CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

[afitzy]

Did I hear correctly in Sam's live that PF told the last gal he was 'the exclusive package'?

I think it was more along the lines that he wanted to give her, "...the exclusive package".

Creep.

MOO

 

[moonlessnight]

does this indicate there was a bullet shot from the gun at some point?

Haaa -- ya'll had me convinced the gun was in the glove box and I dreamed it was under the seat!!

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
On cross, Garrison was asked about the bullet missing from her 9mm gun beneath the driver’s seat. She couldn’t remember telling the FBI if one was missing from the chamber when asked by Stiegerwald. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

8:46 AM - 12 Nov 2019

 

[afitzy]

The last one.

I thought it sounded like the witness being referred to by Sam was the one that was being discussed when the jury was out of the courtroom. Was this the last witness? Or, second to last?

 

[MassGuy]

I wish I could remember the name of the woman that was missing (later found deceased in a park) around that area. Her friends were looking at him as possibly doing something to her. For some reason, LE deemed it an overdose, but they had many questions about the night she disappeared. It wasn't that long ago- probably just as Kelsey came into his life, but I'll be darned if I can find out her name. I've tried every combination to find it. There was even a FB page for her, but I left it earlier this year. Now I wish I didn't delete it!

She died from exposure thanks to a deadly combination of meth and cold weather, if I recall.

It definitely didn’t look like foul play to me, and even if it was, there were other people with her at the time.

None of them named PF.

 

[skyedaze]

Dental record identifications are made from the whole dental picture normally. Which teeth are missing, which are filled-what surfaces, what material, have they had root fillings, are they chipped or worn, have any teeth had crowns etc.
The crucial factor is how big the fragment is, and what part of the tooth it came from if it is to be of any use for visual identification. A root from a molar tooth would be almost useless, (unless it was unusual-shape or size-and there were good pre existing x rays. Half of the clinical crown of a central incisor would be great.

It is reasonably easy to identify a human tooth visual, if there are any anatomical markers present. (Again it comes down to how big the fragment is, and fragment of what part of the tooth) I have read some posters speculate that it wouldn't be possible to determine that it is a human tooth. I don't agree with this at all. I think most I could identify, and I'm a dentist, not a forensic odontologist. (They are really clever!)

The fact that the fragment survived the fire is interesting. The rest of the teeth apparently didn't, and I wonder if this tooth wasn't somehow dropped or something before the fire took hold. (In my dreams I hope that it is the tooth that KL retrieved. And it may well be so)

I'm only speculating, but the DNA testing was probably of the pulp- the soft tissue within the tooth, which makes me think/hope that the tooth fragment wasn't too fire damaged.

we don't know that other teeth did not survive..we just don't know where they are.

 

[Steelslady]

She died from exposure thanks to a deadly combination of meth and cold weather, if I recall.

It definitely didn’t look like foul play to me, and even if it was, there were other people with her at the time.

None of them named PF.

Yes, that was what I had heard in the beginning, too. That's probably what happened, but she had a few friends who thought otherwise. One in particular was very angry at how LE determined her cause of death. All I know was it was not too far from where Kelsey lived. Strange as it is.

 

[Lhughessk]

Did I hear correctly in Sam's live that PF told the last gal he was 'the exclusive package'?

What he said was “all-inclusive package”. The context was that he did some farrier work for her and she had left money for him, which he did not take. She texted him asking why he didn’t take the money; that was his response. I took it to mean that he was interested in “collecting” from her in a way other than currency.

 

[afitzy]

In Sam's latest LIVE, he mentioned that there have been 36 questions from the jury so far.

Is there a compilation of all those questions anywhere? It would help us understand what they are thinking now.

Sam and some of the other commentators have been mentioning some of the questions. But I don't think anyone has compiled a list of all the questions as I'm not convinced that the Press has reported all the questions. But I agree that it would be interesting to see a list of all the juror questions.

 

[MemPat]

Can we know what they were?

If you watch the end of each of Sam's recap videos, you can hear the jurors' questions.

 

[MassGuy]

What he said was “all-inclusive package”. The context was that he did some farrier work for her and she had left money for him, which he did not take. She texted him asking why he didn’t take the money; that was his response. I took it to mean that he was interested in “collecting” from her in a way other than currency.

Yes. For a guy as hard up for cash as PF appears to have been, I think he was trying to lure her in. No way would be turn down payment from a man.

He wanted something, and it sure as hell wasn’t cash.

 

[MemPat]

Dental record identifications are made from the whole dental picture normally. Which teeth are missing, which are filled-what surfaces, what material, have they had root fillings, are they chipped or worn, have any teeth had crowns etc.
The crucial factor is how big the fragment is, and what part of the tooth it came from if it is to be of any use for visual identification. A root from a molar tooth would be almost useless, (unless it was unusual-shape or size-and there were good pre existing x rays. Half of the clinical crown of a central incisor would be great.

