CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[alucardsdream]

Cause she was an instructor

I do it when I fly

I type texts and emails while I am flying

Later I release them to transit

If I pulled my phone out while flying, my instructor would probably rip it out of my hands, and rightly so. Pilots don't use cell phones while flying. I sincerely doubt KB would be typing out emails while instructing flight students.

 

[Snow Flower]

This is my first post, so be kind if I mess up. A few thoughts that I have had as I've read about this case.

*KB's mother is a 7th Day Adventist? Correct? She also claims that KB is strong in her faith. Is PF of the same faith? It's my understanding that 7th Day Adventists frown upon interfaith marriage. This is pure speculation, but if KB is strong in her faith and PF is not this may explain the lack of movement on the marriage front, and what seems on the surface, like previously existing family dynamic tensions. Along this line, it may also explain why PF does not seem to be allowing generous access to the grandchild. Again......this is all PURE SPECULATION.

*I've seen many posts questioning drug/alcohol issues on the part of KB. With reference to religion, again, IF KB is faithful to her beliefs, she would not have those issues as they don't partake. Not proof....not verifiable....but also explains why she'd be outspoken about abstention (as per some past posts) without addiction issues.

Now, facts. The facts have been held very closely to LE's vest (so to speak). The glaring facts that stand out and need to be highlighted (imho) are:

- A young healthy woman with a child woke up on Thanksgiving morning and began her day. She baked cinnamon rolls. She chatted with her mother on the phone (Her mother - who has nothing to gain/lose by lying and who's only interest in this case is locating her missing daughter). She told her mother that she was looking forward to decorating for Christmas, that she was going out for Thanksgiving dinner with her fiancé, and that she needed a recipe her mother had. There was no indication on that call that anything was wrong, no distress, no duress. (again...as per mother with nothing to gain by lying, she spoke hopefully and happily of her future)

- Mother takes daughter grocery shopping (preparing for? doesn't matter....purchases for the future)

- Mom leaves fresh baking out on counter

Now just take a moment to assess this woman's life. She's under 30. She's a mother. She owns her own home. She has a career she loves. She has a beautiful child. She owns two vehicles. She obviously has worked very hard to be successful. Does any of this sound like a person prone to addiction? To depression so severe it would hamper her ability to function?

This is as far as we know for sure. Here is where we have to rely on PF version of events henceforth.

PF picks up daughter. Oh and by the way, they broke up the day before - the engagement is off.

Three days later.....PF got a text from her.

And let's take a moment to assess what we know about PF. 30 Something man, lives on mini ranch with his mother. Is rodeo/farrier/dog trainer his dream occupation? Unknown, but perhaps. Lawyered up (smart) before anyone even realized this was an issue. Speaking only through his lawyer.

Look, I do not want to accuse, but horses people, not zebras. It really doesn't look good for finding KB. It also really does not look good for ever holding any responsible for it.

Great first post! Great analysis!

 

[Deleted member 169742]

That is only if PF is a person that is not expected to be in Kelsey's house. If everything is as her mother described then it should be expected to find his DNA in her house and it would have no value as evidence. If the relationship was broken and PF didn't have access, e.g. a key to get in, etc. then the presence of his DNA may or may not be of any value.

It is a time stamp

It places him in that house sometime after the rolls were baked

 

[Deleted member 155000]

The whole farrier bringing babies to work argument seems odd to me. Are we just out of things to dissect?

I went out to the barn earlier to pay my farrier. He didn't have a baby with him.... My limited and personal opinion is a farrier might bring an older child, or a baby if say a barn person or owner said bring the baby we haven't seen them, I'll get baby snuggles while you work. Just a regular day of shoeing, I don't see it happening. They are busy working with 1200 pound animals and equipment that's tough with an infant, and if they hot shod that smell and smoke is horrendous!

One more nothing to add to the conversation. Our farrier had 30 take or give horses to do, at $160 a pop. If a farrier had a few bigger barn's to do, that's not bad money on top of his other streams of income. There are several show barn's in the florrisaint, springs, larkspur area. I have no clue, if PF works with any of them, but there are plenty of opportunities in that area and a good Farrer is worth their weight in gold. No feet, no horse.

