CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #58

[Tippy Lynn]

Prayers for the Berreth family as they face another tough week.

 

[MyBelle]

No, LE has never explained how they found nothing, and then had a picture. Perhaps an explanation will come when that evidence is introduced. IMO

I look forward to the explanation because I've wondered about it for awhile.

iirc, the wording used to describe his second trip to the condo was "reason to believe it was PF" or something similarly vague.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I look forward to the explanation because I've wondered about it for awhile.

iirc, the wording used to describe his second trip to the condo was "reason to believe it was PF" or something similarly vague.

JMO

The arrest warrant says “...an individual that matches the description of Frazee...”

Fortunately, @GoJacks was in the courtroom, and provided us the following description of those photos:

Pictures are VERY clear and close. Obvious it's PF and in same clothes he's in at ENT.


Still Missing - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #58

 

[MemPat]

The arrest warrant says “...an individual that matches the description of Frazee...”

Fortunately, @GoJacks was in the courtroom, and provided us the following description of those photos:

Pictures are VERY clear and close. Obvious it's PF and in same clothes he's in at ENT.


Still Missing - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #58

GoJacks for the win!
Also no "poor acoustics" errors.

 

[MyBelle]

CB actually witnessed first hand PF's behavior and I hope they will touch on that more tomorrow. Attacking KB's character gently or not won't help to defend PF against murder charges.

I just don't see how anything KB shared with her mom could work in PF's favor. In conversations with her mom KB could have done the following:

a.) Shared everything and was completely honest. If KB did this than her relationship with PF seemed toxic.

b.) Sugar coated things so that her mother wouldn't worry. If KB did this than her relationship with PF was likely much more toxic than we think so...yikes!

c.) She omitted facts to make herself look better and/or for some strange reason lied about PF to make him look worse. Once again, if KB did this than her relationship with PF was much more toxic than we think so again yikes!

JMO.

Last note...I'll be anxious until the verdict is read so you're not alone!

BBM. The fact that KB's last conversation with her mom included mention of her trip in the middle of the night with PF to help with the cattle AND the fact that she made a trip to Walmart to get gastro medicine for his upset stomach AND that they may go to dinner that night.

Does that sound like actions a woman would take if she was afraid of the man? The prosecution wants the jury to believe just hours later, inside a small condo that shared a common wall with a neighbor, PF shattered KB's head like a pinata. I think that is going to be a difficult leap for the jury.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. The fact that KB's last conversation with her mom included mention of her trip in the middle of the night with PF to help with the cattle AND the fact that she made a trip to Walmart to get gastro medicine for his upset stomach AND that they may go to dinner that night.

Does that sound like actions a woman would take if she was afraid of the man? The prosecution wants the jury to believe just hours later, inside a small condo that shared a common wall with a neighbor, PF shattered KB's head like a pinata. I think that is going to be a difficult leap for the jury.

JMO

Or, and bear with me here, it makes perfect sense.

He lulled her into a sense of security, and made her feel like things were improving. When her guard was down, he took full advantage of that.

Putting on a blindfold would be contingent upon a level of trust, a level of trust that jibes perfectly with the contents of that phone call to Cheryl.

She still cared for him, as evident in her actions the night before he killed her.

The only leap, would be if the jury ignored the blood under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and behind the couch cushions.

Which corroborates the account that Kelsey was battered to death by this monster.

 

[Seattle1]

Do we know when we can get the next trial tweets? Should we expect 1:00? Or sooner.

This was tweet by KOAA/Sam last Weds:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Sam Kraemer Retweeted ******

Yep, we'll be there. We are not allowed to live-report in anyway -- so we'll likely share updates during lunch & at the end of the day.

4:14 PM - 30 Oct 2019


I think there will be a schedule in place come Monday for lunch, etc. so I think it's likely we might see transmissions around lunchtime and early evening.

 

[Steelslady]

It is. Especially since whatever PF (Poisonous Fck'r) and his "Stain On the Nursing proffesion", partner in crime, hoped to accomplish has been thwarted.

