CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

[steeltowngirl]

See #7

So there are NINE layers?
Even better!
#7 for KK still gets my vote.

 

[gitana1]

KK facilitated the murder of Kelsey and it is enraging to some of the posters on here, me included, that she is basically walking away and most likely won't spend a night in jail yet alone do any time prison.

But that’s not a rational excuse for ignoring the facts and evidence and coming up with alternate theories that aren’t close to being based on logic.

I mean it’s an admission that one’s bias is so strong that a rational assessment of the case can not occur.

But it’s odd to me. I mean to cast aside the overwhelming evidence in the case claiming it’s not enough, it’s not credible, it can be explained away, while embracing mere speculation and creating evidence where non exists, is unfathomable for many of us. And frustrating.

 

[GordianKnot]

You know what? Everybody knows that! To me, pf needed a woman's support for everything he's ever done, and this is no exception.

You can excuse her all you want. As can the law. But I won't.

BBM:

To clarify my position re: KK.
I don't want to, nor have I, "excused" KK.
I've been expressly clear in my condemnation of KK's actions and inactions r/t KB's murder.

I've made literally dozens of posts in the past blasting KK for her reprehensible actions.
I've stated repeatedly that she's a vile human being.
I have never made excuses for KK, because what she did (and didn't do) is inexcusable.

Having said that, my focus right now is entirely on PF, and when I say entirely, I mean, 100% of my focus is on PF.

The minute that sweetie beauty of a deal with KK was inked, it made no sense to me to dwell on her role and/or her culpability, because quite frankly, in practical terms, it doesn't matter what I think of her. In practical terms, it doesn't matter what any of us think of her, or believe about her, or what punishment we wish she would receive.

A deal's a deal....
And it's a done deal.

It's really just about being pragmatical.
The person who murdered KB with a baseball bat needs to be brought to justice.
PF needs to be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

KK is a side piece in every sense of the word.
Since she gave her testimony, I haven't given KK a second thought.
I don't care about KK.
But the fact that I don't choose to focus on KK, and that I don't care about her at this point, in no way means I or others who choose not to expend our energies on thinking about or talking about the side piece, excuse her.

Again, to be clear: Nobody here excuses KK.

JMO.

 

[scdiv]

Sam's live fb video has started... I will try to take some notes for anyone interested. Excuse me if any expletives slip in - I'm also watching the niners game. :/

 

[Safeguard]

Living among lambs doesn't "rub off" on wolves.
They don't start frolicking innocently within the fold.
The wolves just devour the lambs.
It's what predators do.

Amen!

But that’s not a rational excuse for ignoring the facts and evidence and coming up with alternate theories that aren’t close to being based on logic.

I have yet to see any "alternate theories". If you have, do tell.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Myself, no. Maybe SF? We'll see. The other characters on the periphery appeared to be guilty of believing the horse manure PF shovelled their way and while they may have been fooled by him that isn't a crime. What bothers me is that nobody did anything and that's not a crime either. So far other than KK and the Idaho crew and their "revelations" for their moment of infamous fame, JM's testimony was another kick in the gut. He knew what PF was saying but just didn't believe he meant it? What's worse, after KB goes "missing" he still doesn't clue in?? All not criminal, just really, really stupid! JMHO of course

I love this post. Agree x100

 

[NuttMegg]

BBM:

To clarify my position re: KK.
I don't want to, nor have I, "excused" KK.
I've been expressly clear in my condemnation of KK's actions and inactions r/t KB's murder.

I've made literally dozens of posts in the past blasting KK for her reprehensible actions.
I've stated repeatedly that she's a vile human being.
I have never made excuses for KK, because what she did (and didn't do) is inexcusable.

Having said that, my focus right now is entirely on PF, and when I say entirely, I mean, 100% of my focus is on PF.

The minute that sweetie beauty of a deal with KK was inked, it made no sense to me to dwell on her role and/or her culpability, because quite frankly, in practical terms, it doesn't matter what I think of her. In practical terms, it doesn't mean what any of us think of her, or believe about her, or what punishment we wish she would receive.

A deal's a deal....
And it's a done deal.

It's really just about being pragmatical.
The person who murdered KB with a baseball bat needs to be brought to justice.
PF needs to be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

KK is a side piece in every sense of the word.
Since she gave her testimony, I haven't given KK a second thought.
I don't care about KK.
But the fact that I don't choose to focus on KK, and that I don't care about her at this point, in no way means I or others who choose not to expend our energies on thinking about or talking about the side piece, excuse her.

Again, to be clear: Nobody here excuses KK.

JMO.

I just don't see any point in focusing on her more than the murderer. These trials went on all the time with the mob, one gangster who was equally as bad as the target gangster turned snitch. I'm not minimizing what she did, but if what she turned over to le is the truth, and it puts pf in a cell right by watts, that's ok with me. I don't want him to ever have influence over that baby. That right there is enough to focus on him.

 

[panther518]

So just wondering if somehow PF gets off are a few of the people on this board going to be celebrating? Sure seems like it and I’m disgusted.

Kelsey was a beautiful person and shame on those trying to take the blame off her killer, I can only hope you don’t find yourself in her families situation having to read a message board where the killer is practically being defended!

