CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[MyBelle]

I hope the staff at the hospital where KB delivered will be able to testify to what they believed was PF's abusive behavior. I believe the trial will bring forward much more testimony that will show a pattern of abusive, controlling behavior. He's been that way with other women in his past as well. He's vile. And I have faith the jury will understand that, even if you don't. JMO

The incident was investigated, was it not? I don't believe the staff at the hospital were the investigators. I look forward to the trial and never assume what a jury will "understand" or conclude just because I want it to agree with my opinion. I think jurors take their responsibility quite seriously, especially when the charge is murder.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Did PF go to college? Not that it matters but KK did marry and have children. I wonder how that declaration made her ex-husband and children feel.

PF chose to find another woman via an online dating site and made a baby with her. I do believe PF and KB did love one another at that point. It was quite a commitment for KB to move so far away from her parents so she could be closer to PF.

JMO

I am not sure that PF ever loved KB.
I think he wanted to have a child.

He went out of state to KB and helped her move to him and his family. At that point she was trapped. If she wanted to break up with him, legally, she would not be able to leave Colorado with the baby.

I think he chose her for a reason. He was looking to cull someone from the herd. Isolate them, and once he had a child, if he didn't need them anymore, he'd dispose of them.

 

[MassGuy]

But weren't we discussing why there was no hit in the condo? Just asking.

Dogs miss things all the time. I can think of several recent cases where cadaver dogs walked right past dead bodies.

Perhaps the cleaning solution threw them off or something.

What matters is blood was found, not that the dogs didn’t hit on that blood.

It doesn’t change anything.

 

[MyBelle]

That doesn't mean she was lying. He could have removed it at any time, without her seeing inside the tote.

But KK claimed she was there when PF retrieved the tote from the hay bales and she was there when he set it on fire. It's quite a leap to then assume KK wasn't there when he opened the tote and gave the gun to her.

KK lied to LE. Really not a stretch to believe she lied about other "facts."

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I am not sure that PF ever loved KB.
I think he wanted to have a child.

He went out of state to KB and helped her move to him and his family. At that point she was trapped. If she wanted to break up with him, legally, she would not be able to leave Colorado with the baby.

I think he chose her for a reason. He was looking to cull someone from the herd. Isolate them, and once he had a child, if he didn't need them anymore, he'd dispose of them.

Whether PF wanted a child or not, the decision to have the child rested squarely with KB. I didn't suggest KB wanted to leave Colorado. Her job was in Pueblo and no court would have prevented her from moving. A parenting plan could have been implemented if they couldn't work it out on their own. Sounds to me--from the testimony at the preliminary hearing--and comments made by CB, that the parents were working it out on their own.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Whether PF wanted a child or not, the decision to have the child rested squarely with KB. I didn't suggest KB wanted to leave Colorado. Her job was in Pueblo and no court would have prevented her from moving. A parenting plan could have been implemented if they couldn't work it out on their own. Sounds to me--from the testimony at the preliminary hearing--and comments made by CB, that the parents were working it out on their own.

JMO

Yeah. PF worked it out with a baseball bat.

 

[MyBelle]

Above it? Is it a flying dog? Just asking your opinion. I know what Sam tweeted. IMO

How would a plastic tote discolor a hay bale? That truly baffles me.

JMO

 

[MemPat]

A leak of body fluids would discolor a hay bale.

 

[mickey2942]

He didn't because she had a career an hour away. From what we know, they did apparently get along well enough to co-parent the baby without going to court about it.

HMO

Their relationship confuses me. They had a child together, then KB decided to purchase her own home. Yet, was friendly enough with him to trust him to blind fold her for a "scent candle game"?

I wonder if she was cooling down everything with PF.

 

[MassGuy]

How would a plastic tote discolor a hay bale? That truly baffles me.

JMO

I don’t find that the least bit baffling.

KK described that house as being a bloody mess.

PF would have had to lift Kelsey’s body into that tote.

So even if that tote wasn’t resting in blood (it very well might have), blood would drip down the sides during the transfer process.

 

[MsBetsy]

Whether PF wanted a child or not, the decision to have the child rested squarely with KB. I didn't suggest KB wanted to leave Colorado. Her job was in Pueblo and no court would have prevented her from moving. A parenting plan could have been implemented if they couldn't work it out on their own. Sounds to me--from the testimony at the preliminary hearing--and comments made by CB, that the parents were working it out on their own.

JMO

How would we know the decision to have a child rested squarely on Kelsey?
It usually takes two. I'm sure he would have known how to prevent that from happening. Imo

 

[Dave F.]

