CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

[MassGuy]

Pfffffft. She still can't be in two places at once. Idaho/Colorado. No one has yet come up with a way to achieve that feat of physics.

That’s why they shift the timeline, as the defense is certain to do.

They concede that KK was in Idaho during Thanksgiving, but they claim that the murder didn’t occur on Thanksgiving at all.

It’s still impossible to believe, and refuted by a mountain of evidence, but that’s the only door open.

 

[scdiv]

Sam's video notes...
- photographer during the search testified... recalled seeing ornament in a box at PF's property. The box was addressed to KB's house. Ornament for KB's daughter from KB's brother. The box that Cheryl told PF to pick up and he had a friend pick up instead.
- That the Franch was NOT safe for a small child.. chemical on the ground throughout the property.
- Looking at the fire/burn area... some appeared wet. The consistency was that of oil or kind of a mushy clay. Was difficult to sift, kind of a mushy mess. Also found a partial tooth. Asked if it was significant, she said, yes, it was a tooth at a site where we believed a body had been burned. (Paraphrased...I'm typing in real time and can't go back...)
- Special agent Charles DeFrance...we've heard from him before... asked him about the burn pit... he said it looked very burnt... smelled like burnt plastic.. he was part of the search of KB's town home on the 19th... the days leading up to PF's arrest... KK had not presented information yet. Used Blue Star... essentially luminal in the bathroom but did not work out great. Did not know at the time it was a murder scene. Or that a clean up had taken place. Could not tell on the 19th that there had been a major clean up. Knew on the 21st it was a crime scene and to look for a clean up.
- Special Agent Ashley something...also with the evidence response team... she was team leader for search of the Franch and vehicle. Saw accelerants on the property. Said they did not find a bat or a baton when searching his pickup. Not sure which one. She used to be a CPA. Found financial records, receipts. Significant on the 21st but not on the 14th. Full of receipts and receipts confirmed he shopped at Conoco.
- The 49ers are making me crazy. Missed the next part, sorry.
- Okay back to fire pit area, the dirt used to cover it up is discolored, different.
- KK pointed out the burn area. Used a pick axe. Figured out the perimeter of the burn area. Used hand tools, materials - found crusty plastic from the tote that was burned. Noticed different smells during this time that indicated burned plastic.
- Photos showed burned materials from the crusty plastic.
- Basically KK showed them the area that helped them know where to sift through and they found all this burned plastic. Burn area about 5 feet wide, 8 feet long.
- Also when they found the tooth.

 

[gitana1]

Amen!

I have yet to see any "alternate theories". If you have, do tell.

Oh they’ve discussed KK being the killer or a “third party”.

 

[Steelslady]

Sam Kraemer's live Facebook video on Monday, November 11, 2019


- KK's father recalls going to Chad and KK's home. KK was there the whole time, aside from being gone for like an hour to deal with cows. Saw KK the next evening, just prior to her leaving to Colorado. Did not know PF. KK had spoken about him. Didn't think he liked what he was hearing. KK was the easiest of his children to raise. She likes people and she likes people to like her. Been a nurse for 4 or 5 years. She would go visit her mother in Colorado.

snipped for focus- Very interesting, that her mother lives in Colorado. Yet, she told others she was at a birthday party and obviously didn't visit with her Mom on that trip.

Something has always bothered me about Krystal's talk of being afraid of Patrick, that he had "people watching her" BS- did it ever occur to her that Patrick could have had a second set of keys to Kelsey's condo, and that maybe, he just might be waiting for her with a baseball bat?

She willingly drove down to clean up his mess, she was allegedly afraid of him and his people watching her, but it never occurred to her that someone just might do the same to her, too? She was all alone in that condo, cleaning.

It just puzzles me that this never occurred to her, especially where she told her friend that she thought it was possible that he has murdered before. What would make her think she would be safe from him, all alone?

 

[Steelslady]

Pfffffft. She still can't be in two places at once. Idaho/Colorado. No one has yet come up with a way to achieve that feat of physics.

Well, we could come up with a few silly scenarios, but that would mean others were involved in this as well- at least the cover up, so to speak.

 

[Seattle1]

I understand the most she can get is 18 months UNLESS as Dan May said there is Extreme Aggravating Factors. Is that the same as Extraordinary Risk of harm crimes?

KK is charged with a Class 6 felony. The presumptive sentence range for Class 6 is 1 year to 18 months.

Regardless of which extreme aggravating factor cited including "Extraordinary Risk of Harm Crimes," the maximum enhanced sentence penalty for a Class 6 felony is 3 years.

(Not applicable enhanced sentence exception is "Big Habitual Offender" where 6 years is maximum).

See Table 3, Felony Sentencing Ranges including Special Sentencing Categories and Habitual Offender Laws -- pg 8.