All MOO

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Snow Flower]

The cinnamon rolls are significant because they were left out uncovered. This strongly suggests that KB was not planning to be away for long. She would have covered and stored the rolls prior to going out for dinner, IMHO. If she were planning to go on a long-ish trip, say, to Idaho, she would have packed the rolls for a snack. Again, IMHO.

Okay. I have to admit you make a good point.

 

[alucardsdream]

The whole farrier bringing babies to work argument seems odd to me. Are we just out of things to dissect?

I went out to the barn earlier to pay my farrier. He didn't have a baby with him.... My limited and personal opinion is a farrier might bring an older child, or a baby if say a barn person or owner said bring the baby we haven't seen them, I'll get baby snuggles while you work. Just a regular day of shoeing, I don't see it happening. They are busy working with 1200 pound animals and equipment that's tough with an infant, and if they hot shod that smell and smoke is horrendous!

One more nothing to add to the conversation. Our farrier had 30 take or give horses to do, at $160 a pop. If a farrier had a few bigger barn's to do, that's not bad money on top of his other streams of income. There are several show barn's in the florrisaint, springs, larkspur area. I have no clue, if PF works with any of them, but there are plenty of opportunities in that area and a good Farrer is worth their weight in gold. No feet, no horse.

All MOO

I think we ran out of discussion points concerning the cinnamon rolls...

I don't think PF would have been carting his baby around with him while working, maybe once in a very long while if there were extenuating circumstances where no one else could watch her, KB was in the air, and PF had to go somewhere on short notice.

 

[MyBelle]

I think you are making assumptions. I have heard from people who have knowledge of farriers that they sometimes take their children along. I could see that here. MOO

I think it more likely that PF left the child in the care of someone else while he worked. Most working couples do require childcare assistance whether it be paid babysitters or family. We know PF lives with his mother. JMO

 

[Jennifer17]

It is a time stamp

It places him in that house sometime after the rolls were baked

But we already know that. He picked the child up in the afternoon.

 

[PrairieWind]

Some have speculated that perhaps religion was a factor in PF and KB not getting married or a source of tension between the families. Its certainly possible, but I doubt it. We don't know anything about PF's religious beliefs, but KB as we know is a Seventh Day Adventist. But her family seems not too strict. KB talked about Christmas trees and decorating for Christmas. Seventh Day Adventists don't celebrate Christmas (or any religious holidays). So while she may have been strong in her faith, I suspect perhaps not so strict with her SDA church followings.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

If I pulled my phone out while flying, my instructor would probably rip it out of my hands, and rightly so. Pilots don't use cell phones while flying. I sincerely doubt KB would be typing out emails while instructing flight students.

Thank you

I did not mean that

I am sure she placed her phone on airplane mode when working ... and likely talked about it ... it is a typical question.

Not that she was flying with her knees while typing out a quick text

I use it as a passenger

 

[oviedo]

Bumping Sillybilly's post.

 

[oviedo]

Speculation about a victim should be based on some known fact, not just tossing out general speculation when there is nothing to substantiate it.

Also, LE has said her disappearance is suspicious, not that they are concerned about her mental health.

 

[Jennifer17]

Some have speculated that perhaps religion was a factor in PF and KB not getting married or a source of tension between the families. Its certainly possible, but I doubt it. We don't know anything about PF's religious beliefs, but KB as we know is a Seventh Day Adventist. But her family seems not too strict. KB talked about Christmas trees and decorating for Christmas. Seventh Day Adventists don't celebrate Christmas (or any religious holidays). So while she may have been strong in her faith, I suspect perhaps not so strict with her SDA church followings.

All the SDAs that I know celebrate Christmas.

 

[Cherokee]

Yeah, Baby K is tiny. I wouldn't want my tiny baby left unattended in a car seat while my fiance trimmed horse hooves. 15 month olds also need to be able to move around and explore to develop their motor skills. Someone else had to have been watching her most of the time while he went to work. There is nothing wrong with concluding that. Pretty much all families where both parents work outside the home have family members help or have a daycare or nanny. We can't conclude which parent had Baby K with them more often simply by their jobs. JMO.

