CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

I don't believe her story could be vetted ahead of that sweet plea deal. I think cops were told she was the witness and they'd better find solid evidence to support her "story." A discolored hay bale is weak evidence and so are pings on the same cell tower. I think LE fell far short, know it and I don't blame them if they are angry.

I seriously doubt LE was supportive of the sweet plea deal. The DA doesn't care because he's a lame duck.

JMO

This lies somewhere between fantasy and insanity.

It’s also vile.

Accusing law enforcement of being pressured into finding corroboration, without evidence to support this assertion.

If you honestly don’t believe that cell phone evidence means anything, then there is nothing that will convince you that PF Killed Kelsey.

Your mind is made up, and facts don’t matter.

 

[MyBelle]

I am not assuming she wasn't there when he opened the tote. I assume she was there or nearby when he did.

But even if she was, that doesn't mean she lied about not seeing the body.

How do we know she would have seen the body for sure if he opened it slightly and reached in for the gun?

He could have gotten the gun, without her looking inside and seeing the body.

And maybe she did see it, but we have no evidence that she did. JMO

I truly don't know what KK lied about other than the lies she told to LE. The burden of proof in this case is on the prosecution to convince the jury she didn't lie about anything else and I think that will prove difficult.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

That incident underscores the fact PF wanted the baby and bonded with her. The history from her birth to KB's death seems to indicate they were voluntarily co-parenting. If PF wanted full control, he could have gone to court. He didn't.

JMO

Why would he bother going to court, spending all that money he didn't have, when he already planned to rid himself of the problem?

 

[MassGuy]

Why would he bother going to court, spending all that money he didn't have, when he already planned to rid himself of the problem?

He wanted sole custody, and he wasn’t going to get that in court.

I think he went from trying to get awarded custody by making false abuse allegations, to murder when that effort failed.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

You're saying the dog hit on the discoloration in the hay? Aren't dogs supposed to be more or less color blind? Just asking.

Above it? Is it a flying dog? Just asking your opinion. I know what Sam tweeted. IMO

I have no patience left...Night everyone.

 

[MsBetsy]

That incident underscores the fact PF wanted the baby and bonded with her. The history from her birth to KB's death seems to indicate they were voluntarily co-parenting. If PF wanted full control, he could have gone to court. He didn't.

JMO

Right. He didn't go to court. He killed her instead.

 

[katydid23]

I truly don't know what KK lied about other than the lies she told to LE. The burden of proof in this case is on the prosecution to convince the jury she didn't lie about anything else and I think that will prove difficult.

JMO

I don't think they have to prove she didn't lie about anything else.

Remember the Bella Bond trial? That poor baby was abandoned in a plastic bag on the ocean shore in Boston. Her mother, who was a worthless waste of breath, made a sweet plea deal and testified against her boyfriend, blaming him for the murder.

There were lots of things that made it look like mom was the guilty party. And during the trial, when she threw her bf under the bus, there were a lot of inconsistencies, and lies.

Many of us were certain the prosecutors were going to nullify her deal. Never happened.

Bella Bond

Murder of Bella Bond - Wikipedia

 

[MsBetsy]

You're saying the dog hit on the discoloration in the hay? Aren't dogs supposed to be more or less color blind? Just asking.

They don't use their eyes, they use their nose to pick up the scent.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't think they have to prove she didn't lie about anything else.

Remember the Bella Bond trial? That poor baby was abandoned in a plastic bag on the ocean shore in Boston. Her mother, who was a worthless waste of breath, made a sweet plea deal and testified against her boyfriend, blaming him for the murder.

There were lots of things that made it look like mom was the guilty party. And during the trial, when she threw her bf under the bus, there were a lot of inconsistencies, and lies.

Many of us were certain the prosecutors were going to nullify her deal. Never happened.

Bella Bond

Murder of Bella Bond - Wikipedia

All that matters is her offering clarity to the rest of the evidence, and her account being supported by the evidence.

The jury doesn’t have to believe everything she says; just the big stuff.

 

[MyBelle]

I am not assuming she wasn't there when he opened the tote. I assume she was there or nearby when he did.

But even if she was, that doesn't mean she lied about not seeing the body.

How do we know she would have seen the body for sure if he opened it slightly and reached in for the gun?

He could have gotten the gun, without her looking inside and seeing the body.

