CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[oviedo]

Maybe they did have dinner together. Is it possible KB baked the cinnamon rolls on 11/23?

We don't have any way to know when these events occurred beyond the video... sadly it is all speculation, and what her family is saying in interviews since PF hasn't spoken about anything. IMO

 

[Deleted member 169742]

I think, because we have so little to go on, we are making a bigger deal out of the cinnamon rolls Then need be. My guess is she got the recipe for them from her mom, got the stuff she needed to make them at Safeway and made them. I notice my own kids frequently ask me for a recipe on a holiday. The things we had from year to year mean holidays to them and they miss them. Maybe her mom made cinnamon rolls each Thanksgiving Morning and she herself had a craving for them.

I don’t like victimizing of victims. There is not one shread of real evidence she had mental problems. Not one!

I pray they find her, one way or the other! I feel so sad for her family!

PFs DNA on the rolls, would place him in the townhouse

If there was a crime ... it happened at the townhouse, his house or somewhere in between

They seem to have eliminated his house.

The rolls could be key

 

[oviedo]

Hi all,

Random question, if they return PF’s truck to him and put a tracker on it do they have to disclose that to him? I mean, it seems like they would but then he’d probably just drive another vehicle. Anyone know?

I seem to recall where LE did this in another case - wish I could remember which one. And one of our verified attorney's may be able to answer about disclosure.

ETA - I believe they need a warrant to do this.

 

[MassGuy]

Hi all,

Random question, if they return PF’s truck to him and put a tracker on it do they have to disclose that to him? I mean, it seems like they would but then he’d probably just drive another vehicle. Anyone know?

They wouldn’t disclose it to him, as it would defeat the purpose.

 

[Jennifer17]

PFs DNA on the rolls, would place him in the townhouse

If there was a crime ... it happened at the townhouse, his house or somewhere in between

They seem to have eliminated his house.

The rolls could be key

His DNA on the rolls would not mean anything. He could have been offered eaten one when he picked K up.

 

[Ccging]

They wouldn’t disclose it to him, as it would defeat the purpose.

That’s what I thought but wasn’t sure if they were required to disclose it by law or something. Thanks!!

 

[Gardener1850]

I have never seen a farrier bring his baby, in a carrier or otherwise, into a shed or barn to work with kicking horses. If that truly happened, it is irresponsible. Even if a horse doesn't kick, it sometimes will stomp feet down or move sideways and/or front to back on a tether. Having a baby close enough to see and care for while working on large stock animals is dangerous and unnecessary.

What do you mean we don't know how big a baby K is? We've seen her in recent video held by her dad and in a car seat with her mom.

Yeah, Baby K is tiny. I wouldn't want my tiny baby left unattended in a car seat while my fiance trimmed horse hooves. 15 month olds also need to be able to move around and explore to develop their motor skills. Someone else had to have been watching her most of the time while he went to work. There is nothing wrong with concluding that. Pretty much all families where both parents work outside the home have family members help or have a daycare or nanny. We can't conclude which parent had Baby K with them more often simply by their jobs. JMO.

 

[Jennifer17]

I seem to recall where LE did this in another case - wish I could remember which one. And one of our verified attorney's may be able to answer about disclosure.

ETA - I believe they need a warrant to do this.

The Rhoden case.

 

[Steelhead]

We don't have any way to know when these events occurred beyond the video... sadly it is all speculation, and what her family is saying in interviews since PF hasn't spoken about anything. IMO

So is that a "yes"?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

K would not have been allowed to fly with KB. When I say primary caregiver, I mean when K was with PF. I apologize my post did not convey that message.

I believe when PF had custody of K, for whatever reason, (which certainly included when KB was flying for work), PF's mother did most of the hands-on care. To make a living, PF had to be out and about, not tied to the house and property.

I guess a lot of people don't know that much about ranching, horses, farriers, cattle brokers, etc. I didn't expect posters to think PF dragged K with him all over western CO and other states for his job. In the west, it is not uncommon to drive hundreds of miles for work. There is not that much population in the Florissant area who have enough horses for PF to sit and make "house call" appointments in the local neighborhood.

