CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

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We are definitely short on facts to do much reasoning! I think that frustrating for all of us.

Not to be difficult but where is it confirmed that PF is a full time, or even frequent farrier in the last year or so of his life? It’s also said that he does other things to make money. Her mother said something about money being short because of the price of cattle and he lives with his mom which may be economical. Isn’t it conceivable that he could be doing some care of his mom and the baby, rather than paid work, at least some portion of his time?
 
It is a piece of the puzzle. It just needs to be viewed for what it is. An indication that KB had no intention of not returning. i.e. Wherever she is right now, it's not voluntary.

I agree. I don’t think the cinnamon rolls are trying to tell us any great secrets. I just think the fact that they were left out indicates KB was not really intending to be away for a week or more. If she was, she would have put them away or thrown them out. It’s hinky.

Also hinky is the fact that her SO, whom she probably saw and communicated with daily at least regarding their child, failed to report her missing.

I’m just having a hard time viewing those things together and not seeing that something went very wrong.

Jmo.
 
Maybe she was shopping last minute to prepare for dinner at her place. PF then came over, they had dinner, he stayed the night, they had cinnamon rolls the next morning and went Xmas tree hunting. This makes sense to me. I don't know why.
But why do you want to believe something that by all accounts did not happen. PF told LE he last saw KR on 11/22 Thanksgiving. He could have just as easily said he spent the night and last saw her 11/23, 24, 25 or whenever. MOO
 
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Why would an unknown assailant text her work and the fiance?
You would really have to go out on a limb to come up with a possible scenario...like a stranger abducted KB, started driving her somewhere, realized he could buy himself some time if no one was looking for her, so he made her send the text messages to throw people off. Then he somehow got massively lucky because no one questioned the text messages and thus no one was looking for KB. Does it fit the facts? Sure, but this isn't a Hollywood movie. It's more likely the perpetrator knew KB.
 
Ruling unlikely unknown person out...

I’m sure she walked out on her own to hand something off or to go to dinner, and was either pulled into or got into a vehicle. And there is a third location.

And if she had her purse and cell, then she was probably going to dinner.
Assuming you don’t know who that person is, that’s what I mean by an unknown assailant.

I’d really like to know if she locked her door when she left (as she might do if she just grabbed her purse and left with someone). And was she ever known to catch a ride with someone previously? I’m having a hard time believing nobody knows who she’s been known to be around.
 
Maybe she was shopping last minute to prepare for dinner at her place. PF then came over, they had dinner, he stayed the night, they had cinnamon rolls the next morning and went Xmas tree hunting. This makes sense to me. I don't know why.

I’m assuming there is a reason that LE seems to be suggesting that there is no evidence of Kelsey doing anything beyond Thanksgiving Day (ie. no internet or phone activity after a certain point? etc.) At least, that is the impression I get. MOO
 
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That’s awfully unlikely.

There’s a much more likely explanation, one that is far simpler.

The UNSUB and PF are one in the same.

Most crimes are of convenience ... robbery, theft.

For PF ... we are short a crime, crime scene, a body, a murder weapon ... a bit short on motive ... we have an abundance of conflicts ... we do not even have a timeline.

We have a strikingly beautiful mother

And we have an evil cowboy

Cowboys are always the bad guy

And both the search of the townhouse and his house looks they turned up little

Am hoping the truck talks!
 
Hi all,

Random question, if they return PF’s truck to him and put a tracker on it do they have to disclose that to him? I mean, it seems like they would but then he’d probably just drive another vehicle. Anyone know?

That's a good question and the answer is that they would have to have a search warrant allowing them to do so and they would not have to tell him.
 
"Cheryl Berreth said she spoke to her daughter on Thanksgiving morning, just a couple of hours before she seen grocery shopping with her baby, and that she had given no indication she was heading up to Idaho.

“She needed a recipe, she had something she wanted to make that afternoon,” Cheryl told Inside Edition.

“There was the possibility of going out for (Thanksgiving) dinner.”"

Strange twists and turns of missing pilot mum case

Mrs. Berreth doesn't define who Kelsey might be going out to dinner with. It could have been PF. Or it might have been a coworker, friend, someone from her church or even by herself. If someone has a link that says dinner was with PF please link it up. I like to stay fact-based.

Here is where it was previously quoted and posted: CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

From scdiv's post there:
The admin and CB comments from Missing Mother - Kelsey Berreth facebook page - On December 6 post at 10:25 a.m. - were:

"I spoke with her a couple of times that morning. Going out for dinner was in the plan. We know she had picked up a few things at Safeway.

and

"She was going out to dinner with her fiance and daughter. She didn't say where."


In CB's media interview, I believe she simply said, "Going out to dinner was a possibility."
 
"Cheryl Berreth said she spoke to her daughter on Thanksgiving morning, just a couple of hours before she seen grocery shopping with her baby, and that she had given no indication she was heading up to Idaho.

“She needed a recipe, she had something she wanted to make that afternoon,” Cheryl told Inside Edition.

“There was the possibility of going out for (Thanksgiving) dinner.”"

