CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #14

[Carolina Mom]

Statements are evidence whether true or not. Sometimes it's better evidence if the statements are false.

His statements are facts and information.

Here is an example from a hypothetical case:

Wife and baby are found dead in the home after dad returns home from work. He claims they were awake when he left for work.

He claims he worked the whole day and never came back to the house. Unbeknownst to him, a neighbor had a camera that recorded him coming home in the middle of the day and emerging from the house an hour later.

Dad's statement that he was not there is evidence. It can show he lied, likely because he is aware he harmed the family and is attempting to to conceal his involvement. It is a fact yang he gave that statement. His statement is a lie but it is information as to what he told investigators.

This is consciousness of guilt evidence and/or evidence that a jury can consider in relation to a suspect or witnesses credibility, in order to determine whether the prosecution's belief that he killed his family, is true.

So am attorney may give an opening statement as follows:

"The evidence will show that Peter murdered his wife and child. It will show he claimed he never came home from work. It will show that he did indeed come home from work so he lied." Etc.

Consciousness of Guilt Law and Legal Definition
Evidentiary rules allow a prosecutor to introduce testimony that tends to show that the defendants actions prove he knew he was guilty (at least of something). This is sometimes referred to as “consciousness of guilt”. For example, such evidence may include actions the defendant took to “cover up” his alleged crime. Flight, when unexplained, may indicate consciousness of guilt if the facts and the circumstances support it. A person's false statements as to (his/her) whereabouts at the time of the offense may tend to show a consciousness of guilt. Consciousness of Guilt Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Thank you for the clarification. This example helps me process it better. Hopefully his false statements will help the prosecution.

 

[Kadoober]

In fact did he say something in oneof the interviews about the last three or few days being horrible? I need to add that to my list. The interviews were the day after the murders according to him. He killed his wife after she strangled the girls on Monday morning. So what did he mean by the "last few days"?

Someone who rarely posts noticed that recently. Perhaps he killed the girls on Sunday.

Yes! It was an excellent point and I hope that poster sticks around

 

[cybervampira]

Thanks cv, clips are always great. That was last nights . Wondering if anyone saw the update on the redaction.
The detective mentioned " Steve" will have more on that tomorrow..

I hope they will have a new clip up soon. They have been posting regularly on the Facebook page. Here‘s an earlier one posted 21 hours ago:

Could the key to our unanswered questions be hidden under blacked out text in a document? People Senior Writer Steve Helling tells us what he knows

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=716341358715182

 

[Nah]

I just can't see it that way... he didn't do anything but take the bodies to the only place he really could. The 'I will straighten up later all this stuff/evidence' makes zero sense if he planned 'a lot'. Or just maybe it WAS a lot for him... being stupid and all.

He really was stupid.

But think about it. If the plane was not delayed, he would have had several hours extra. Girls already dead. Wife could be gone as soon as she got home. CW would have had double the time to get all of them into an oil tank. Hiding place was excellent. Almost impossible to trace, as long as he moved the bodies carefully.

Get back home, clean up, text his wife, and go to work.

Probably would have been helpful if he had not been so overconfident about his “acting” skills. Since he didn’t have them. Probably got inspired by other recent disappearance cases and figured that if all the bodies were safely encased in oil, he’d be okay—no bodies, no crime.

But he didn’t have a Plan B. So when Plan A screwed up, he screwed up. And then he made it worse by acting totally stupid in front of the media and the police.

Which, good. I’m glad he didn’t get away with it. But I do think that in his mind, the planning was airtight, provided everything fell into place. Which it did not.

 

[MerryB]

Just using your post as a jumping off place, CW's public defenders, by the way, seem super competent to me and thorough, in my professional opinion.

Agreed.

 

[Sleutherfly]

I didn’t say they were lazy. Just I know in the case I am familiar with, the defender did absolutely nothing to defend his client, even though the client was innocent of what he was being accused of. His public defender basically told him to swallow it and go on.

I'm a little behind so sorry if someone already said this but public attorneys are usually attorneys that are just starting out and need experience. They are perceived as not being good because they are inexperienced and many of them want to be prosecutors. I'm a little shocked that a hot shot attorney hasn't stepped into this case yet. They usually do it for free for the publicity.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I wanted to quote Gitana's excellent post, but for some reason the 'quote feature" isn't working for me. Someone...help??

 

[Deleted member 117120]

It was said on HLN that the baby monitor does not save recordings so unfortunately there will not be footage from the monitor. If he claims SW turned the lights on, wouldn't he have heard the child make a noise? When I turn my daughter's lights on in the morning, she whines. I would think after SW was gone for the weekend, if she turned the child's lights on they would at least say Hi to Mom or something. I think the lights were off and of course I don't believe his story at all.

CW knew in advance that the baby monitor did not save recordings and that is one of the reasons why he repeatedly mentions it because there is no way of proving what he said and he is hoping the jury believes his story.

 

[molly1255]

I'm new to this case, and there's something I totally don't understand. SW evidently died in the process of having her pregnancy terminated by CW, or that's how I read the charges.

My imagination doesn't go to strangulation or suffocation AT ALL. It goes to bleeding to death after having a foetus forcibly removed.

I agree that the charge against CW does read differently than the scenario where SW died and because she died, the baby died. I don't know the answer and while there has been discussion on this forum, it is still a question I have in my mind.

 

[MrsWatson]

David Anthony
Christopher Coleman. (Lest we forget)
Robert William Fisher
Stephen Sueppel
Christopher Foster
Chris Benoit
Cristopher Vaughn

Lots of Chris variations there. Weird.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

@katydid23
(from previous thread, RH= Ross Harris)
katydid 23: "Yes, I agree and hadn't thought of it before. But there are some strong similarities between RH and CW.