The only thing I can come up with, is perhaps there is something about her remains or some evidence in the place where they hid her, that they don't want revealed. I hope when all is said and done, we will find out where she is and she can come home to her family.

I do hope there is some remains of her for her family to bury- even ashes.

God, I don't envy the Berreth family or families like them. How haunting and torturing this has to be for a parent and siblings. I am grateful that they have Baby K, who is no doubt keeping them going, and helping them fight for not only justice for Kelsey, but for the safety of their granddaughter.

 

[MemPat]

Or, and bear with me here, it makes perfect sense.

He lulled her into a sense of security, and made her feel like things were improving. When her guard was down, he took full advantage of that.

Putting on a blindfold would be contingent upon a level of trust, a level of trust that jibes perfectly with the contents of that phone call to Cheryl.

She still cared for him, as evident in her actions the night before he killed her.

The only leap, would be if the jury ignored the blood under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and behind the couch cushions.

Which corroborates the account that Kelsey was battered to death by this monster.

Having recently watched a similar scenario play out with a malignant narcissist and a kind young woman (my daughter) who desperately wanted to keep her family together, this happens.

He would go a few days, maybe a week, pretending to be the good gonna-love-you-'til-the-end-of-time person he once was and then slip back into Mr. Crazy mode. He manipulated her and kept just enough hope alive to meet his needs, knowing she wanted her daughter raised in a home with both parents.

And, yes, he made up tales about her that, thankfully, people knew not to believe.

Thank goodness, she's done with him and divorced but it was terribly stressful and, yes, she often didn't tell her father and me all the nasty details because she didn't want us to worry.

This is all so common for people with this behavior disorder.

 

[katydid23]

Or, and bear with me here, it makes perfect sense.

He lulled her into a sense of security, and made her feel like things were improving. When her guard was down, he took full advantage of that.

Putting on a blindfold would be contingent upon a level of trust, a level of trust that jibes perfectly with the contents of that phone call to Cheryl.

She still cared for him, as evident in her actions the night before he killed her.

The only leap, would be if the jury ignored the blood under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and behind the couch cushions.

Which corroborates the account that Kelsey was battered to death by this monster.

It does make perfect sense, I agree. Some may not understand it, but I think the jury will because the DA will spell it out for them.

It needs to be seen in context. Seen in the big picture---the way PF set her up. Telling lies about her to friends and family, and his girlfriend.

But then acting lovey-dovey with her, and acting nice and polite around her family, acting as if he is planning to buy a ranch with her--instead of planning her death and the disposal of her remains.

 

[Steelslady]

..

 

[steeltowngirl]

Looking at this list, it does appear 3 Frazees are on the witness list. I definitely want to hear what they have to say.
(They saw nothing unusual....?
The phone calls to them from pf were just normal chit chat....?
Saw no evil, heard no evil, spoke no evil....?)
Staying tuned.

I’m already a few pages behind from earlier today, but for clarity - the list I posted upthread is definitely NOT a witness list, just my own collection of notes on various people and places that have been covered in media and documents. I think some of these names and places likely will be mentioned during the trial and reports will come fast and furious so just wanted to gather some of it in one place so I’d be ready and thought I’d share.

I apologize for any confusion I caused.

 

[Colorado303]

How many people do we have on this thread in Colorado w/i 2-3 hour drive (or less) of the trial?

 

[Best of What's Around]

BBM. The fact that KB's last conversation with her mom included mention of her trip in the middle of the night with PF to help with the cattle AND the fact that she made a trip to Walmart to get gastro medicine for his upset stomach AND that they may go to dinner that night.

Does that sound like actions a woman would take if she was afraid of the man? The prosecution wants the jury to believe just hours later, inside a small condo that shared a common wall with a neighbor, PF shattered KB's head like a pinata. I think that is going to be a difficult leap for the jury.

JMO

Because KB would not have seen it coming? Like the others of thousands of women murdered by their husbands or boyfriends every year? Like Shanann Watts? Statistics show there will be red flags, but they rarely see it coming.

Unfortunately for KB but fortunately for justice after the fact, other people saw it coming because PF was too much of a coward to do it himself the first few months he tried to get it done - and too lazy to clean up after himself when he finally did. He is a vile piece of scum, and I do not see how the jury can escape that. The phone records alone prove beyond any reasonable doubt who committed this crime IMO.

