CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

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Lining up the replacement.

Gotta give it to old PF, he's a thinking ahead...Yup

Moo..
I go back and forth on his motivation. Was he lining up a new mommy? Or was he just using his baby as his wingman to help soften up chicks so he could sleep with them? I lean toward it being mostly the latter but a little of the former. His baby was nearing the age of being a lot more active, walking, etc and child care was going to become more of a problem. It’s easy to take care of a baby - they sleep most of the time. Once they start walking, they require constant attention. Was SF able or willing to keep up with a toddler? If not, how could PF do all the ranch and farrier stuff with an active toddler underfoot? The answer would be to find a new love interest.
 
@justme11 said:
Did I hear correctly in Sam's live that PF told the last gal he was 'the exclusive package'?



On Nov. 26, she reached out saying she was thinking about him, and on Nov. 28, after more messages about him apparently not taking her money for shoeing her horses, he told her not to take a sassy tone with him and that he was the all-inclusive passage. Later that day, they both talked about being stubborn and Frazee said Greasby had met her match, according to the messages.

Frazee trial: Arson analyst, Frazee friend testify
Yikes, that's scary- I wonder if he said that to Kelsey and others, too- about meeting their match.
 
This makes so much sense. He was ready to move on. He had his next person to "love bomb". I've been wondering - since KK was old hat, it didn't make sense it was her.
Wow! Just catching up now. No wonder PF wanted KK to kill KB - he was totally going to let her take the fall. And he could move to his next girl of the hour. Stupid, stupid KK driving all night to clean up his mess and do his dirty work while he was texting other women. I feel like hearing that has to be one of the worst punishments for her. If she was soo enamored and obsessed with this tool, it must be sooooo devastating to learn that she was just a pawn while he was pursuing other women even right before Thanksgiving.

That said, she's so stupid because he never seemed to even pretend that he cared about her, loved her, wanted to be with her once KB was out of the way.

The other stupid part of their plan (man there are so many), is the fake texts back and forth from PF and KB's phone. PF being sooooo sweet, “Are you ok? Do you need anything or can I do anything?”

The stupid, oh so CLEARLY written by a female wordy response from PF that he still loved KB - when "she" (KK as KB) asked "Do you even love me?" And he texted, "Why would I bend over backwards and stand behind you thru everything if I didn't? So to answer your question yes I do." (And what guy texts like that anyway??)

It doesn't even fit their stupid narrative that PF thought KB was a terrible, unfit mother and that he wanted her dead. Their whole KB just "went missing" or "went to visit grandma" genius plan (complete with both of her cars left in the driveway) no longer works once everyone is coming out of the woodwork to share how much PF wanted KB gone.

Well, EXACTLY!
I totally agree
 
Frazee trial: Arson analyst, Frazee friend testify

Posted: 11:17 AM, Nov 12, 2019

Updated: 7:06 PM, Nov 12, 2019
By: Stephanie Butzer and Blair Miller | Denver 7 and Sam Kraemer | KOAA

Prosecutors then called Laurie Luce to the stand, a woman whose horses Frazee cared for for about 5 ½ years, she said.

[..]

She testified that she found out Frazee had a daughter when she walked by his truck and saw Kaylee inside when she was about 4 months old. She testified that Frazee told her he had a relationship with the girl’s mother but didn’t learn she was pregnant until she had the baby – something the court had previously heard during the trial.

[..]

Luce told the court that Frazee went to her house on Dec. 20, and that she felt concerned for him and asked how he was doing. She testified that Frazee told her some details about the search of his property that had occurred days earlier and said he felt some of what the investigators did to his property “seemed a little mean and unnecessary.”

[...]

Luce testified that Frazee told her he went to Berreth’s to pick up their daughter before he went to run errands and to give Berreth her gun back, claiming to Luce that Berreth had threatened suicide. He claimed that he didn’t want to give it back but did anyway, she said. Luce said in court Tuesday that Frazee expressed frustration of telling the story “so many times” but she told him she had never heard it before.

