CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #14

[Seattle1]

I didn’t say they were lazy. Just I know in the case I am familiar with, the defender did absolutely nothing to defend his client, even though the client was innocent of what he was being accused of. His public defender basically told him to swallow it and go on.

What you describe is malpractice. While it certainly may be your opinion, I don't think it's true or the complete story.

 

[human]

I hate that as well. Social media has really changed the way we address crime and high profile cases. It used to be that if there was crime on the other side of the country you had to wait for the tv or newspaper to update you. You never got anywhere near the key players. Now, thanks to SM, you can scroll through the victim's pictures, analyze their final posts, etc. You can even comment (good or bad, to some it's all the same) and practically insert yourself right into the narrative. People desire that attention from the families and friends, even if it's negative because it makes them feel like they are a part of the case.

The sense of entitlement gets to me. Complete strangers having feelings of proprietary nonsense. There is little sense of respect because it feels like a game to them. Like an adult version of Clue.

It seems that if people were not interested ( most of my friends are not), they would not be on WS. I venture a guess that everyone on here is uber interested or we would not be reading here

 

[ray9898]

If they did that they'd have to employ drone operators (they have to keep the drone in sight at all times per FAA regulations). Cheaper to get security cameras plus if Chris knew there was a drone operator onsite he'd not have taken the bodies there Good thought though!~

It is very likely this was a LE drone. They are pretty common these days. As you said, no way for the oil company to be running drones remotely.

 

[RickshawFan]

://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/2018/08/17/colorado-husband-arrested-wife-daughters-bodies-found-pregnancy-video-vpx.hln
Comes home after cheating behind her back, then that maniacal laugh,and his expression says it all.
He was not at all pleased.
So what does he do. Instead of being a man about it, getting divorce, taking care of his responsibilities, paying child support etc. Coming out about his extramarital activities. (Gay or not doesn't matter)
What a lowlife coward. Killing them all,then blaming it on her.

She doesn't seem happy about it, either. Doesn't she seem frightened?
And then there's that awful echo in that house, the whole emptiness of their lives (IMO)...

 

[pocketaccent]

But it IS evidence. Circumstantial evidence is evidence.

Yes, and that's all we have in this case.

 

[gitana1]

I could understand your list if it did not include the word "evidence". IMO, we should be careful with that word. Per LE, there is physical evidence tying CW to all 3 murders, but we dont know exactly what said evidence is. Nor do we know if the COD is consistent with what CW stated. A murder suspect is not a viable witness- JMO. For all we know, he could have poisened them all.

I am curious about what's on that baby monitor, though! CW must have some reason for mentioning this random detail.

Per SW, both daughters suffered from asthma. She is often seen on SM issuing their breathing treatments. I hate to even think this, but I'm wondering if Bella was "allegedly" blue from lack of oxygen because a certain dad "conveniently" forgot to issue their treatments.

There's still too much we don't know yet. MOO

All of this is evidence - with some commentary about the evidence (like, "it defies reason") added by me.

Every statement by the defendant, witness statements, behaviors by the perp, all of that is evidence. Whether he lied or not.

Some people are mistaken about what the word evidence means. What do you think it means?

I would be happy to discuss further and help clarify if you would like.

 

[Nah]

What you describe is malpractice. While it certainly may be your opinion, I don't think it's true or the complete story.

I wouldn’t say opinion...I would more say “assumption” based on my limited experience.

And people were wondering why CW’s lawyers did not seem to be looking into a lot of different avenues, so it just made me wonder if all public defenders were as unhelpful as the one I am familiar with through a friend.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

It seems that if people were not interested ( most of my friends are not), they would not be on WS. I venture a guess that everyone on here is uber interested or we would not be reading here

My family and friends aren’t interested either, but they always ask me what I know on the big cases.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, and that's all we have in this case.

And that's ok. By the way, DNA, fingerprints, damage to bones, bruising, petachiae (or however you spell that), stomach contents, etc, that's all circumstantial as well.

By law, circumstantial evidence cannot be given less weight than direct evidence (videotape of or witnesses to the killings, for example).

 

[Thepoet]

First of all WELCOME
I have not finished reading your post but I will, just wanted to put in my 2 cents on strangulation. I was in a abusive marriage and my ex would choke me all the time until I'd be out. He would straddle me and choke me with his bare hands. He was not a big guy only 5'9 about 180 but he was so evil and I could do nothing.

That is horrible, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Glad he's your EX! Yes, I heard women at the Center say the same thing. Later I read about it , unfortunately common in domestic violence.

 

[Nah]

She doesn't seem happy about it, either. Doesn't she seem frightened?
And then there's that awful echo in that house, the whole emptiness of their lives (IMO)...

That was weird. I can’t figure out if it is just weird now, in hindsight, or if it is actually weird regardless. I do feel like when he first read the shirt, he had to collect himself and decide how he was supposed to act.

Their house is pretty though.

 

[gitana1]

I don’t think the public defenders get paid very much, so I think they do the minimum possible. I have someone close to me who had to have a public defender briefly (not for a crime, for something else) and that guy didn’t do much more than show up to court. That was about it. It’s basically so you can say you have a lawyer.