Besides the double life of cheating, and deceit, there was the talk of Ross being such a devoted, loving father. Many people said he talked about his boy all of the time, and was very devoted.

But then, we hear from his own mouth, that while he is home with his son, who is laying next to him , Dad of the Year is sexting with underage girls and various prostitutes.

And after taking his son to breakfast, he promptly FORGETS about him, within one minute of leaving ChikFilla, and turns the wrong way, failing to drop him off to daycare.

So there seem to be some glaring similarities here. Both of these 'fathers' were seen by others as caring, devoted family men--and as loving fathers.

Yet when investigated closely, they had very dark sides to them, and were living out secret, greedy lives.

And both of these men initially became prime suspects, because of their inability to appear emotionally distraught by the loss of their children. They acted too cool and unbothered. Because they were?"
----------------------------------------------

Exactly, katydid!

Let's hope for one more similarity. A swift, unanimous guilty verdict on all charges for CW. If the case goes to trial of course.

Yes! They had the same motives too. Both sick of married life with kids, wanting to be free to pursue sex without any encumbrances, along with not wanting to pay any child support.

At least with CW, no one is claiming that his double life/cheating is irrelevant. It really bugged me when folks kept saying Ross Harris's double life had nothing to do with the case and should have been inadmissible. That's even the basis of his appeal, I believe. Ugh!

 

[chi123]

I just can't see it that way... he didn't do anything but take the bodies to the only place he really could. The 'I will straighten up later all this stuff/evidence' makes zero sense if he planned 'a lot'. Or just maybe it WAS a lot for him... being stupid and all.

If he had more time to get her into an oil tank too it would have been a long time before they were found imo, and what evidence would even be left? Obviously it would point to him, but could they prove it if the bodies were there for say 6+ months?

Between the flight delay, NUA coming over really early and his neighbors camera showing that his truck was the only possible way they could have left completely blew up his plan, but I think the oil tanks would have been a pretty good hiding spot, as disturbing as it is to think about.

 

[katydid23]

Every scenario you guys describe defy CW’s explanation that he reacted in a rage! Rage means not taking time to think about, “I better get her in such a way that she can’t leave scratch marks,” rage means you grab her neck and have at it!

I believe he felt rage towards his wife. But I don't think he killed her in a sudden, impulsive rage. I think his anger had simmered internally for a long time. And eventually he couldn't take it any longer.

I think he had contemplated, fantasized about getting rid of his family for awhile. But as the 3rd birth approached, he just needed to get it done. And that 6 weeks of being a bachelor was hard to let go of.

Being alone all weekend with the girls showed him what divorce/separation would be like. He did not want that at all.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Search up earth explorer USGS. You need either an address or coordinates and a date to start your search. The website is free. I got this from one of the Facebook groups dedicated to finding the plane. I don’t know if anyone on here has the exact location though. Or how close to the spot the image can zoom in

The GPS Coordinates on the affidavit are 40.21624374, -104.36667

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Hmm...this makes me think of a possibility. Could the girls have been in the master bedroom? SW mentions online that at least one of the girls liked to sleep with mom and dad. Do I have that detail right? I can see the girls wanting to be in their mom's bed when she wasn't home (and I can see her heading to the couch).

They might have had a monitor in the master bedroom so they could see the girls while the parents were downstairs.

In that case, were all three killed in one place?

TOTAL speculation, just thinking aloud - might not make sense.

jmo

Great point Inthedetails, CW could have planned the murders to all happen in the master bedroom therefore only one room to clean and get rid of evidence in. More contained crimes and crime scene.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Does anyone have the last photo of SW from Az. Wondering if she has her ring on.
They could have already decided to separate before she even went to AZ and planned on working out details when she returned.

Yes SW was wearing her wedding set and she had long pointed fingernails too just in case some are wondering if there would be evidence on children or under her nails and whether CW planted evidence under her nails etc etc.

 

[PommyMommy]

Search up earth explorer USGS. You need either an address or coordinates and a date to start your search. The website is free. I got this from one of the Facebook groups dedicated to finding the plane. I don’t know if anyone on here has the exact location though. Or how close to the spot the image can zoom in

Sorry if already answered - the GPS coordinates are in the affidavit: https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...18CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

Greetings all! After many years of reading, I finally have some time to participate in this amazing site! I think he started talking because he knows LE has phones/computers and possibly witnesses and felt the story was probably about to come out and he wanted his side of the story to be heard first. IMO he's legit just from hearing the voice side of his story. It could be if we actually saw his eyes, body language, etc. we might change our opinion, however.

Welcome to Websleuths, TexasTS! ​

Sure is an imbalance of guys named Chris who are family annihilators.

Crazy!

I just can't see it that way... he didn't do anything but take the bodies to the only place he really could. The 'I will straighten up later all this stuff/evidence' makes zero sense if he planned 'a lot'. Or just maybe it WAS a lot for him... being stupid and all.

It seems logical to me when I consider that her plane was delayed for several hours. He ran out of time. IMO, JMO, MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

I hope they will have a new clip up soon. They have been posting regularly on the Facebook page. Here‘s an earlier one posted 21 hours ago:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=716341358715182

Thanks again CV.

So he's also hinting re co-worker AP too by saying that his LE source when asked about their gender would not specify on that either.

It would be so ironic if the co-worker AP was not the person who the internet thinks it is!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Lots of Chris variations there. Weird.

I didn’t notice, but there sure is.

 

[Ravenesque]

I never knew that statements are considered evidence. I guess I'm confused by the definition...

Evidence: 'The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true/valid.'

If we don't have facts to corroborate CW accounts of the murders, it's hard to process his statements as evidence.

isn't finding the bodies at his place of work, from information he provided, a fact?