 

[scdiv]

Sam Kraemer's live Facebook video on Monday, November 11, 2019

- Sam is talking about Radar the canine dog. He has never had a false hit. His handler said he would have brought him to court, but was afraid he would slobber everywhere. Many in court laughed. PF did not.
- Dog at ranch... showed interest in the hay bales. Sat which indicated a hit at the bottom of the hay bales. Saw stains at top of hay bales. So they went up their with a John Deere tractor. The hay is indented - discolored, brown, looked wet. Radar indicated that on top of the bale as well. Notes say that PF watched the video of this in court intently.
- Cross examination - they cannot confirm that it was definitely a decomposing body. The handler said he had never asked the canine to search hay before.
- Bloodhound named Lucy also trained to search for decomposing bodies. Handler's name is Eberly (?). Lucy is trained. When Lucy detects a hit, she will lay down at the source. Also certified as an expert by the judge. She went to KB's home. Ran around KB's driveway to search for decomposing body or scent of decomposition. Ties in with what KK said about where she put the trash bags after cleaning KB's property. Near KB's Toyota Corolla. Lucy too has never given a false positive. In training, she does miss some things. But 90-95% accurate.
- Lucy was asked to search interior of home. Gave indication of pair of underwear upstairs. Eberly had not known then that the home had been bleached. Lucy did not indicate anything in living room, baby gates, etc. The dogs did not pick up on all the blood that KK said was there.
- Jury asked a few questions. The handlers don't remember smelling bleach in the room. The dogs have never done any training with bleach because that would be harmful to the dogs, would not want to expose them to bleach in training.
- Defense asked if they were given any indication why they would have dogs there and handlers said that the dogs were there to look for any decomposing scent.

- Senior director of security of KK's hospital, noting that KK's ID badge did access the building on November 21 and 23. She was excused without ANY cross examination. (My note: so the defense did not even try to argue that KK wasn't in the work building those days......)

- KK's father recalls going to Chad and KK's home. KK was there the whole time, aside from being gone for like an hour to deal with cows. Saw KK the next evening, just prior to her leaving to Colorado. Did not know PF. KK had spoken about him. Didn't think he liked what he was hearing. KK was the easiest of his children to raise. She likes people and she likes people to like her. Been a nurse for 4 or 5 years. She would go visit her mother in Colorado.

 

[NuttMegg]

Amen!

I have yet to see any "alternate theories". If you have, do tell.

There was at least one alternate theory presented last night by a different poster.that there was some yet unidentified person that joined in with kk for the murder, and that pf was just off doing something with livestock. Deja vu all over again watts case.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Anyone else keep hoping Sam Kraemer will say “Franch” during his FB live?

 

[scdiv]

Sam's video notes..

- Sonic general manager Shannon on stand... she provided LE videos...
- Stephanie Courtney - DA's office investigator that reviews some of the video they they get.. back on stand...they essentially found a black Volkswagen passet that KK was driving, belonging to her friend Megan... were able to see that vehicle on the video.. could definitely show that KK was in the stills of those videos...

 

[MassGuy]

Anyone else keep hoping Sam Kraemer will say “Franch” during his FB live?

Sam’s looking a bit rough tonight. It would appear he had fun at his friend’s wedding.

 

[scdiv]

- IT manager for Conoco... provided video for a few dates including November 24... 52 minutes worth of video...
- State called Chris Adams, commander for Woodland Park police, also works for CBI, asked him to review the Conoco video... 4:17pm..I think you can see the Volkswagen. 4:32 shows PF truck... 4:48 his truck leave the area... the Volkswagen does not.. read the license plate and determined it was registered to PF. Can see the gas can. He filled up the gas can.. tote is not visible. 6:57... trucks turns back in... 6:59... truck comes back into view.. 9:37.. Volkswagen turns back into the parking lot... 9:40... car pulls back out... PF's truck leaves second (double check all these... typing fast as Sam talks...) But essentially, the video validates everything KK said on the stand... The review showed all of these activities were consistent... including which way the car/truck turned, etc. All aligns with KK story.
- Asked Adams if he recalled a receipt from Conoco... he said yes, searching PF's property.
- Very much making a point that the 6 gallon gas can they keep seeing is the one in evidence.
- KK said she was in Colorado October 21 before spending the night on October 22

 

[Safeguard]

Ha! Oh there are alternate theories, just scroll back to last night:

A third party.

PF drugged KB with drugs provided by KK.

Her body wasn’t burned in the fire.

KB took the body back to Idaho.

KK is the actual killer.

Well, there's a crazy being humored for sure, but most of us are somewhere near the ball park. And I have yet to see the actual 'alternative theory' spelled out.

 

[MassGuy]

Well, there's a crazy being humored for sure, but most of us are somewhere near the ball park. And I have yet to see the actual 'alternative theory' spelled out.

Oh, I wasn’t referring to you. And no, no one is really spelling an alternative theory out, as it’s impossible to do so using evidence.

So the tactic is to flat out ignore everything the prosecution has presented, to include evidence that most of us find damning.

But the implication is clear.

 

[panther518]

Is it possible more texts would be released between PF & KB? I just can’t wrap my mind around this relationship. Would there be any evidence there as to mental abuse on his part?

 

[MassGuy]

Is it possible more texts would be released between PF & KB? I just can’t wrap my mind around this relationship. Would there be any evidence there as to mental abuse on his part?

Anything is possible. We know law enforcement seized PF’s phone, and there’s no telling what they found on it.

Hopefully we hear about that evidence this week.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

There was at least one alternate theory presented last night by a different poster.that there was some yet unidentified person that joined in with kk for the murder, and that pf was just off doing something with livestock. Deja vu all over again watts case.

Pfffffft. She still can't be in two places at once. Idaho/Colorado. No one has yet come up with a way to achieve that feat of physics.

 

[NuttMegg]

Well, there's a crazy being humored for sure, but most of us are somewhere near the ball park. And I have yet to see the actual 'alternative theory' spelled out.

Alternate theory = red herring. In this case, in my opinion.