Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

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Seattle1 said:
Aug 24, 2019

Patrick Frazee: Whats next?

[...]

Friday, the judge set a hearing date for September 16th to reveal whether or not Frazee's defense team will point the blame at another person.

"If there is an alternate suspect, the judge did set an earlier deadline on that than normal so the parties can have a hearing on whether it's justified," said district attorney Dan May.

This specific motion requested by the defense was a highly anticipated one, with many believing that possible "other person to blame" would be Krystal Kenney, the woman who rated Frazee out to police and made a deal with prosecutors.

That September 16th hearing will not be a cut and dry one. It took the prosecution and defense some time to figure out a date, the judge being the mediator, ensuring they would both have the time they needed to prepare.

"That's the purpose of setting the 16th deadline to see what they have and then we'll respond to it at that time," said May. bbm

[...]

The defense has until the 16th to tell the court what legal strategy they're taking.

If proficient evidence is provided by the defense on the 16, proving that another person may now be a suspect in Kelsey Berreth's death, it could completely change the court of the trial set for October 28th.
Click to expand...

Dave F. said:
Would it come under the gag order signed December 21, 2018 by the previous judge in this case?
12/31/2018 CTO-D005 Order Re Motion to Limit Pre Trial Publicity
Click to expand...

The only thing that makes me question "gag order" is that DA Mays has often spoken publicly about today being the deadline for defense to tell the court what legal strategy they are taking -- i.e., blame another party.

I recall the judge wanted to have a hearing right away to rule on whether blaming alternate suspect was justified.

Today's news only cites today 9/16 is deadline. Maybe defense has until close of business to advise the court.....

MOO

Monday deadline for Frazee attorneys to name new suspect in Kelsey Berreth murder

ETA: As of 3 minutes ago -- Reporter Sam Kraemer still hasn't heard yet either.
 
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Seattle1 said:
Rob McCallum‏ @rwmccallum
Teller County Court Clerk’s Office closed at 5 pm today. As of 5 pm there were no new filings in People v Frazee. Parties may file until 11:59 pm. Anything filed between now and then will be reviewed in the morning #KelseyBerreth

4:08 PM - 16 Sep 2019 pst
Click to expand...

This is interesting. Obviously there’s still time to file, but they’ve had months to think this over.

They knew this was coming.

Perhaps they’re leaving it so late because they have no intention of pointing the finger at KK.

I find that hard to fathom though, as even though the evidence will make this next to impossible to successfully pull off, I can’t think of another defense.

Weird.
 
MassGuy said:
This is interesting. Obviously there’s still time to file, but they’ve had months to think this over.

They knew this was coming.

Perhaps they’re leaving it so late because they have no intention of pointing the finger at KK.

I find that hard to fathom though, as even though the evidence will make this next to impossible to successfully pull off, I can’t think of another defense.

Weird.
Click to expand...
From logistics stand point -- another nightmare. If alternate suspect, implications on October trial start date significant -- another postponement by defense would be certain. MOO
 
MassGuy said:
This is interesting. Obviously there’s still time to file, but they’ve had months to think this over.

They knew this was coming.

Perhaps they’re leaving it so late because they have no intention of pointing the finger at KK.

I find that hard to fathom though, as even though the evidence will make this next to impossible to successfully pull off, I can’t think of another defense.

Weird.
Click to expand...
I agree.

If they don't go for the alternate suspect defense, my wheels are spinning trying to figure out what type of defense they're going to try to offer up.

PF's legal team can't possibly believe it's going to be enough to get up in front of the jury and repetitively chant,
"No body, no crime" like a mantra, can they?

Is moronity contagious, or something?
If so, looks like PF's lawyers have been spending a bit too much time in the company of their client.

I'm going to be more than a little surprised if they don't file that paperwork tonight.

Pleasantly surprised, I might add.

JMO.
 
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Seattle1 said:
The only thing that makes me question "gag order" is that DA Mays has often spoken publicly about today being the deadline for defense to tell the court what legal strategy they are taking -- i.e., blame another party.