Public defenders are only appointed in criminal cases. So it necessarily had to be a criminal case someone close to you had.

I get potential clients in my office all the time screaming about how crummy their current lawyer is and how they have "done nothing for my case! Nothing at all!"

Then I see the file and realize that's b.s. I never take over those cases.

 

[PommyMommy]

Family annihilators characteristics:

1. Overwhelmingly male. 83% in UK study. 95% in US study.
2. Mostly white and middle aged per the US study. Over half were in their 30's at the time of the crime per UK study.
3. Most frequent month of killings is August. And over half on weekends.
4. 81% attempt suicide after the killings.
5. 66% are motivated by family breakup. Second most common motivator is financial problems.
6. They feel they've fallen short of a societal ideal of manhood. They feel inadequate as men.
7. They typically have suffered abuse in childhood.
8. They tend to try to create an idealized version of family life and exert strict control over their households.
9. Those motivated by rage do so when they feel loss of control. Their rage causes the spouse to try to leave which makes them feel humiliation which is the driving factor in the killings. Shame of some sort tends to bethe biggest reason.
10. Those motivated by altruism feel they've let the family down and the family will suffer as a result.
11. Most, prior to murders are seen as loving husbands and good fathers, often holding down high profile jobs and seen publicly as being very, very successful.

Characteristics of family killers revealed: The male dominated crime most common in August

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/inside-mind-family-annihilators-75225?amp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5805eb48e4b08ddf9ece0fad/amp

The Last Psychiatrist: 8 Characteristics of Family Annihilators

Thank you for summarizing the characteristics. It's crazy how CW fits to a T. I'm looking at these cases for comparison. (Need to add method, motive, etc.)

Jeffrey MacDonald 1970 Wife, 2 daughters
John List 1971 Wife, mother, 3 children
Bradford Bishop 1976 Wife, mother, 3 children
Ronald Gene Simmons 1987 14 family, 2 strangers
Edward Zakrzewski 1994 Wife, 2 children
Phillip Austin 2000 Wife, 2 children, 2 dogs
Christian Longo 2001 Wife, 3 children
Neil Entwistle 2006 Wife, infant daughter
Neal Jacobson 2010 2010 Wife, twin sons age 7

 

[Shekkiec]

So no way to see a blue skin tone on their monitor.

Found what looks like could be model of hers it is 2013 . It shows capabilities and features and you can see light on camera pic and light darkened with pic . The quality of her pics make me def think room darkened . So blue hue could be a stretch even with light on maybe right? Even color if color? My mistake not going back to year she may have got it . What do you think

 

[gitana1]

I wouldn’t say opinion...I would more say “assumption” based on my limited experience.

And people were wondering why CW’s lawyers did not seem to be looking into a lot of different avenues, so it just made me wonder if all public defenders were as unhelpful as the one I am familiar with through a friend.

Just using your post as a jumping off place, CW's public defenders, by the way, seem super competent to me and thorough, in my professional opinion.

 

[human]

I want to say thanks to @GraceG for helping me to figure out the name of Edward Zakrzewski. (Also @MrsWatson and @Harriet Vane for offering to help).

He is an example of a family annihilator who did not commit suicide.

He had no criminal history, yet murdered his wife and two children (ages 5 and 7). He then went on the run. Several months later, someone identified him from the program Unsolved Mysteries, and he turned himself in.

This case was completely overshadowed by the OJ Simpson case - the bodies were found the morning of June 13, 1994, just hours after the bodies of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman were found.

He is still on death row today.

You can read more about him here

Killing his children with a machete. And then he merrily flies to Hawaii

 

[cottonweaver]

All of this is evidence - with some commentary by me about the evidence (like, "it defies reason") added by me.

Every statement by the defendant, witness statements, behaviors by the perp, all of that is evidence. Whether he lied or not.

Some people are mistaken about what the word evidence means. What do you think it means?

I would be happy to discuss further and help clarify if you would like.

And forgot to add earlier, your long post was great and great that the full collation of all we know is right there on page 1 so if we get any new posters believing that SW killed her own kids, we can just say - Page 1 of this thread.

 

[Seattle1]

By traipsing, I simply mean mucking through the scene of the crime and destroying evidence. I wasn't referring to the consent to search or permission or any of that.

Got it, just never associated law enforcement with traipsing around! (My teens, yes).

 

[RickshawFan]

Weld County: Sheriffs Office Arrested Report
This is the jail he is in . It looks pretty small it is a 200 bed unit . He will remain there probably till trial and sent to a federal prison

If convicted, he'd prolly end up in state prison.

 

[kebdal23]

Well, that's a genius idea, but I think the technology used to try and locate MH370 was spy satellites.

I'm not convinced a spy organization would be enthusiastic about helping Websleuths in this endeavor. Even if we're sincere and thankful.

But there are sleuthers just like us in real life today combing through these satellite images. It can’t be spy satellites. I will go check out the Facebook page that I follow regarding the plane disappearance and see if I can see what site they’re using to do this.