CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[Mrspratcher]

Just some procedural whining by defense. DA was to respond by today so maybe we'll know more after it's posted tomorrow.

IMO it’s a tactic to get a gag order.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think he killed them all, and I don't think the main reason was his freedom, or even disliking his wife. I think the main reason was the financial situation. Whether his wife was thinking of the separation, or he was thinking of the same, with three kids and the family time potentially not divided 50/50 + a new kid on the way, he simply did not want to pay alimony/child support, or thought of new bills to accrue.

They were in dire straights, financially. Now, SW does not come across as an unreasonable person. But I am thinking that medical bills could be the reason for being in debt. New family, two young kids, SW's lupus, possibly, new pregnancy in the context of lupus after two high-risk pregnancies... This could add to the financial burden, and in the divorce, he probably would end up paying more.

To me it seems like the most plausible reason, if of course there could be any.

I agree that financial trouble plays a major role in the killings. I don't think medical expenses played a big role (though maybe). Instead, I think they spent more than they earned and they didn't pay their bills. Simple as that.

All the other stuff is bad, too, of course. He might have strayed because of the financial situation as well - a way of running away rather than rolling up his sleeves and doing what it takes to solve the money issues, like downsizing, getting a second job, etc. People can survive financial crises - he chose to destroy his family instead.

I do think perhaps the pregnancy ruined his story that he and his wife were no longer intimate. With SW's public SM, it wouldn't be hard for APs to find out the truth. And, if he was fearful of same-sex relationships being exposed, that is likely a big factor too.

But, I think the crux of all this is money problems.

jmo

 

[The Saint]

Agreed.

I'm not a lawyer so this may be a dumb question, but what do the defense lawyers do in a situation like this- where their client immediately created a "confession" that makes no sense? B/c now they're stuck with this ridiculous scenario. It seems to me CW has painted them in a corner, no?

I don't see how it will be possible for them to make a defense case out of his claim. Do they look for ways to just try to create some type of reasonable doubt? I just can't imagine what they're going to do to try to prove him innocent of the girls' murders. Maybe at this point they're just trying to get him to do a plea deal?

I'm interested in the answer to this question too. Lawyers are officers of the court and aren't supposed to lie, so the old adage is that a defense atty never asks the client whether they committed the crime or not.

By CW telling his attys that he strangled SW in a rage, it still leaves
various defenses about what caused or contributed to that uncontrollable rage and why he didn't call 911 and the decided to dump the bodies.

 

[Bill Carson]

The Defense is requesting an investigation into whether extrajudicial statements were made, and asking the State to provide, in writing, how they have excercided reasonable care when it comes to the dissemination of prejudicial info. Would love to see the motion.

That's awesome.

For the non-lawyers, what this means is that the defense attorneys are taking actions to protect the defendant's right to a fair trial by preventing the case from being tried in the media before trial.

And FYI, this is not just about protecting that CW's rights, it is much more than that. It is about protecting the rights of all citizens from improper actions by the government that jeopardize the right to a fair jury trial.

 

[BingoBongo]

This is an interesting analysis but as you stated, it does not merit any diagnosis. Additionally, Narcissistic Personality Disorder is INDEED a recognized mental health illness in DSM5. Lastly, simply because he had an affair (though not a good choice), does not make him a narcissist and utilizing such titles should be done with extreme caution.

Forgot to ask; narcissism is a trait, no? Narcissist Personality Disorder, is different that just narcissism, yes? We are all narcissistic to some degree, from healthy, to unhealthy, I think?

 

[The Saint]

For MerryB and PommyMommy,

Since I hate to give any diagnosis without formal assessment, I can comfortable say that I don’t really see signs of narcissism. I more so see signs of someone who is knowingly telling a lie and is hoping he is telling it convincingly enough for it to be believed.

There are many different cues I picked up on while watching the interview. Subtle moments where C.W. appeared to suppress a smile or smirk, others where he appeared to be thinking more than would be reasonable for facts that should have been readily available. There were other little ‘tells” but overall:

I would have to say that there is nothing overtly present to suggest extreme emotional disturbance but that is only assessed by viewing the video interviews and reading what he has publicly stated. There is no possible (nor legal) way I could offer an actual diagnosis without having performed an actual evaluation on C.W. for myself.

Please feel free to ask any questions!

Are you just going by CW's porch interviews or have you watched a lot of the videos that SW posted?

 

[Aimielou]

I'm new here. How do I make a new posy and not reply to a thread?