I recall the judge wanted to have a hearing right away to rule on whether blaming alternate suspect was justified.

Today's news only cites today 9/16 is deadline. Maybe defense has until close of business to advise the court.....

MOO

Monday deadline for Frazee attorneys to name new suspect in Kelsey Berreth murder

ETA: As of 3 minutes ago -- Reporter Sam Kraemer still hasn't heard yet either.
Click to expand...

The gag order allows either defense or prosecution to comment on matters of public record. The prosecution has been very aggressive in using this option, while the defense has not used it at all. I realize that the the order to file by today is on the public record. What I'm wondering is:

Is the filing that the defense will make today already a matter of public record, or is it subject to the gag order?

It's a question, IMO.
 
Dave F. said:
The gag order allows either defense or prosecution to comment on matters of public record. The prosecution has been very aggressive in using this option, while the defense has not used it at all. I realize that the the order to file by today is on the public record. What I'm wondering is:

Is the filing that the defense will make today already a matter of public record, or is it subject to the gag order?

It's a question, IMO.
Click to expand...

Seattle1 said:
Rob McCallum‏ @rwmccallum
Teller County Court Clerk’s Office closed at 5 pm today. As of 5 pm there were no new filings in People v Frazee. Parties may file until 11:59 pm. Anything filed between now and then will be reviewed in the morning #KelseyBerreth

4:08 PM - 16 Sep 2019 pst
Click to expand...

^^bbm

I guess you'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to get your question answered.
 
Sam Kraemer on Twitter
FRAZEE UPDATE: Today is the deadline for Patrick Frazee’s legal team to file a motion seeking an alternate suspect as his defense. So far, I haven’t heard of anything being filed. I’ll update as we learn more.
#KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney @KOAA

5:03 PM · Sep 16, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

Audra Streetman on Twitter
Still waiting to learn if attorneys representing Patrick Frazee will name an alternate suspect in the murder of Kelsey Berreth. Deadline to file is 11:59 tonight. @CBSDenver
5:12 PM · Sep 16, 2019·Twitter Web App

Brandon Thompson on Twitter
Today was the deadline for defense attorneys for Patrick Frazee to file motions to introduce an alternative suspect. They still have a few hours.
5:16 PM · Sep 16, 2019 from Colorado Springs, CO·Twitter for iPhone
 
The judge did cut the defense a bit short on days to file such a defense intent.

I have also seen cases where something is late to a filing deadline and it is argued and the timeline is extended (after the fact--have to watch out for those appeals)...

I suspect though it will come in late tonight if it has already not come in after hours.

Finally, those hours cut the prosecution's time on notice of it just a bit shorter before trial as well (even if it is just hours today as trial is looming closer and closer) although I would think they would have been preparing for this possibility all along.

If gambling is legal on the worldwide web and this site I will bet trial does not commence when it is supposed to if anyone wants to wager... I am fine with being wrong but I still just cannot see it, even months ago, I could not see it.

Contacting my bookie as I write this... :p Might as well bet on my football team as well while I am at it... Jk......

Jmo.
 
GordianKnot said:
I agree.

If they don't go for the alternate suspect defense, my wheels are spinning trying to figure out what type of defense they're going to try to offer up.

PF's legal team can't possibly believe it's going to be enough to get up in front of the jury and repetitively chant,
"No body, no crime" like a mantra, can they?

Is moronity contagious, or something?
If so, looks like PF's lawyers have been spending a bit too much time in the company of their client.

I'm going to be more than a little surprised if they don't file that paperwork tonight.

Pleasantly surprised, I might add.

JMO.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it would be great if they didn’t, as that would keep the trial on track.

Perhaps they’re just planning to discredit KK, but aren’t going to point the finger at her.

That’s way more realistic than attempting to alter the timeline and accuse her of the murder.

Part of me wants them to accuse her though, as that’s a losing proposition if there ever was one.

So they either file late, or they’ve seen the writing on the wall, and know that it’s just not viable.

