CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #10

[MindHunter13]

Legal question here. If members of the jury believe he had a mental illness or if was pushed to the brink because of the current stress of life, but believe he did kill them all, would the current charges stand or would they convict of lesser charges?

He can be convicted of lesser charges or be found not guilty all together

 

[Jennifer17]

Legal question here. If members of the jury believe he had a mental illness or if was pushed to the brink because of the current stress of life, but believe he did kill them all, would the current charges stand or would they convict of lesser charges?

I can't see why they would. These are pressures that a lot of people have in their lives at one time or another and they don't murder their families.

 

[bluesneakers]

Delete.

Hi Dex. Happy Saturday.

 

[Jennifer17]

He can be convicted of lesser charges or be found not guilty all together

He can't be convicted of manslaughter if he is not charged with it, can he?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Interesting.

Some people suggested maybe he couldn't wear a wedding ring to work and perhaps the same rule would apply to a necklace? Not sure about the bracelet.

The ring removal at work if you are a mechanic or similar job I understand because my husband was a mechanic and he would put his ring back on after washing his hands at the end of shift. He used to leave his ring in his tool box but always put it back on at the end of the work day. Even if CW didn't do that and instead he selectively wore his wedding ring according to work schedule, you would think if your wife and children are missing you would want to have your wedding ring on for comfort. He wasn't working those couple of days when he was being interviewed so I wonder where the wedding ring was.

For the purple lupus band it was posted previously that SW said CW never took that band off since she gave it to him when they first met. So again, where was the lupus band? If SW stated that CW never took that band off then that negates the theory that he can't wear a wedding ring at work because they both could cause injury if snagged or catches on equipment.

For the wooden whistle necklace that looks to have a leather strap as a chain which was shown in several photos I posted, it was obviously a favorite of CW's because he wore it a lot. I wonder where it went. I also suspect he didn't bother taking it off and putting it back on everyday he went to work. That takes a lot of effort and time. More then likely he simply just wore it regularly.

I would be curious if there are photos taken that Sunday from the birthday party that CW attended with the little girls if he is wearing that particular necklace, wedding ring and lupus bracelet at the party. Pretty good chance someone has a picture of him at that party and LE has it now. Recall that there were pictures I posted of CW with a distinct bruise and/or mark on his neck during the interview that could have been a result of a struggle with the leather strap necklace because I never thought that mark looked like a scratch because SW had long sharp nails and that would leave a distinct wound. The mark on CW's neck is more of a bruise that could be a result of that leather band from the necklace being tugged at his skin.

 

[MindHunter13]

I can't see why they would. These are pressures that a lot of people have in their lives at one time or another and they don't murder their families.

Temporary Insanity or more commonly known as a Crime of Passion which would coincide with his claim of simply "reacting" after witnessing her alleged acts on the baby monitor.

 

[gitana1]

The reason I said "actual" evidence is simply because we don't know for sure what evidence exists. We only know what is being reported. It would be awesome if we could see what tangible evidence exists. As for circumstantial evidence securing convictions, you cannot be anymore correct. It happens ALL the time

Circumstantial evidence IS actual evidence and we have a mountain of it. And we absolutely know what it is because we have seen or heard it ourselves and read it in the affidavit.

Perhaps you are thinking of direct evidence. Direct evidence is something like a witness seeing the crime in progress or a video of the crime.

Virtually everything else including DNA and fingerprints- is circumstantial evidence.

Regardless, there is a lot of actual evidence that allows one to conclude, without a reasonable doubt, that this being annihilated his entire family. I will list it again if you would like.

 

[MindHunter13]

He can't be convicted of manslaughter if he is not charged with it, can he?

They can add it as a charge prior to the commencement of the trial and if they really screw the pooch, I've seen the charge added after the trial has commenced.

 

[DAdvocate]

Another thought that may have to do with financial stress. If SW was paid without taxes taken out she would likely have a big tax bill come IRS day. I wonder if they owed the IRS too? Not saying this is the case, but possible IMO.

*i don’t believe this is questioning her job, just whether IRS came out or not”

 

[DexterMorgan]

Legal question here. If members of the jury believe he had a mental illness or if was pushed to the brink because of the current stress of life, but believe he did kill them all, would the current charges stand or would they convict of lesser charges?

His lawyer would have to plea not guilty due to temporary insanity from the gate.

But going straight to work while joshing around kind of destroys that claim. Jmo.

Plus throwing his daughters in a oil tank definitely destroys that claim.

So the states closing argument will definitely need to hammer in on those points. Jmo

 

[DAdvocate]

The ring removal at work if you are a mechanic or similar job I understand because my husband was a mechanic and he would put his ring back on after washing his hands at the end of shift. He used to leave his ring in his tool box but always put it back on at the end of the work day. Even if CW didn't do that and instead he selectively wore his wedding ring according to work schedule, you would think if your wife and children are missing you would want to have your wedding ring on for comfort. He wasn't working those couple of days when he was being interviewed so I wonder where the wedding ring was.