Football teams sometimes have to be bussed six hours or more one way just to play a game in their district. People drive four hours or more to go shopping for the day in the biggest city close to them. People in the western US are used to driving for hours, and most of the roads (unless in mountainous areas) are straight and flat. People don't quote how many miles it is from town to town but say how many hours/minutes it takes, and that's usually driving 70-75 mph.

By necessity, PF needed to be out working and networking to make a living. And the area in which he could work wasn't some nice little 15-mile area.

Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean that "a lot of people don't know much about ranching, horses, farriers, cattle brokers etc." It's possible that they have had different experiences because the size and extent of each farrier's business and the context of the local community can be different from place to place.

My impression is that PF has several farm-related jobs that he seems to piece together to make a living and I, personally, grew up in a country town of about 1,1100 people where many people did just that. I also live in a different small agricultural town of similar size today. So I know plenty of people who make money from a variety of farm-related sources.

I do agree with you that most farriers don't take toddlers to their jobs on a daily basis, but I also am not sure that PF is a full-time 40 hr. per week farrier. I think it's possible--even likely--that he splits his time between many jobs, providing farrier services here and there, while also raising cattle and dogs. Many farming families include their kids in the work, let them ride along in the truck or the tractor, and this is permissible in a lot of country towns where everybody knows everyone and the kids might even play with the client's kids while they're there (because they've all known each other since high school).

I'm not saying that this is the case here, just that--as far as I know--we don't know how many hours per week PF spent in each of these jobs or if he was even still doing all these jobs during the last year. We don't know if he cut back on his farm hours when his daughter was born either. He may have had that flexibility given it was a family business and mom could pitch in, as you've suggested, when he had to run out for a job here and there.

I think the reason people replied strongly is maybe because it seemed like you're presenting it as fact that "PF's mother did most of the hands-on care," and I think the users here have just been taught not to accept assumptions as fact...unless someone presents a link to confirm the information. If there is an interview in which a family member says that PF's mother did most of the care, I think sharing a link would go a long way in settling this line of conversation.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Seattle1]

Maybe they did have dinner together. Is it possible KB baked the cinnamon rolls on 11/23?

Reports from LE are that KB was last seen on 11/22 by PF when he collected his daughter from her during the "exchange." I don't think they had dinner together, or that KB baked on 11/23, as it contradicts this account. MOO

 

[Cherokee]

We don't know if he operated a full-fledged farrier business serving multiple counties 7 days a week. He may have just been "the local guy" you called when you needed serviced and he had more like one farrier job a week, in addition to his other gigs. So we don't know how often this job required child care in my opinion.

PF has a "full-fledged farrier" business. It is listed as his primary occupation. Why are you arguing this? PF was the "local guy" when you needed serviced? Do you know how small Florissant is? Have you been there? That area is desert ranch country backed up to the Rocky Mountains. No one who is listed as a farrier sits around waiting for a call to put shoes on old Midnight. You've got to hustle for a living. You've got to be at stock shows and rodeos and fairgrounds. We know PF was a competitive roper.

PF is also a cattle broker. A cattle broker goes out and networks, finds cattle to buy and sell. That is a job that also requires hustling for a living. Who drags their baby out to stranger's ranches to inspect their livestock for sale? Do you leave them in the truck when you're watching them go through the chute for vaccinations? Do you set their carrier on the ground where there are snakes? How about all the manure and horse flies?

PF's mother is at home in a nice house, able to care for his daughter while he is at work. Why are people insisting that wouldn't have happened?

 

[scmom]

Am starting to think the restaurant deal is bigger than phone texts.

Overnight I tested a theory

I placed my phone in airplane mode.

Then typed two text messages

They did not send

Then I turned it off for the night

In the morning I turned it on and texts launched

Thus, KB could have texted Thursday afternoon ... had it in airplane mode ... left the house ... was harmed... somebody found her phone at the side of the road in Idaho ... turned it on and the texts were sent

Interesting theory, but isn't it possible someone other than KB could have done the same thing if they were in possession of her phone?

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

This is my first post, so be kind if I mess up. A few thoughts that I have had as I've read about this case.