I guess we’ll know tomorrow.
 
If the defense decided to claim KK was the mastermind and instigator and PF was just a slightly simple-minded dupe, would that make KK an 'alternate suspect'? Or just a co-conspirator?

Thinking back, an awful lot is based on accepting KK's account at face value. She, like PF, obviously would want to put a spin on her account that is as 'favorable' as possible while in keeping with the irrefutable evidence. We haven't heard PF's version of events: the truth or whatever version he will bring up in court.
 
MassGuy said:
Yeah, it would be great if they didn’t, as that would keep the trial on track.

Perhaps they’re just planning to discredit KK, but aren’t going to point the finger at her.

That’s way more realistic than attempting to alter the timeline and accuse her of the murder.

Part of me wants them to accuse her though, as that’s a losing proposition if there ever was one.

So they either file late, or they’ve seen the writing on the wall, and know that it’s just not viable.

I guess we’ll know tomorrow.
Click to expand...
BBM:

Love your use of that phrase, on account of it's so apropos here.
Casting DA May in the role of Daniel and PF as King Belshazzar in the modern-day version of that scene.
"Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upsharin," PF.
Translation: You're Doomed.

Anyway, in all fairness to PF's attorneys, it's pretty difficult to mount a viable defense when your client has in fact brutally murdered the mother of his child with a baseball bat.

Brutally murdering the mother of one's child with a baseball bat is widely frowned upon behavior.

The defense may need to get creative here.

Does PF like Twinkies, by any chance?

JMO.
 
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Frazee’s trial is set to begin next month, but if his attorneys name another suspect, the trial could be delayed.

Rob McCallum, public information officer for Colorado Courts, said in a tweet that Frazee’s defense lawyers have until 11:59 p.m. Monday to submit their court order identifying an alternate suspect.
Rob McCallum (@rwmccallum) on Twitter

There is no mention in the court documents of who Frazee could point the finger at, but it might be his former girlfriend, who has admitted to a role only in the aftermath of the murder.
Monday Deadline For Defense To Name Alternate Suspect In Kelsey Berreth Murder Case
 
Dave F. said:
The gag order allows either defense or prosecution to comment on matters of public record. The prosecution has been very aggressive in using this option, while the defense has not used it at all. I realize that the the order to file by today is on the public record. What I'm wondering is:

Is the filing that the defense will make today already a matter of public record, or is it subject to the gag order?

It's a question, IMO.
Click to expand...
BBM

PF is represented by the Office of the Colorado State Public Defender which does not comment on pending cases. We learned that in the Watts case. MOO
 
GordianKnot said:
I agree.

If they don't go for the alternate suspect defense, my wheels are spinning trying to figure out what type of defense they're going to try to offer up.

PF's legal team can't possibly believe it's going to be enough to get up in front of the jury and repetitively chant,
"No body, no crime" like a mantra, can they?

Is moronity contagious, or something?
If so, looks like PF's lawyers have been spending a bit too much time in the company of their client.

I'm going to be more than a little surprised if they don't file that paperwork tonight.

Pleasantly surprised, I might add.

JMO.
Click to expand...

Maybe Frazee's family couldn't afford to pay his attorneys what they required for this and, knowing he'll make a plea deal, opted out. He could get 25 to life and a chance one day for parole instead of the LWOP he deserves.

I remain optimistic that Kelsey's family won't have to spend weeks sitting in a courtroom hearing manufactured garbage about their girl.
 
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MemPat said:
Maybe Frazee couldn't afford to pay his attorneys what they required for this and, knowing he'll make a plea deal, opted out. He could get 25 to life and a chance one day for parole.

I remain optimistic that Kelsey's family won't have to spend weeks sitting in a courtroom hearing untrue garbage about their girl.
Click to expand...
He’s got a public defender, so money isn’t the issue.

This is mainly about the defense strategy, and if they plan to say KK did it, and not their client.

I really don’t see PF accepting a plea deal here, as I think he’s too arrogant to believe he’s going to be spending the rest of his life in prison.
 
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