It is reasonably easy to identify a human tooth visual, if there are any anatomical markers present. (Again it comes down to how big the fragment is, and fragment of what part of the tooth) I have read some posters speculate that it wouldn't be possible to determine that it is a human tooth. I don't agree with this at all. I think most I could identify, and I'm a dentist, not a forensic odontologist. (They are really clever!)

The fact that the fragment survived the fire is interesting. The rest of the teeth apparently didn't, and I wonder if this tooth wasn't somehow dropped or something before the fire took hold. (In my dreams I hope that it is the tooth that KL retrieved. And it may well be so)

I'm only speculating, but the DNA testing was probably of the pulp- the soft tissue within the tooth, which makes me think/hope that the tooth fragment wasn't too fire damaged.

Wow! Thank you for the education, minusfour!

If it's human (and I believe it is), it seems impossible for it to be anything other than Kelsey's tooth that was hit with the bat and spun across the condo, landing behind the cedar chest.

 

[Kapua]

Wow, I missed that. No medical insurance, no reason to keep her around.

He said something to the effect of “milking Kelsey for all she was worth,” to an earlier witness. This certainly jibes with that.

What a disgusting psychopath.

So do we know for sure that Doss was going to cancel Baby K's medical insurance?

 

[MemPat]

It goes along with the term "Hysterical" of previous generations.

Indeed! Hence, the word hysterectomy.

 

[Kapua]

^^S/BBM

2019? Was this conversation taking place during jailhouse phone calls/visits?

Pretty delusional of PF to think he was going to raise baby K with somebody else while KB foot the bill for her daughter's medical insurance premiums.

MOO

Did he have a particular "someone else" in mind, or was he speaking of a generic "someone else"?

 

[GordianKnot]

This was a very personal crime, one that this guy had no qualms about committing in the most brutal way imaginable.

I don’t think there are other bodies though, because he killed for a purpose here.

When he tired of a woman in the past, he just cut off contact with her. He couldn’t do that with KB, as that baby connected them.

I think this was a unique situation for him, and completely unfamiliar territory.

Except for the violence part, as his animals can surely attest.

There's no way PF could have committed other unknown/unsolved murders.

And by no way, I mean zero probability.

He's completely incapable of "getting away with" murder.

As evidenced by the speed with which charges were filed, this no-body murder trial was brought forward, and the avalanche of voluminous evidence that PF's being buried under in this case.

JMO.

 

[MemPat]

Yes. For a guy as hard up for cash as PF appears to have been, I think he was trying to lure her in. No way would be turn down payment from a man.

He wanted something, and it sure as hell wasn’t cash.

Remember, he was all about trading.

 

[MemPat]

There's no way PF could have committed other unknown/unsolved murders.

And by no way, I mean zero probability.

He's completely incapable of "getting away with" murder.

As evidenced by the speed with which charges were filed and this no-body murder trial was brought forward, and the avalanche of voluminous evidence that PF's being buried under in this case.

JMO.

Are inclusive and stupid synonyms?
Asking for a friend.

 

[Seattle1]

PF's female client list testifies:

1) Laurie Luce to the stand, a woman whose horses Frazee cared for for about 5 ½ years;

2) Kayla Daugherty, a personal and professional acquaintance of Frazee’s, who said she and Frazee had dated in the spring of 2016 for a couple of months. (testified twice – without and with jury present);

3) Savannah Greasby to the stand, for whom Frazee had been shoeing horses for about nine years (all-inclusive passage);

4) Kathryn Donahue next – another woman for whom Frazee shoed horses.

Frazee trial: Arson analyst, Frazee friend testify

 

[GordianKnot]

The female client list testifies:

1) Laurie Luce to the stand, a woman whose horses Frazee cared for for about 5 ½ years;


2) Kayla Daugherty, a personal and professional acquaintance of Frazee’s, who said she and Frazee had dated in the spring of 2016 for a couple of months. (testified twice – without and with jury present);


3) Savannah Greasby to the stand, for whom Frazee had been shoeing horses for about nine years (all-inclusive passage);


Kathryn Donahue next – another woman for whom Frazee shoed horses.

Frazee trial: Arson analyst, Frazee friend testify

BBM:

Is that what they're calling it now?

Gotta' admit, that's a new one for me.
I'm totally unfamiliar with this particular euphemism.

Then again, I'm not a cowgirl.
So there's that.

All's I know is that if PF ever tried to "shoe my horse," he'd be riding side-saddle for the rest of his miserable life.

JMO .

 

[Sillybilly]

Please continue discussion at Thread #64.

This thread is now closed.