For the purple lupus band it was posted previously that SW said CW never took that band off since she gave it to him when they first met. So again, where was the lupus band? If SW stated that CW never took that band off then that negates the theory that he can't wear a wedding ring at work because they both could cause injury if snagged or catches on equipment.

For the wooden whistle necklace that looks to have a leather strap as a chain which was shown in several photos I posted, it was obviously a favorite of CW's because he wore it a lot. I wonder where it went. I also suspect he didn't bother taking it off and putting it back on everyday he went to work. That takes a lot of effort and time. More then likely he simply just wore it regularly.

I would be curious if there are photos taken that Sunday from the birthday party that CW attended with the little girls if he is wearing that particular necklace, wedding ring and lupus bracelet at the party. Pretty good chance someone has a picture of him at that party and LE has it now. Recall that there were pictures I posted of CW with a distinct bruise and/or mark on his neck during the interview that could have been a result of a struggle with the leather strap necklace because I never thought that mark looked like a scratch because SW had long sharp nails and that would leave a distinct wound. The mark on CW's neck is more of a bruise that could be a result of that leather band from the necklace being tugged at his skin.

He wasn’t wearing ring when she announced her pregnancy to him on FB.

 

[SuperTmo]

People lumping in Le-Vel in with random MLMs are sooo wrong in heir assumptions. Most of us don't even have to pay for product at all, there's NO buying in to this, you don't even sell it to get a discount like other companies. People need to stop trying to blame her career choice for any of this. You are all so far wrong on everything to do with this company. I thought this forum required people to state facts only or provide where you're getting the information. Should that not also be the case for trying to use this business any any implecations to motive

Thanks for saying this! I have researched Le-Vel fairly extensively and tried for a few days last week to make people realize there isn’t inventory and that it’s mainly direct ship type monthly subscriptions you guys sell. Even if Shanann was buying product to maintain her qualification for commission it seemed like at most she’d need to put in $250-300, which covered her own. I’ve said time and time again that I think people will be shocked at Shanann’s earnings.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Legal question here. If members of the jury believe he had a mental illness or if was pushed to the brink because of the current stress of life, but believe he did kill them all, would the current charges stand or would they convict of lesser charges?

Honest answer here. I could not wrap my head around any mental health defense or being pushed to the brink due to current stressors that would allow me to convict on a lesser charge. In life many of us have stressors, mental and physical disorders, etc but we do not kill. It's hard to know until actually sitting in the jury box, but I don't believe so. Those children were so innocent and vulnerable. He could have simply walked away...

 

[MeLlamaLikey]

Legal question here. If members of the jury believe he had a mental illness or if was pushed to the brink because of the current stress of life, but believe he did kill them all, would the current charges stand or would they convict of lesser charges?

The jury instructions will be a law 10 course for the jury to understand legal definitions. The likelihood that a psychologist would find his “snapping” to fit any legal standard of temporary insanity is basically nil. He knew right from wrong in one of the eleventy seven moments he had before rendering her unconscious. Strangulation—absent all the other stuff we’ve covered re seeing her from another room over the monitor, going upstairs, the likely struggle, etc.—are all separate and long enough periods for a reasonable person to stop themselves.

Being stressed out or pushed to the brink are not legal defenses to murder. They are demonstrations of a lack of emotional regulation, and you’re just as responsible for your choices there as the guy who has road rage and pulls a gun.

 

[Gumbeaux]

They make it impossible to find out without getting involved.

Also:
Is This Weight Loss Patch a Scam? | Care2 Healthy Living

Le-Vel | Complaints | Better Business Bureau® Profile

If SW was doing well at this that's great for her, but she was an exception.

BBB has some pretty skeezy Thrive tales reported. I believe rightly or wrongly, the Thrive topic will be a significant part of the trial.

I posted earlier that MLM may have simply created a competitive, amped up environment — with Shannan competing with herself. That being said, no way no how is anyone to blame for this horrific tragedy than CW. I would not make a good juror, but I would be willing to decide some Medieval repercussions.

 

[MCDRAW]

I’m sorry, I have to ask. Is this aimed at me, as well as the blatantly obvious people I know you’re referring to? I sure hope not. I consider myself a pretty good writer, so I cannot imagine my post having lacked the basics for reading comprehension. Passive aggressiveness is something that personally irritates me, so I will always ask for clarification.

I would be honestly shocked if my post was taken as anything other than what I literally said it was—defense theory based on professional specialty. Quite literally the “debate is good” and “looking at both sides is good” thing you are claiming you believe to be true (although, tbh, the entire rest of your post seems to contradict these statements).