And maybe she did see it, but we have no evidence that she did. JMO

I'm curious why you want to assume KK wasn't there when PF opened the tote with Kelsey's body and retrieved the gun? She said she was present when the tote was retrieved and set on fire (according to KK.)

The gun ended up in KK's hands. That's a fact not disputed by testimony.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I don't think they have to prove she didn't lie about anything else.

Remember the Bella Bond trial? That poor baby was abandoned in a plastic bag on the ocean shore in Boston. Her mother, who was a worthless waste of breath, made a sweet plea deal and testified against her boyfriend, blaming him for the murder.

There were lots of things that made it look like mom was the guilty party. And during the trial, when she threw her bf under the bus, there were a lot of inconsistencies, and lies.

Many of us were certain the prosecutors were going to nullify her deal. Never happened.

Bella Bond

Murder of Bella Bond - Wikipedia

The Bella Bond trial has absolutely nothing to do with this case because the suspect isn't the child's mother. She is a victim.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm curious why you want to assume KK wasn't there when PF opened the tote with Kelsey's body and retrieved the gun? She said she was present when the tote was retrieved and set on fire (according to KK.)

The gun ended up in KK's hands. That's a fact not disputed by testimony.

JMO

Can anyone prove if she saw the inside of that tote?

No.

Does it matter one way or the other?

No.

 

[MyBelle]

Right. He didn't go to court. He killed her instead.

Why not go to court? He had court papers filled out. Why not file them? That's what most parents do when they are in a custody dispute. My own daughter did it.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Can anyone prove if she saw the inside of that tote?

No.

Does it matter one way or the other?

No.

Yes, it does matter. Proof will be required at trial. Good luck!

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I'm curious why you want to assume KK wasn't there when PF opened the tote with Kelsey's body and retrieved the gun? She said she was present when the tote was retrieved and set on fire (according to KK.)

The gun ended up in KK's hands. That's a fact not disputed by testimony.

JMO

As I said, I am NOT assuming she wasn't there, somewhere, when he retrieved the gun. But that doesn't mean she saw the body.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, it does matter. Proof will be required at trial. Good luck!

JMO

Explain to me how her seeing the inside of that tote has anything to do with PF murdering Kelsey?

It’s not like the jury is going to say “I don’t believe she didn’t see the inside of that tote, clearly Patrick Frazee is innocent.”

 

[MyBelle]

They don't use their eyes, they use their nose to pick up the scent.

Actually, the dogs use their years of training to pick up the scent. It is truly baffling to me why a well-trained cadaver dog failed to pick up the scent of a horrifically bloody crime scene undisturbed for two days.

I look forward to the explanation at trial.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

As I said, I am NOT assuming she wasn't there, somewhere, when he retrieved the gun. But that doesn't mean she saw the body.

It will matter at trial.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

The Bella Bond trial has absolutely nothing to do with this case because the suspect isn't the child's mother. She is a victim.

She was a victim?

I don't think so. From the wiki about the case:



Police released the information that the child was a murder victim and charged Michael McCarthy, the mother's boyfriend, with Bond's death.[2] They also charged her mother with being an accessory to the crime, believing her to have assisted McCarthy with "covering up" Bella's death.[2][5] Larceny was added to Rachelle Bond's charges after she was found to have accepted nearly $1,400 of welfare income after she knew about the death of her daughter.[108][109][110] Bond also continued to receive housing benefits.[111] The pair were arraigned on September 21, 2015.[5][112] Rachelle's bail was set for $1 million;

Rachelle Bond, known as a habitual drug user, had two other children who had been removed from her custody.[4][5] She had also been arrested multiple times in the past, for other crimes, including prostitution.[35] Police commented that they had dealt with complaints that she was neglecting her daughter and had had four separate encounters with Bond.[4][5] Bella's family was interviewed after the identification was announced. Her aunt stated that she had never suspected that "Baby Doe" was Bella, and the maternal grandmother of the victim was unaware that the child was ever born.[107] The Department of Children and Families had responded to two neglect complaints regarding Bella; both cases were closed.[4][5]

 

[MyBelle]

Explain to me how her seeing the inside of that tote has anything to do with PF murdering Kelsey?

It’s not like the jury is going to say “I don’t believe she didn’t see the inside of that tote, clearly Patrick Frazee is innocent.”

The jury is going to want evidence to persuade them of PF's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If you think that will be easy, I refer you to the Skylar Richardson case.

JMO