*KB's mother is a 7th Day Adventist? Correct? She also claims that KB is strong in her faith. Is PF of the same faith? It's my understanding that 7th Day Adventists frown upon interfaith marriage. This is pure speculation, but if KB is strong in her faith and PF is not this may explain the lack of movement on the marriage front, and what seems on the surface, like previously existing family dynamic tensions. Along this line, it may also explain why PF does not seem to be allowing generous access to the grandchild. Again......this is all PURE SPECULATION.

*I've seen many posts questioning drug/alcohol issues on the part of KB. With reference to religion, again, IF KB is faithful to her beliefs, she would not have those issues as they don't partake. Not proof....not verifiable....but also explains why she'd be outspoken about abstention (as per some past posts) without addiction issues.

Now, facts. The facts have been held very closely to LE's vest (so to speak). The glaring facts that stand out and need to be highlighted (imho) are:

- A young healthy woman with a child woke up on Thanksgiving morning and began her day. She baked cinnamon rolls. She chatted with her mother on the phone (Her mother - who has nothing to gain/lose by lying and who's only interest in this case is locating her missing daughter). She told her mother that she was looking forward to decorating for Christmas, that she was going out for Thanksgiving dinner with her fiancé, and that she needed a recipe her mother had. There was no indication on that call that anything was wrong, no distress, no duress. (again...as per mother with nothing to gain by lying, she spoke hopefully and happily of her future)

- Mother takes daughter grocery shopping (preparing for? doesn't matter....purchases for the future)

- Mom leaves fresh baking out on counter

Now just take a moment to assess this woman's life. She's under 30. She's a mother. She owns her own home. She has a career she loves. She has a beautiful child. She owns two vehicles. She obviously has worked very hard to be successful. Does any of this sound like a person prone to addiction? To depression so severe it would hamper her ability to function?

This is as far as we know for sure. Here is where we have to rely on PF version of events henceforth.

PF picks up daughter. Oh and by the way, they broke up the day before - the engagement is off.

Three days later.....PF got a text from her.

And let's take a moment to assess what we know about PF. 30 Something man, lives on mini ranch with his mother. Is rodeo/farrier/dog trainer his dream occupation? Unknown, but perhaps. Lawyered up (smart) before anyone even realized this was an issue. Speaking only through his lawyer.

Look, I do not want to accuse, but horses people, not zebras. It really doesn't look good for finding KB. It also really does not look good for ever holding any responsible for it.

 

[Wsimm]

The interview that CB did with KOAA5 is interesting. CB states “She (KB) had been excited to decorate for Christmas and excited about that, but she thought maybe her fiancé and K were planning to get the Christmas tree themselves and so she was holding off on buying something”. Did PF procure a Christmas tree between Nov 22-25th? What was KB holding off to purchase...a tree skirt, ornaments or possibly her own damn tree? A baby and a dad are making Christmas tree arrangements? Is it just me or is that a pretty incredible baby or a very distant relationship?

 

[Cherokee]

I think you are making assumptions. I have heard from people who have knowledge of farriers that they sometimes take their children along. I could see that here. MOO

Maybe children but babies?

 

[MassGuy]

I seem to recall where LE did this in another case - wish I could remember which one. And one of our verified attorney's may be able to answer about disclosure.

ETA - I believe they need a warrant to do this.

It does require a warrant.

I don’t think they’d put on on his vehicle prior to returning it to him though.

He’d be expecting that.

 

[oviedo]

So is that a "yes"?

If they did have dinner together, I would think he could have said - we had dinner. I do not believe he did - so am speculating they did not eat together. IMO that Safeway trip was her last

 

[mistivon]

I seem to recall where LE did this in another case - wish I could remember which one. And one of our verified attorney's may be able to answer about disclosure.

ETA - I believe they need a warrant to do this.

Oh I remember....an old case....Valerie Jackson

Cops Challenged on GPS Use

 

[MassGuy]

If they did have dinner together, I would think he could have said - we had dinner. I do not believe he did - so am speculating they did not eat together. IMO that Safeway trip was her last

I agree. The timeline seems to end when he picked up the child from her.

It doesn’t continue, to include a later “dinner date.”

This would be a big deal.