How would a plastic tote discolor a hay bale? That truly baffles me.

JMO

I don't know! Can it really do that? It's amazing to me, if it does. Does anyone else have any ideas?

As long as we're still on the Nash ranch, does anyone have a guess why LE never searched anywhere but KK's haystack? It would seem to me that since the dog got a hit there, for sure on the floor of the barn at the base of the stacks, that would logically be the last confirmed place that there is evidence (not testimony) of a body. Why wasn't it prudent to give the old ranch a look-see, just in case that lump in the tote wasn't what KK said she didn't see. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

How would we know the decision to have a child rested squarely on Kelsey?
It usually takes two. I'm sure he would have known how to prevent that from happening. Imo

The decision whether or not to give birth is the right of pregnant women. She doesn't have to consult with the father.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

The decision whether or not to give birth is the right of pregnant women. She doesn't have to consult with the father.

JMO

Well that's true but it does not mean he didn't want to have a baby.

After all, he had a fit when he couldn't bond with his baby at the hospital during the short time he was separated from her and he killed Kelsey because he wanted his child all to himself. Imo

 

[MyBelle]

I don't know! Can it really do that? It's amazing to me, if it does. Does anyone else have any ideas?

As long as we're still on the Nash ranch, does anyone have a guess why LE never searched anywhere but KK's haystack? It would seem to me that since the dog got a hit there, for sure on the floor of the barn at the base of the stacks, that would logically be the last confirmed place that there is evidence (not testimony) of a body. Why wasn't it prudent to give the old ranch a look-see, just in case that lump in the tote wasn't what KK said she didn't see. JMO

I've wondered about why there was no search. Let the dogs loose to search for a recently dug grave. PF didn't have to wait for KK to arrive two days later. He could have disposed of the body anywhere in that vast wilderness before KK every arrived. I still don't believe he took it back to his mother's place and lit a gigantic bonfire in her front yard while she was there.

JMO

 

[Dave F.]

I've wondered about why there was no search. Let the dogs loose to search for a recently dug grave. PF didn't have to wait for KK to arrive two days later. He could have disposed of the body anywhere in that vast wilderness before KK every arrived. I still don't believe he took it back to his mother's place and lit a gigantic bonfire in her front yard while she was there. Surely, in that entire area of Colorado, there must be some guy with a drone that has a camera on it that they could hire to make a general sweep of likely places, and then bring in the dogs to check thise places out. I'm thinking that might have gone just as far as the landfill search, in terms of vetting. IMO

JMO

Exactly! Not to mention that old bugaboo about whether KK's story was "vetted" or not. A simple search would have gone a long ways toward filling that credibility gap IMO

 

[MyBelle]

Well that's true but it does not mean he didn't want to have a baby.

After all, he had a fit when he couldn't bond with his baby at the hospital during the short time he was separated from her and he killed Kelsey because he wanted his child all to himself. Imo

That incident underscores the fact PF wanted the baby and bonded with her. The history from her birth to KB's death seems to indicate they were voluntarily co-parenting. If PF wanted full control, he could have gone to court. He didn't.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

But KK claimed she was there when PF retrieved the tote from the hay bales and she was there when he set it on fire. It's quite a leap to then assume KK wasn't there when he opened the tote and gave the gun to her.

KK lied to LE. Really not a stretch to believe she lied about other "facts."

JMO

I am not assuming she wasn't there when he opened the tote. I assume she was there or nearby when he did.

But even if she was, that doesn't mean she lied about not seeing the body.

How do we know she would have seen the body for sure if he opened it slightly and reached in for the gun?

He could have gotten the gun, without her looking inside and seeing the body.

And maybe she did see it, but we have no evidence that she did. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly! Not to mention that old bugaboo about whether KK's story was "vetted" or not. A simple search would have gone a long ways toward filling that credibility gap IMO

I don't believe her story could be vetted ahead of that sweet plea deal. I think cops were told she was the witness and they'd better find solid evidence to support her "story." A discolored hay bale is weak evidence and so are pings on the same cell tower. I think LE fell far short, know it and I don't blame them if they are angry.

I seriously doubt LE was supportive of the sweet plea deal. The DA doesn't care because he's a lame duck.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

She said she didn't see the body. How do we know that is a lie?

He could have opened the tote to get the gun, without her looking inside and seeing the body.

Maybe she did see it, but we have no evidence that she did.

I think it is a lie based on her history of lying to LE about this case. If you want to believe she didn't look inside the tote when the gun was retrieved, that's okay. I think she'll be asked at trial and we all will hear her answer and believe it or not.

JMO