There is almost as much evidence here as there was in the Watts case. I think the evidence is just overwhelming.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

BBM. The fact that KB's last conversation with her mom included mention of her trip in the middle of the night with PF to help with the cattle AND the fact that she made a trip to Walmart to get gastro medicine for his upset stomach AND that they may go to dinner that night.

Does that sound like actions a woman would take if she was afraid of the man? The prosecution wants the jury to believe just hours later, inside a small condo that shared a common wall with a neighbor, PF shattered KB's head like a pinata. I think that is going to be a difficult leap for the jury.

JMO

Yes @MyBelle, those actually do sound like actions a woman would take if she was afraid of a man. She was submitting to almost unreasonable demands that night. So I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Best of What's Around]

How many people do we have on this thread in Colorado w/i 2-3 hour drive (or less) of the trial?

Hand raised.

 

[Colorado303]

Not sure if she's a victim. I need more info I guess. She seemed a little too eager for kb's demise.

There’s not one iota of me that believes there’s even one iota of her that is a victim. Not one.

 

[steeltowngirl]

BBM. The fact that KB's last conversation with her mom included mention of her trip in the middle of the night with PF to help with the cattle AND the fact that she made a trip to Walmart to get gastro medicine for his upset stomach AND that they may go to dinner that night.

Does that sound like actions a woman would take if she was afraid of the man? The prosecution wants the jury to believe just hours later, inside a small condo that shared a common wall with a neighbor, PF shattered KB's head like a pinata. I think that is going to be a difficult leap for the jury.

JMO

We haven’t heard enough yet to know if she was afraid of him. Sadly, there’s a chance she wasn’t aware of the horrific danger she was in. Had she been, she might have got away and still be alive today.

Just ran across this article today. “When it comes to domestic violence, appearances can be deceiving”, said Sherrylynn Boyles, executive director of TESSA, the Colorado Springs domestic violence prevention organization, which serves thousands of victims annually. “It’s hardly uncommon for perpetrators to be outwardly perceived as caring. Victims often describe their partners as ‘very charming, charismatic and kind,’ Boyles said.

Friends saw Patrick Frazee as doting father and hard-working rancher; possible motive for Kelsey Berreth killing revealed

 

[MyBelle]

Having recently watched a similar scenario play out with a malignant narcissist and a kind young woman (my daughter) who desperately wanted to keep her family together, this happens.

He would go a few days, maybe a week, pretending to be the good gonna-love-you-'til-the-end-of-time person he once was and then slip back into Mr. Crazy mode. He manipulated her and kept just enough hope alive to meet his needs, knowing she wanted her daughter raised in a home with both parents.

And, yes, he made up tales about her that, thankfully, people knew not to believe.

Thank goodness, she's done with him and divorced but it was terribly stressful and, yes, she often didn't tell her father and me all the nasty details because she didn't want us to worry.

This is common behavior for people with this behavior disorder.

All too common and it is a behavior disorder that needs more attention, especially from family court judges, because it is harming children. These men don't initially come across as narcissists. I refer to them as covert, toxic narcissists because they initially come across as charming, wanting to impress parents, especially mothers, as much as the daughter. But when we learn these men are sons of toxic, narcissistic women, the red flags abound. Their lack of empathy, including toward their own kids, is astounding.

I'm willing to wait to pass judgment on PF until after I hear all the evidence. But, there is something very 'off' about this case: I still don't know if it was PF who wanted custody or if it was his mother.

What I have learned about covert toxic men is based on the father of my grandchildren. He's the son of a toxic, narcissistic mother. I'm wondering if PF has the same type of mother.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Yes @MyBelle, those actually do sound like actions a woman would take if she was afraid of a man. She was submitting to almost unreasonable demands that night. So I guess we'll agree to disagree.

BBM. We'll agree to disagree. KB didn't tell her mother she was forced nor did it raise alarm with her mother. In fact, I believe CB testified she phoned PF to tell him she hoped he was feeling better.

JMO