Emotions run everything. Two innocent children and a pregnant mother are dead. Someone has to pay. The reason I bring up a possible expansion on his defense is because it is what I actually do for a living. What I cannot stand (and what has me really really saddened through discovery in reading people’s thoughts) is that they’ve convicted him in their minds unilaterally across the board for all of the murders, and there’s zero chance in their minds that there is any truth to anything else. That is SCARY when you consider how our justice system (which is so so so flawed) is supposed to work, and how many people have lost their lives—both literally and figuratively—because people auto draft to “EVERYTHING MY EMOTIONS TEL ME ARE FACT!11!1!!” .. it is absolutely terrifying.

Regardless, as my post said, I know he is guilty of at least one murder. That premeditated charge will stick based on his own account of the facts and the legal definition of premeditation. The minimum sentence is life. He’s done. It’s over. He will die in prison. Just my (experienced) OO.

Just to clarify, I commented off another person's post. If I have read one of your post, I don't remember it. It's hard to believe someone that isn't believable. That statement is about CW and not you, just to clarify. That's my opinion.

 

[CFlo]

sadly we don't know. Interesting question though.

He did say monitors plural in one of the TV clips.

I wasn't expecting Belle to have one at her age as I think she was coming up to 5yrs however I also got the feeling from her SM that she was a very protective mum.

I missed the plural. Even after watching multiple times, it amazing what you can see when watching again. I guess just like some movies though.

Monitors. From what I could tell, SW had the same monitor as mine, Summer Infant brand. Now, I have the portable screen/monitor part with two cameras. One for each of two rooms in the house. On the screen/monitor I can toggle or split screen the two rooms onto one screen.
The night mode, my child has always looked blue to me in it. I also have never been able to see chest movement on any we’ve had. So essentially just used for the audio and to make sure he didn’t roll out of bed when a toddler during the night.
Daytime mode, color, regardless of all lights on and all blinds open, I can’t distinguish between most of the “like” colors (green, blue and yellow, orange as examples). Definitely not as well as the manufacturer pictures claim.... but could just be mine.
My model does not have WiFi or internet remote viewing capabilities. I don’t know if SWs did. Another currently pregnant poster on here had said this brand doesn’t do those any longer IIRC, not sure.

Before having a child room on the other side of our house, or a playroom far away from my home office, I used to think I’d get rid of it once mine turned around 5. BUT since it’s hard to hear that far in the middle of the night (bad dream, potty accident), I can see why they kept theirs. My son is almost 7 and I use the camera in the playroom because it has two way speaking capability. We have a child safety gate at the top of the stairs but for the last few yrs has been strictly to keep the dogs out of that room. Boys’ hotwheels and the tracks are sacred (learned hard way lol).
More info than you asked for, I know.

 

[SumnerRain]

I believe he qualified when he was making the big bucks; something like $140K. It is interesting that she was not originally included in the purchase but added later. When their income took a dive, they should have dumped this unaffordable house. However, that would not fit the image that needed to be projected. Today's young people want now what it took their parents a lifetime to achiever.
MOO

I wondered that too. Ashleigh Banfield said on HLN their home in NC was in Shanann's name only. "...it turns out back in 2009, this whole family picked up and packed up in a hurry. They sold a house in Belmont, North Carolina that was in Shanann`s name, and apparently took off leaving just about all the furniture behind. This is from the Denver Post."

 

[MindHunter13]

Circumstantial evidence IS actual evidence and we have a mountain of it. And we absolutely know what it is because we have seen or heard it ourselves and read it in the affidavit.

Perhaps you are thinking of direct evidence. Direct evidence is something like a witness seeing the crime in progress or a video of the crime.

Virtually everything else including DNA and fingerprints- is circumstantial evidence.

Regardless, there is a lot of actual evidence that allows one to conclude, without a reasonable doubt, that this being annihilated his entire family. I will list it again if you would like.

I'm perfectly capable of reading, thank you. I apologize that you don't like my choice of wording but that doesn't change the fact that everything we have to rely is what is being reported through the MSM. I have not personally sought out the indictment to read it for myself. Everything I am aware has been brought to my attention through either the news media or this site. Therefore, it is literally all considered to be heresay and until I can verify it for myself, will remain as such in my own eyes. This is all I have stated and all I will continue to state.

EVERYONE is entitled to a jury of their peers. No matter what we as individuals may believe. But there is no question that many have been vilified in the MSM just to be exonerated or at least "less vilified" when more facts are presented.

I don't know why I should have to blatantly state this but simply because my opinion opposes your own does not mean I personally oppose you. It appears you are passionate about this case but I always attempt to remove my emotions as they can lead to presumptions. Not saying you are doing this, just that I avoid it. You are obviously intelligent and aware of your facts. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me and I hope to learn more from you.

 

[SuperTmo]

There is not a simple answer to this but there are a ton of documents online that you can review about the reward plans, and VIP levels.

At that level she could get commission 8 levels deep. If you have a strong downline, that will bring in a lot without doing anything. I watched a really informative video about the commission structure. It had a calculator and the girl demonstrated how you can earn. With the right team it can be lucrative because you don’t have to buy tons of products to sell. My clients who have done MLM’s have made really good money and I’m always impressed when I do their taxes.