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/si...riminalJusticeSpecialSentencingIssueBrief.pdf


For each class of felony and misdemeanor, Colorado law specifies a presumptive sentencing range. However, the General Assembly has adopted several special sentencing categories that provide the court with the discretion to impose a sentence that is shorter or longer than the presumptive range if certain circumstances exist. This memorandum provides an overview of the special sentencing categories in state law for felony and misdemeanor offenses, and also explains Colorado's habitual offender and special offender sentencing laws. A summary of recent legislative changes to habitual offender laws and sentencing for certain misdemeanors is included.

 

[panther518]

As much as some of these cowboy community types in that area are, wouldn’t actually surprise me if he had some lackeys that would watch her.

What kind of people would not report a guy constantly talking about ways he could kill his gf and get away with it?

The amount of disregard his cowboy “friends” demonstrated for human life is appalling. They seem the type that doesn’t know the difference between a hole in the wall and something else.

 

[scdiv]

- Three bats were photographed on PF's property.
- One was found by a door to the front entrance in the house, inside. Another in a sun room. Another in the kitchen, I think. Sam says not uncommon in the country to have bats in your house to defend yourself.
- Dan May called Joseph Moore, cattle rancher to the stand... He had helped PF with his cattle. Known PF for two decades. Offered PF farrier job around 2001-2003. Called PF an excellent cattler.
- Said the hay bales at Nash Ranch are big... weigh about 800 lbs each.. stacks are about 8ft high..
- In 2018, relationship with PF was good... basically called him a stepkid.. started crying.. don't want to think someone you know would do something like this..
- Moore met KB about November 2016... KB not pregnant yet... PF berated KB horribly, yelled at her, cussed at her terribly bc she didn't know what to do with the cows, she hadn't been in that situation before.
- October 5 or 6, 2017, PF told Moore that KB called him at 3am wanting PF to take her to the ER... that's how PF claims he knew KB was pregnant...
- PF made comments out of the blue about "kids go missing all the time from playgrounds and school yards..." exactly what KK had said PF said to her....
- Moore said PF met a man who was a hitman for the mob...
- Moore asked PF how things were going with "his daughter's mother" bc that's how PF referred to her... PF said he "figured out a way to kill her." PF grinned and said, "No body, no crime, right?"
- Moore said PF said he had people or clients watching or spying on KB... he wanted to sue for custody and get 100% custody. Claimed client said he had a picture of baby in car, car running, and kB inside a liquor store... Moore asked to see picture but PF didn't show it to him..
- After the FBI took PF's phone, PF asked if he could use Moore's phone.. Sam is now connecting the dots.. PF called KK's phone from "joe's phone" in Woodland Park. Moore heard him talking about horses
- PF was talking about Pike National Forest and bringing up that forest and that KB probably killed herself there
- Moore asked how then her phone could ping in Idaho. (Yeah, exactly)
- Moore noted PF was acting very nervous as he talked about his Thanksgiving
- In December 2018, PF told Moore that blood from KB could be on him, because KB had a bad nose bleed and had her head on his lap. Something about a cow hit her and then she hit PF or something and blood got on PF.
- Notes PF never talked about wondering where she was, if she was okay.
- PF asked why they were even investigating this if there was no body, no crime. Why are they investigating me, what do they think they are going to find
- PF asked if anyone was messing around the red barn... Nash Ranch.. Moore told him no and PF said well good..

 

[MsBetsy]

Pfffffft. She still can't be in two places at once. Idaho/Colorado. No one has yet come up with a way to achieve that feat of physics.

I wonder how the defense is going to attempt to show that KK killed her somewhere besides the condo.
They would have to say it happened on the 24th and I can't imagine how they will explain the blood evidence in the condo, the dog alerting on the haystack, and the video and cellphone evidence.
I just don't get it.

 

[scdiv]

- Moore.. dec 20 conversation.. PF couldn't understand why there is such a big deal over this... PF said, "Man, if I had known it would have blown up this big, I never would have..." didn't finish the sentence.
- Hay was more expensive than the tractor.
- Date of recorded phone call was February 2019
- Moore excused, not released

Okay, that concludes Sam recapping testimony. Please note that I wrote quickly what he was saying or slightly paraphrased typing fast, so feel free to check the video and verify/note anything I missed. I went in order so shouldn't be too hard to find. Okay, back to football with one minute left.

 

[panther518]

They need to fry PF-cussing at her because she didn’t know how to handle a cow?? And this Moore guy witnessed this behavior & just kept thinking of PF as a son??

No offense to anyone from that area but is it the twilight zone?