Strange twists and turns of missing pilot mum case

Mrs. Berreth doesn't define who Kelsey might be going out to dinner with. It could have been PF. Or it might have been a coworker, friend, someone from her church or even by herself. If someone has a link that says dinner was with PF please link it up. I like to stay fact-based.
On the family approved fb site missing mother-kelsey berreth, someone asked what Kelsey's plan were that Thanksgiving. CB responded "I spoke with her a couple of times that morning. Going out for dinner was in the plan. We know she had picked up a few things at Safeway". The person asked "did she with who or where?"
And CB responded, "She was going with her fiance and daughter, she didn't say where".
I believe this FB page has been okay'd to post because it's been verified by the family so this is the link to the page. It's about half way down the page. I'm a dunce and can't figure out how to screen shot a particular post from there. ;) Missing Mother - Kelsey Berreth
 
Most crimes are of convenience ... robbery, theft.

For PF ... we are short a crime, crime scene, a body, a murder weapon ... a bit short on motive ... we have an abundance of conflicts ... we do not even have a timeline.

We have a strikingly beautiful mother

And we have an evil cowboy

Cowboys are always the bad guy

And both the search of the townhouse and his house looks they turned up little

Am hoping the truck talks!
We’re lacking a ton of details here.

The picture we have is a vague one, and certainly leaves open many doors.

The evidence is strong enough to cast suspicion, but it is by no means strong enough to answer the important questions.

It’s not enough to say “he did it.”

Not yet anyways.

But I’m still looking in one direction.
 
If I disappeared right now, as I sit here and stare at my messy kitchen, LE would be like: Well, she made coffee 10 times, and fed her cat, and had Samosas...but left one out...a week ago...so that means she disappeared...sometime before the cat died.
And we'd have hundreds of posts about why someone would leave a cat without food or water, how pet feeding stations would prevent pets of missing owners from dying and a side debate about whether cats should be indoor or outdoor pets complete with a entire philosophical discussion about owning a living thing.
 
Imagine those cinnamon rolls being the simple ones, pop the can kind. Not from scratch using a recipe. Few mins in the oven. Yes for her and the baby. Left out on stove all day like I do.
Maybe, but as a baker, and looking at her pinterest where there are recipes for from scratch cinnamon buns, she could have made them the real way too!
 
I have an honest, sincere question.

Do you see a difference between people accusing/labeling CB with mental health issues vs. people saying that one of the possible explanations is that she left due to stress, mental health etc.?

Because I don't feel like most people here are engaging in victim bashing--which is deplorable. But I do think there's a few people saying, let's not rule out any possibilities based on our opinions...let's wait until we have facts to exclude each option.

While I still think it's most likely that Kelsey met with foul play at the hands of someone she knew, the facts leave other possibilities open.

For example...
There has been no evidence of a struggle.
They haven't found a body.
PF doesn't have a criminal record.
They haven't *yet* released anything incriminating they found on the farm, if they found anything at all.

So in addition to me believing Kelsey most likely was abducted/harmed by someone known to her, I also keep other possibilities open and I advocate for doing so. Statistics, as well as my experience here on WS, leads me to believe that sometimes missing persons cases turn out to be best explained by the less likely scenarios.

Some people who have disappeared were not killed by their last known partners. Some...

--were killed by their spouse (CW)
--were killed by an acquaintance (Mollie T.)
--were killed in an accident (Toni A.)
--faked their own disappearance (Abbygail F.)
--committed suicide (Kristin W.)
--re-started life and lived elsewhere for years (Brenda H.)

While we think foul play is most likely, we don't know which of any of these or other explanations might apply to Kelsey. Because in many cases right here on WS, families are surprised by the details that come out about their loved one's struggles...and we don't know if that could end up being the case here.

But, for many of us, there is enough to suggest we keep other options open.

For example...
We know Kelsey's phone pinged a tower in Idaho.
We know LE publicly said that if KB left on her own and didn't want to be bothered, she could just contact them.
Her own mother said she believes KB is out there.
Her own aunt asked truckers to be on the lookout for KB.
Her own cousin said the reason there was a delay in reporting KB missing is a "long story" and we will understand it when all the information comes out.
Kelsey's social media posts do include more than one post that include hashtags about recovery and other challenges...(although we have no idea how or if these applied to anyone in her life)

So even though I think Kelsey Berreth sounds like an outstanding human being who is compassionate and caring and has, as far as I know, a great track record of being responsible and stable, that doesn't mean she couldn't have human moments of vulnerability or need extra support or space. And it DOESN'T mean I or others judge her if she did encounter one of these very human lows. Which of us hasn't had a stretch where we faced more challenge and felt more overwhelmed than others?

To the contrary, I say it's because we care that we insist on a true search...and we leave the option open just in case it could prompt other helpful avenues of exploration or trigger additional locations where she might be found.

I'm all for you insisting people be polite and balanced in how they reference this issue. Victim bashing is deplorable. But there are many unknowns here. And what we do know could still end up being explained several different ways. So when people are respectful and use facts to suggest reasonable alternatives within WS' TOS, I don't think they should be shamed for it.

Unless users are disrespectful or asserting false ideas as fact. And then, yes, by all means, report, report, report.
There’s a stigma attached with mental health issues. And addiction too for that matter. To suggest that KB may have had such issues or sought treatment will trigger a defensive response. I don’t think such talk is necessarily meant to be even the slightest bit derogatory, but it can and will be perceived as such.

That said, I could believe that she’d fall off the grid for those reasons for a week or so. After three weeks I don’t see that as plausible anymore.
 
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