CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #14

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RickshawFan said:
I'm new to this case, and there's something I totally don't understand. SW evidently died in the process of having her pregnancy terminated by CW, or that's how I read the charges.

My imagination doesn't go to strangulation or suffocation AT ALL. It goes to bleeding to death after having a foetus forcibly removed.
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That's not a description of what he did, that's the legal terminology for the charge, which is listed after first degree murder. By killing her, he unlawfully terminated her pregnancy, not vice versa.
 
pocketaccent said:
As of now, my hunch is that CW's thought of killing his family began after Shenann came back from NC. They probably had an emotional conversation before she left for AZ, hence Shenann telling NA that she is going to need her more than ever when she comes back. I really don't think CW premeditated for weeks or months.

And IMO there's no such thing as 'very premeditated' vs 'premeditated'. Premeditation just need space of time.
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I think premeditation began near the end of the six weeks away, as he began to anticipate her return. He already knew she was going to leave the girls with him and then go on a business trip, so he probably started working stuff out early. He knew the party was coming up for the girls, and he knew when his wife was going to be home, so he tried to choose the longest period of time possible where his family wouldn’t be expected to be seen by anyone. But he couldn’t have known the flight would be late. And he couldn’t have known that the friend would show up on top of that. But the late flight really doomed his plan, because I think he had all the timing worked out perfectly before that.

(Re someone’s earlier post) I don’t know that the shrouded corpse would have been seen by the girls as a “practice run” by the dad. They really were not home that long between the six weeks and...well.... anyway.... I almost feel like it was a narcissistic threat by CW. Either he did it with the girls, and then when his wife found it, he blamed it solely on the girls. Or he left it that morning and then she thought the kids did it. She did say “They have each others’ backs” which hints that maybe the girls denied doing it.
 
gitana1 said:
In fact did he say something in oneof the interviews about the last three or few days being horrible? I need to add that to my list. The interviews were the day after the murders according to him. He killed his wife after she strangled the girls on Monday morning. So what did he mean by the "last few days"?

Someone who rarely posts noticed that recently. Perhaps he killed the girls on Sunday.
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There should be zero smiles/smirks/etc when you are pleading the return of your vanished family. No reason they are gone could be a good one. He looks really like he slept like a baby the night before the interview... instead of worrying what a dummy he is and how he just wiped out his family's lives and his too. I can't get over it.
 
Carolina Mom said:
I never knew that statements are considered evidence. I guess I'm confused by the definition...

Evidence: 'The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true/valid.'

If we don't facts to corroborate CW accounts of the murders, it's hard to process his statements as evidence.
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Statements are evidence whether true or not. Sometimes it's better evidence if the statements are false.

His statements are facts and information.

Here is an example from a hypothetical case:

Wife and baby are found dead in the home after dad returns home from work. He claims they were awake when he left for work.

He claims he worked the whole day and never came back to the house. Unbeknownst to him, a neighbor had a camera that recorded him coming home in the middle of the day and emerging from the house an hour later.

Dad's statement that he was not there is evidence. It can show he lied, likely because he is aware he harmed the family and is attempting to to conceal his involvement. It is a fact yang he gave that statement. His statement is a lie but it is information as to what he told investigators.

This is consciousness of guilt evidence and/or evidence that a jury can consider in relation to a suspect or witnesses credibility, in order to determine whether the prosecution's belief that he killed his family, is true.

So am attorney may give an opening statement as follows:

"The evidence will show that Peter murdered his wife and child. It will show he claimed he never came home from work. It will show that he did indeed come home from work so he lied." Etc.

Consciousness of Guilt Law and Legal Definition
Evidentiary rules allow a prosecutor to introduce testimony that tends to show that the defendants actions prove he knew he was guilty (at least of something). This is sometimes referred to as “consciousness of guilt”. For example, such evidence may include actions the defendant took to “cover up” his alleged crime. Flight, when unexplained, may indicate consciousness of guilt if the facts and the circumstances support it. A person's false statements as to (his/her) whereabouts at the time of the offense may tend to show a consciousness of guilt. Consciousness of Guilt Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.
 
PommyMommy said:
Thank you for summarizing the characteristics. It's crazy how CW fits to a T. I'm looking at these cases for comparison. (Need to add method, motive, etc.)