[...]

She said she offered to him that maybe Berreth tried going home but died by suicide, or that maybe Berreth was coming back.

“Oh, she’s never coming back,” Luce testified that Frazee told her, though she admitted in court that she did not initially tell the story and only told prosecutors a few weeks ago when she was subpoenaed.

Luce told the court that sometime between August and October 2019 [2018?], Frazee told her he wanted to raise his daughter with someone else. Later, she testified, Frazee told her: “I wanted her (Berreth) to help with medical expenses before. Now I just want her gone.”

[..]

The jury was kept outside the courtroom for the next witness as a juror had an issue. Prosecutors called Kayla Daugherty, a personal and professional acquaintance of Frazee’s, who said she and Frazee had dated in the spring of 2016 for a couple of months.

She testified that Frazee told her about the vastness of Teller County and that it would be hard to find a body during a discussion in 2015.

[..]

Viehman asked her if Frazee told her that somebody could carry a body on a horse somewhere no one could find it, to which she replied, “Yes.”

[..]

The court then worked to decide if the testimony was admissible in court since the jury was left outside....

But Judge Scott Sells ruled the testimony was admissible despite Stiegerwald’s objections because it established Frazee’s knowledge of the Teller County area.

[..]

The state then called Savannah Greasby to the stand, for whom Frazee had been shoeing horses for about nine years, she said.

[..]

The messages showed she texted Frazee “hey” at 10:44 a.m. on Nov. 23 and that he didn’t respond until 2:33 p.m., also saying “hey.” The messages showed she asked him how his day went, to which he responded that it was long but life was about to slow down.

[..]

Daugherty told Viehman she was not aware Berreth was missing while they talked but later learned she was. She also testified that she knew little about Frazee and Berreth’s daughter and that she didn’t remember Frazee saying much about Berreth other than claiming she was bipolar and in rehab, and saying he wanted full custody of Kaylee

[..]

The state called Kathryn Donahue next – another woman for whom Frazee shoed horses.

[..]

She said that after Kaylee was born, Frazee would bring the baby around during farrier work, but that he never had anything good to say about Berreth.

[...]

She said she called a tip in for the case, saying Frazee told her Berreth took off shortly after their daughter was born and that Frazee described Berreth as absolutely crazy.

[...]

Donahue testified Tuesday that Frazee told her Berreth’s employer had called him and said their daughter’s health insurance was going to expire at the end of January because Berreth hadn’t maintained it, and that he told her employer that Berreth was getting up for work every day but evidently not going. She said he also told her Berreth went to rehab.

[...]

Prosecutors told the judge they were ahead of schedule and needed to work on getting witnesses to Cripple Creek days before they expected to originally testify.
So he was already obsessed with burying bodies back in 2015, before he brought Kelsey to Colorado.

Has he done this before and he just wasn't caught?

Or was this some sick fantasy of his that he finally carried out?

It seems like he was obsessed about placing bodies where no one could find them for a long time now. This wasn't just recent. I find that chilling- before he even knew who Kelsey was, he was planning to do this to a future victim.
 
So he was already obsessed with burying bodies back in 2015, before he brought Kelsey to Colorado.

Has he done this before and he just wasn't caught?

Or was this some sick fantasy of his that he finally carried out?

It seems like he was obsessed about placing bodies where no one could find them for a long time now. This wasn't just recent. I find that chilling- before he even knew who Kelsey was, he was planning to do this to a future victim.

For somebody that likes to brag about how bodies can be lost in Colorado -- I won't be surprised if investigators aren't going through cold case missing persons as we speak.
 
Another possibility is that PF was using the toilet as he sat down with his pants pulled down. The blood from his pants touched the toilet bowl. Where's the washer/dryer...
up/down stairs? He removed his clothes to put in the washer/dryer while he showered. And, the baby is downstairs in the storage room?
 
