wreck the case against him and he is convicted but she loses her deal due to a few lies she was stupid enough to put in her version. That would be the best possible outcome all around imo anyhow.

I have been rereading some warrants and results. Interesting to go back on occasion and review some things.
 
I can understand the concern and also the idea that she may have minimized her role in the crime, however, She did seek counsel prior to sharing of details. I would expect any lawyer that has a chance of not being disbarred or sued for malpractice. would have stressed that a plea is based on complete truth.

Does that mean that she did not lie or minimize, no. But I personally believe the wildness of the story underlines that she actually is sharing her complete knowledge. (keep in mind the bat, blindfold and candles was her relating what he said to her, not what she saw.)

It does no service to her that she actually knew the body was in the tote, but recounts, I do not know, but I assumed it could have been. It does no service to her that she lie about locations or times, since what trapped her in the first place was the cell records. Maybe it stretches credibility that she says she left clues hoping to get caught, but even that serves her no value and provides little wiggle room for the defense.

I would have expected that her lawyers worked very hard with her to share a factual recount that would make her plea unassailable. She went to them before she said anything other than, I was not involved. According to attached article she spoke to agents on Dec 17th and asked for counsel and said she would cooperate, yet it was the 20th before she shared her recounting. She had counsel from her first involvement and those lawyers would have known and expected the defense to confront her and dig for any inconsistency. They had 3 days to work with her to make sure her story was both true and as minimally incriminating as possible.

I also expect that DA May would have cross checked all of her story prior to accepting a plea and using said information as a basis to indict PF.

Many express concern about her deal and the idea that she is getting away with so much, which I understand and can agree with. However, what I see from the timeline is the case and almost all physical evidence is a result of the information she provided originally. Per attached article it was the evening of the 20th after KK's interview that police researched KB's apartment and began removing physical evidence, also suggesting that physical evidence became apparent due to the recounting of KK.

I always have concerns when a deal is made with a perpetrator. This, however, is often the case in the judicial system and I have faith that logic and reason will allow a jury to understand that.

Yes KK was involved, after all that is why she knows things, but also that her story matches the physical evidence and therefore regardless of her punishment it does not negate the involvement of PF.

Fingers crossed for logic and reason, but also imho.
Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far
 
I can understand the concern and also the idea that she may have minimized her role in the crime, however, She did seek counsel prior to sharing of details. I would expect any lawyer that has a chance of not being disbarred or sued for malpractice. would have stressed that a plea is based on complete truth.

Does that mean that she did not lie or minimize, no. But I personally believe the wildness of the story underlines that she actually is sharing her complete knowledge. (keep in mind the bat, blindfold and candles was her relating what he said to her, not what she saw.)

It does no service to her that she actually knew the body was in the tote, but recounts, I do not know, but I assumed it could have been. It does no service to her that she lie about locations or times, since what trapped her in the first place was the cell records. Maybe it stretches credibility that she says she left clues hoping to get caught, but even that serves her no value and provides little wiggle room for the defense.

I would have expected that her lawyers worked very hard with her to share a factual recount that would make her plea unassailable. She went to them before she said anything other than, I was not involved. According to attached article she spoke to agents on Dec 17th and asked for counsel and said she would cooperate, yet it was the 20th before she shared her recounting. She had counsel from her first involvement and those lawyers would have known and expected the defense to confront her and dig for any inconsistency. They had 3 days to work with her to make sure her story was both true and as minimally incriminating as possible.

I also expect that DA May would have cross checked all of her story prior to accepting a plea and using said information as a basis to indict PF.

Many express concern about her deal and the idea that she is getting away with so much, which I understand and can agree with. However, what I see from the timeline is the case and almost all physical evidence is a result of the information she provided originally. Per attached article it was the evening of the 20th after KK's interview that police researched KB's apartment and began removing physical evidence, also suggesting that physical evidence became apparent due to the recounting of KK.

I always have concerns when a deal is made with a perpetrator. This, however, is often the case in the judicial system and I have faith that logic and reason will allow a jury to understand that.

Yes KK was involved, after all that is why she knows things, but also that her story matches the physical evidence and therefore regardless of her punishment it does not negate the involvement of PF.

Fingers crossed for logic and reason, but also imho.
Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far
Excellent 100th post! :) MOO
 
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