Jeffrey MacDonald 1970 Wife, 2 daughters
John List 1971 Wife, mother, 3 children
Bradford Bishop 1976 Wife, mother, 3 children
Ronald Gene Simmons 1987 14 family, 2 strangers
Edward Zakrzewski 1994 Wife, 2 children
Phillip Austin 2000 Wife, 2 children, 2 dogs
Christian Longo 2001 Wife, 3 children
Neil Entwistle 2006 Wife, infant daughter
Neal Jacobson 2010 2010 Wife, twin sons age 7
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gitana1 said:
David Anthony
Christopher Coleman. (Lest we forget)
Robert William Fisher
Stephen Sueppel
Christopher Foster
Chris Benoit
Cristopher Vaughn
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Sure is an imbalance of guys named Chris who are family annihilators.
 
about the garage code, if he had been smarter, he could have told LE that the code was 4321, but he hadn't been working well, so they may have to wait until he brings the remote.

If so, LE wouldn't have started out as suspicious as they did when he refused to give them a code.
 
gitana1 said:
Statements are evidence whether true or not. Sometimes it's better evidence if the statements are false.

His statements are facts and information.

Here is an example from a hypothetical case:

Wife and baby are found dead in the home after dad returns home from work. He claims they were awake when he left for work.

He claims he worked the whole day and never came back to the house. Unbeknownst to him, a neighbor had a camera that recorded him coming home in the middle of the day and emerging from the house an hour later.

Dad's statement that he was not there is evidence. It can show he lied, likely because he is aware he harmed the family and is attempting to to conceal his involvement. It is a fact yang he gave that statement. His statement is a lie but it is information as to what he told investigators.

This is consciousness of guilt evidence and/or evidence that a jury can consider in relation to a suspect or witnesses credibility, in order to determine whether the prosecution's belief that he killed his family, is true.

So am attorney may give an opening statement as follows:

"The evidence will show that Peter murdered his wife and child. It will show he claimed he never came home from work. It will show that he did indeed come home from work so he lied." Etc.
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Which makes me wonder if he told LE that he left home at the normal time that morning but the neighbours security cam outed the lie.
 
pocketaccent said:
As of now, my hunch is that CW's thought of killing his family began after Shenann came back from NC. They probably had an emotional conversation before she left for AZ, hence Shenann telling NA that she is going to need her more than ever when she comes back. I really don't think CW premeditated for weeks or months.

And IMO there's no such thing as 'very premeditated' vs 'premeditated'. Premeditation just need space of time.
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I believe CW came up with the idea and started planning while SW was in NC probably in part because of his affair. I believe the premeditation began at least a week BEFORE SW returned. I said/stressed; "very" because I believe CW put a lot of time, thought, and planning into the crime.
 
pocketaccent said:
Yes, and that's all we have in this case.
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We haven't heard if there is physical evidence, but in the an article dated August 28, 2018 in PEOPLE, it states:

"A source close to the investigation tells PEOPLE that Chris’ alleged defense is not plausible.

“There is absolutely no evidence that she killed her children,” the source tells PEOPLE in this week’s issue. “None at all. And there is physical evidence to tie him to their murders. Strangulation is a very personal way to kill someone, with a lot of physical contact. Just based on the preliminary evidence, everything is consistent with him killing them all.”
 
Jennifer17 said:
Which makes me wonder if he told LE that he left home at the normal time that morning but the neighbours security cam outed the lie.
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I think... think it was already mentioned he left a little earlier than usual and was backed up to his garage.
 
dgfred said:
I think... think it was already mentioned he left a little earlier than usual and was backed up to his garage.
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We don't know if he told LE that, though or admitted to them after they had the security footage. And it wasn't a little earlier, it was hours earlier.
 
Thepoet said:
I believe CW came up with the idea and started planning while SW was in NC probably in part because of his affair. I believe the premeditation began at least a week BEFORE SW returned. I said/stressed; "very" because I believe CW put a lot of time, thought, and planning into the crime.
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I just can't see it that way... he didn't do anything but take the bodies to the only place he really could. The 'I will straighten up later all this stuff/evidence' makes zero sense if he planned 'a lot'. Or just maybe it WAS a lot for him... being stupid and all.
 
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