BBM. Thank you. That was my only point. PF and KB were not the only ones who had close contact with K.

 

[ColoGirl]

Since her cars are accounted for and no crime seen in her townhome, I am sure she willingly walked outside to meet someone, or maybe to throw away trash or get something from her car. Could have been the fiancé for dinner or he lured her, asking her to bring something out for the baby. Or she met someone who she was going to ride with... which probably would show up on her phone or email. Or was just plain snatched in front of her place by a possibly unknown person.

 

[Snow Flower]

Some have speculated that perhaps religion was a factor in PF and KB not getting married or a source of tension between the families. Its certainly possible, but I doubt it. We don't know anything about PF's religious beliefs, but KB as we know is a Seventh Day Adventist. But her family seems not too strict. KB talked about Christmas trees and decorating for Christmas. Seventh Day Adventists don't celebrate Christmas (or any religious holidays). So while she may have been strong in her faith, I suspect perhaps not so strict with her SDA church followings.

I wonder if there are different sects of belief in Seventh Day Adventist? I have a daughter in law who was raised in the Seventh Day Adventist faith. My son was not. I have never even heard them discuss the subject. It hasn’t interfered in their marriage at all.

 

[SoVeryMe]

I have never seen a farrier bring his baby, in a carrier or otherwise, into a shed or barn to work with kicking horses. If that truly happened, it is irresponsible. Even if a horse doesn't kick, it sometimes will stomp feet down or move sideways and/or front to back on a tether. Having a baby close enough to see and care for while working on large stock animals is dangerous and unnecessary.

What do you mean we don't know how big a baby K is? We've seen her in recent video held by her dad and in a car seat with her mom.

I’d be a bit annoyed if my farrier brought his little one. Not only is it highly unsafe but also super unprofessional. With that said i know a few who take their tween sons along who help out and learn the trade. I’m definitely not paying for services while watching your child!

 

[Steelhead]

The interview that CB did with KOAA5 is interesting. CB states “She (KB) had been excited to decorate for Christmas and excited about that, but she thought maybe her fiancé and K were planning to get the Christmas tree themselves and so she was holding off on buying something”. Did PF procure a Christmas tree between Nov 22-25th? What was KB holding off to purchase...a tree skirt, ornaments or possibly her own damn tree? A baby and a dad are making Christmas tree arrangements? Is it just me or is that a pretty incredible baby or a very distant relationship?

Maybe he subsequently invited KB to join them?

 

[Deleted member 169742]

Since her cars are accounted for and no crime seen in her townhome, I am sure she willingly walked outside to meet someone, or maybe to throw away trash or get something from her car. Could have been the fiancé for dinner or he lured her, asking her to bring something out for the baby. Or she met someone who she was going to ride with... which probably would show up on her phone or email. Or was just plain snatched in front of her place by a possibly unknown person.

I am starting to see how an unknown assailant could be involved.

Thank you

 

[MyBelle]

I don't think anyone is insisting it couldn't have happened. They are just trying to distinguish between multiple different reports that PF might be the primary caregiver now vs. that his mom or another party might be. Especially because it's been reported, but not confirmed to my knowledge, that his mother has some health issues that might make that tricky. So I think we are mostly just curious if you have a way of knowing/confirming the mother doesn't have those health issues and is the full-time caregiver?

Also, thanks for clarifying that you believe his full-time occupation in 2018 is a farrier. I hadn't seen that confirmed anywhere, but if you can share that link, I will GLADLY concede that. Again, just trying to distinguish fact from opinion so we don't end up building future premises on false assumptions.

PF's mother may provide care to the child for a few hours during his work time but I wouldn't call her a primary caregiver if K was going home to Mommy's house every day. KB's father has said she and the baby sometimes spent the night at PFs house and I believe the baby's parents were the primary caregivers on those occasions.