 

[MassGuy]

- Three bats were photographed on PF's property.
- One was found by a door to the front entrance in the house, inside. Another in a sun room. Another in the kitchen, I think. Sam says not uncommon in the country to have bats in your house to defend yourself.
- Dan May called Joseph Moore, cattle rancher to the stand... He had helped PF with his cattle. Known PF for two decades. Offered PF farrier job around 2001-2003. Called PF an excellent cattler.
- Said the hay bales at Nash Ranch are big... weigh about 800 lbs each.. stacks are about 8ft high..
- In 2018, relationship with PF was good... basically called him a stepkid.. started crying.. don't want to think someone you know would do something like this..
- Moore met KB about November 2016... KB not pregnant yet... PF berated KB horribly, yelled at her, cussed at her terribly bc she didn't know what to do with the cows, she hadn't been in that situation before.
- October 5 or 6, 2017, PF told Moore that KB called him at 3am wanting PF to take her to the ER... that's how PF claims he knew KB was pregnant...
- PF made comments out of the blue about "kids go missing all the time from playgrounds and school yards..." exactly what KK had said PF said to her....
- Moore said PF met a man who was a hitman for the mob...
- Moore asked PF how things were going with "his daughter's mother" bc that's how PF referred to her... PF said he "figured out a way to kill her." PF grinned and said, "No body, no crime, right?"
- Moore said PF said he had people or clients watching or spying on KB... he wanted to sue for custody and get 100% custody. Claimed client said he had a picture of baby in car, car running, and kB inside a liquor store... Moore asked to see picture but PF didn't show it to him..
- After the FBI took PF's phone, PF asked if he could use Moore's phone.. Sam is now connecting the dots.. PF called KK's phone from "joe's phone" in Woodland Park. Moore heard him talking about horses
- PF was talking about Pike National Forest and bringing up that forest and that KB probably killed herself there
- Moore asked how then her phone could ping in Idaho. (Yeah, exactly)
- Moore noted PF was acting very nervous as he talked about his Thanksgiving
- In December 2018, PF told Moore that blood from KB could be on him, because KB had a bad nose bleed and had her head on his lap. Something about a cow hit her and then she hit PF or something and blood got on PF.
- Notes PF never talked about wondering where she was, if she was okay.
- PF asked why they were even investigating this if there was no body, no crime. Why are they investigating me, what do they think they are going to find
- PF asked if anyone was messing around the red barn... Nash Ranch.. Moore told him no and PF said well good..

Just an absolutely devastating witness as far as the defense is concerned. What’s surprising, is that PF used the same line with him that he allegedly did with KK (kids go missing from playgrounds...).

There was a shocking amount of incriminating details there.

 

[MassGuy]

- Moore.. dec 20 conversation.. PF couldn't understand why there is such a big deal over this... PF said, "Man, if I had known it would have blown up this big, I never would have..." didn't finish the sentence.
- Hay was more expensive than the tractor.
- Date of recorded phone call was February 2019
- Moore excused, not released

Okay, that concludes Sam recapping testimony. Please note that I wrote quickly what he was saying or slightly paraphrased typing fast, so feel free to check the video and verify/note anything I missed. I went in order so shouldn't be too hard to find. Okay, back to football with one minute left.

You killed it, and just in time for overtime!

 

[Safeguard]

Pfffffft. She still can't be in two places at once. Idaho/Colorado. No one has yet come up with a way to achieve that feat of physics.

We all know kk was just his best friend, Cheer leader, Crime scene cleaner, Babysitter, baby aborter, ranch hand, side piece, and definitely...
"The one that got away"!

 

[panther518]

Why was KB staying with him? Maybe thinking it was best for their daughter? But it sounds like he was verbally abusing from early on?

Not victim blaming at all, but PF sounds like he treated her like dirt, and in front of others.

 

[MassGuy]

Why was KB staying with him? Maybe thinking it was best for their daughter? But it sounds like he was verbally abusing from early on?

Not victim blaming at all, but PF sounds like he treated her like dirt, and in front of others.

I think that baby complicated things.

 

[Steelslady]

I kind of dread tomorrow. I don't know if I can handle too many more "bombshells". I put myself in the Berreth's place, and I just don't know how the father and brother can go everyday without wanting to deck Patrick- I am sure that they would love nothing more than to be able to do so. I give them credit. It broke my heart to read that Kelsey's Dad broke down when Baby K's photo was put up, while Krystal was on the stand.

I feel for her mother. Such a classy lady all throughout all of this. Edited to add- the entire Berreth family has been classy throughout all of this.

I guess with Thanksgiving coming up in a couple of weeks, it just hurts me to know that last year, unknown to the Berreth's, would be Kelsey's last holiday alive, before that brute murdered her. This has to be so tough, the trial at this time of year- not that any time is a good time, but damn, close to the anniversary of Kelsey's death? Two Thanksgivings in a row, ruined over that brute and his sidekick and many others, who could have stopped him from doing this.