That's probably the only truthful thing that's come out of his month since he murdered her- what you bolded.

What a brazen jerk. It's almost like he wanted to get caught. Who would be stupid enough to say all of this stuff before and after she was murdered? Something is not right with this guy, murder aside.

Remember, we're talking about a psychopath. You bet, something isn't right. NOTHING is right and if we could peek inside that mid we'd probably pass out from fright.

He's almost bragging. I suspect he was pretty pleased with himself.
 
For somebody that likes to brag about how bodies can be lost in Colorado -- I won't be surprised if investigators aren't going through cold case missing persons as we speak.

This was a very personal crime, one that this guy had no qualms about committing in the most brutal way imaginable.

I don’t think there are other bodies though, because he killed for a purpose here.

When he tired of a woman in the past, he just cut off contact with her. He couldn’t do that with KB, as that baby connected them.

I think this was a unique situation for him, and completely unfamiliar territory.

Except for the violence part, as his animals can surely attest.
 
I may have misread, but was kelsey’s phone thrown in the fire? I was hoping more incriminating evidence could be found against PF with information on it.
I think we're going to see lots of phone evidence if it's needed.

The physical phone is not necessary to retrieve her communications. MOO
 
For somebody that likes to brag about how bodies can be lost in Colorado -- I won't be surprised if investigators aren't going through cold case missing persons as we speak.
I wish I could remember the name of the woman that was missing (later found deceased in a park) around that area. Her friends were looking at him as possibly doing something to her. For some reason, LE deemed it an overdose, but they had many questions about the night she disappeared. It wasn't that long ago- probably just as Kelsey came into his life, but I'll be darned if I can find out her name. I've tried every combination to find it. There was even a FB page for her, but I left it earlier this year. Now I wish I didn't delete it!
 
Another possibility is that PF was using the toilet as he sat down with his pants pulled down. The blood from his pants touched the toilet bowl. Where's the washer/dryer...
up/down stairs? He removed his clothes to put in the washer/dryer while he showered. And, the baby is downstairs in the storage room?
Thanks for that awesome visual, LMBO!! Though you do have a good point, just a nasty one, haha!
 
IIRC, most dental record identifications are made based on the positioning of teeth rather than from individual teeth.

I would expect LE was:
A. Able to determine it is a human tooth and
B. Perhaps ground it down and identified Kelsey's DNA

I believe just (A) would be enough to bolster the case since KK said she threw a tooth in the bag and the bag went into the fire.

Dental record identifications are made from the whole dental picture normally. Which teeth are missing, which are filled-what surfaces, what material, have they had root fillings, are they chipped or worn, have any teeth had crowns etc.
The crucial factor is how big the fragment is, and what part of the tooth it came from if it is to be of any use for visual identification. A root from a molar tooth would be almost useless, (unless it was unusual-shape or size-and there were good pre existing x rays. Half of the clinical crown of a central incisor would be great.

It is reasonably easy to identify a human tooth visual, if there are any anatomical markers present. (Again it comes down to how big the fragment is, and fragment of what part of the tooth) I have read some posters speculate that it wouldn't be possible to determine that it is a human tooth. I don't agree with this at all. I think most I could identify, and I'm a dentist, not a forensic odontologist. (They are really clever!)

The fact that the fragment survived the fire is interesting. The rest of the teeth apparently didn't, and I wonder if this tooth wasn't somehow dropped or something before the fire took hold. (In my dreams I hope that it is the tooth that KL retrieved. And it may well be so)

I'm only speculating, but the DNA testing was probably of the pulp- the soft tissue within the tooth, which makes me think/hope that the tooth fragment wasn't too fire damaged.
 
I think we are getting a pretty clear picture of why PF wanted to keep his relationship with Kelsey a secret.

That reminds me another cluster B characteristic and that's that they compartmentalize. Because they're so dishonest, they have all kinds of games going on with different people who aren't aware of each other or don't have the real story.
 
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