May they all have a rotten Thanksgiving, all that knew about this and did nothing. May Kelsey's face appear in their minds all day long......as her family continues to grieve and always will.

 

[scdiv]

I know the defense only has to cast reasonable doubt, not present another theory or culprit. But even if KK is lying about her motives or what she knew when, it still feels like if anything she was more involved than she admits. But nothing about her testimony, even if she's an evil liar, seems to take any blame off Patrick. Even going after her that she's only saying all this to get a sweetheart deal... well yeah, I feel like it's just a given that she's involved in this up to her eyeballs... even as an accomplice... but to Patrick. It in no way seems to absolve him.

The defense didn't seem to ask anything on cross examination about if she was in town the day of the murder, if she had touched the murder weapon, or anything along those lines that she was more involved with the actual murder.

I feel like the fact that she jumped to take a deal just shows that she was part of this and in big trouble, so would sing like a bird and tell them whatever they needed to convict him. But I personally don't feel like there's been any evidence to cast doubt on if PF did this or not or any other scenario. And if it was a hitman or 3rd party (Spoiler: it's not), then why wouldn't KK just point LE to them instead? I'm pretty sure they want to get the right person.

eta: The defense seems only to be attacking her credibility, highlighting that she has incentive to lie to get a plea deal. But they don't actually seem to be challenging or poking ANY holes in her testimony, evidence, timeline, etc.

 

[panther518]

I followed the Watts case also, and it makes me so angry and sad to think of the amount of mental torture these women were put through by the partners they should have been able to trust above anyone else. These women were way too good for these scumbags in their lives. I just picture both women having full, happy lives if these rats had just left/stayed away.

 

[Kapua]

- Three bats were photographed on PF's property.
- One was found by a door to the front entrance in the house, inside. Another in a sun room. Another in the kitchen, I think. Sam says not uncommon in the country to have bats in your house to defend yourself.
- Dan May called Joseph Moore, cattle rancher to the stand... He had helped PF with his cattle. Known PF for two decades. Offered PF farrier job around 2001-2003. Called PF an excellent cattler.
- Said the hay bales at Nash Ranch are big... weigh about 800 lbs each.. stacks are about 8ft high..
- In 2018, relationship with PF was good... basically called him a stepkid.. started crying.. don't want to think someone you know would do something like this..
- Moore met KB about November 2016... KB not pregnant yet... PF berated KB horribly, yelled at her, cussed at her terribly bc she didn't know what to do with the cows, she hadn't been in that situation before.
- October 5 or 6, 2017, PF told Moore that KB called him at 3am wanting PF to take her to the ER... that's how PF claims he knew KB was pregnant...
- PF made comments out of the blue about "kids go missing all the time from playgrounds and school yards..." exactly what KK had said PF said to her....
- Moore said PF met a man who was a hitman for the mob...
- Moore asked PF how things were going with "his daughter's mother" bc that's how PF referred to her... PF said he "figured out a way to kill her." PF grinned and said, "No body, no crime, right?"
- Moore said PF said he had people or clients watching or spying on KB... he wanted to sue for custody and get 100% custody. Claimed client said he had a picture of baby in car, car running, and kB inside a liquor store... Moore asked to see picture but PF didn't show it to him..
- After the FBI took PF's phone, PF asked if he could use Moore's phone.. Sam is now connecting the dots.. PF called KK's phone from "joe's phone" in Woodland Park. Moore heard him talking about horses
- PF was talking about Pike National Forest and bringing up that forest and that KB probably killed herself there
- Moore asked how then her phone could ping in Idaho. (Yeah, exactly)
- Moore noted PF was acting very nervous as he talked about his Thanksgiving
- In December 2018, PF told Moore that blood from KB could be on him, because KB had a bad nose bleed and had her head on his lap. Something about a cow hit her and then she hit PF or something and blood got on PF.
- Notes PF never talked about wondering where she was, if she was okay.
- PF asked why they were even investigating this if there was no body, no crime. Why are they investigating me, what do they think they are going to find
- PF asked if anyone was messing around the red barn... Nash Ranch.. Moore told him no and PF said well good..

Thank you so much for the detailed notes!
- October 5 or 6, 2017, PF told Moore that KB called him at 3am wanting PF to take her to the ER... that's how PF claims he knew KB was pregnant...
^ I commented on this on the previous thread, and then I thought I had misunderstood and it was Moore that didn't know KB was pregnant. But I had it right the first time. PF claimed (to Moore) that he didn't know KB was pregnant until he took her to ER!! Bovine excrement!! Dan May, please call CB back to the stand to reveal yet another of PF's lies. That is bovine excrement.