Also, did anyone see AB and her piece on SW odd FB activity in July and August? Thoughts?

 

[Bill Carson]

IMO it’s a tactic to get a gag order.

From what the media was reporting, I assumed that a gag order was already in place.

 

[BingoBongo]

There’s no gag order. If there was one, neither party would be allowed to discuss the case in public. Both the State and Defense are currently allowed to discuss the case under very limited circumstances.

Actually, I had no idea if there was, or wasn't a gag order in this case. I should have included the entire thread w/my reply, my apologies as it made my post disjointed by not doing so. Someone else had posted about gag orders and another said they didn't think gag orders applied to jail employees. I thought they did.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

IMO it’s a tactic to get a gag order.

Is there a good possibility for a gag order? If there was a gag order how does that work?

 

[Gardenista]

I'm new here. How do I make a new posy and not reply to a thread?

Also, did anyone see AB and her piece on SW odd FB activity in July and August? Thoughts?

Scroll down to the bottom and you should see a reply box. I thought the eyeroll emoji in her June 30th post about him sleeping in and working out post was interesting.

 

[Mrspratcher]

From what the media was reporting, I assumed that a gag order was already in place.

Haha! I agree! Very little information coming out!

 

[Aimielou]

Scroll down to the bottom and you should see a reply box. I thought the eyeroll emoji in her June 30th post about him sleeping in and working out post was interesting.

Thanks. It seemed to me that AB was raising the

Scroll down to the bottom and you should see a reply box. I thought the eyeroll emoji in her June 30th post about him sleeping in and working out post was interesting.

 

[Aimielou]

Thanks. It seemed to me that AB was raising the

Thanks. It seemed to.me that AB was raising the topic that her drop off in videos and family pics could be something the defense uses to say she snapped.

 

[The Saint]

Forgot to ask; narcissism is a trait, no? Narcissist Personality Disorder, is different that just narcissism, yes? We are all narcissistic to some degree, from healthy, to unhealthy, I think?

A great book about how we can have mild, overlapping disorders is called:
"Shadow Syndromes: The Mild Forms of Major Mental Disorders That Sabotage Us" by Ratey and Johnson

My sister kept it on her coffee table for the world to see. It was full of colored Stickies that had our family members' names posted on multiple syndromes as "diagnosed" by my sister.

 

[BabyButterfly]

From AB 9/6/18
1. Disturbing pattern emerging on SW’s FB timeline. Why did her loving family videos slow to a trickle just before the unthinkable?
2. Feb 21 videos, Mar 6 videos, Apr 18 videos, May 18 videos, June 14 videos, July 5 videos, August 0 videos
3. Feb - Vegas w/ CW, all good, Mar, good, too, Apr big month, SW featured in company mag, went to New Orleans w/out C.W., May CW’s birthday, June - the pregnancy announcement, late June San Diego w/ CW. All is well. Last time C.W. appears in video. Couple photos, that’s it. July trip to NC, 4 days into NC trip SW posts, “Chris is living the Bachelor life. Ate t-bones for dinner the last 3 nights and bought shrimp and goodies. He’s sleeping and working out.” In July videos drop precipitously. CeCe Birthday was last video. No videos or pictures of Daddy in NC. Aug 4 - strange post. “The older I get the more scared I am to let her out into the world...”
4. SW’s moms friend said they were headed for separation.
5. Something happened in NC, she stopped posting about C.W.
6. Aug 6 SW posts about trip to AZ.
7. Aug 9 last photo published doll covered with sheet.
8. Pattern is significant, drop off significant. Didn’t include herself in Birthday wish to C.W., only mentioned girls. SW may have known about affair.

The doll pic was not the last thing posted. There were several posts before and after that. I saw more posts, this is not heresay. I was not friends with CW, on Facebook, but am friends with some that were, they said his account was deleted 7 days prior to SW was missing. This was when they were both in NC.

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks. It seemed to.me that AB was raising the topic that her drop off in videos and family pics could be something the defense uses to say she snapped.

Yeah. She was trying to figure out what the defense might use in an effort to sell their scenario that Shanann did it.

A guest suggested that the fact that Shanann made no posts on her trip (she usually made multiple), and the fact that her friend said that she was not feeling well, the defense could try and spin that in their favor, and perhaps say that she was behaving strangely. This could also benefit the prosecution as well.

That seemed to be the best they could come up with, so good luck Mr Watts.

 

[The Saint]

Ok. The picture got taken down. But I'll correct the spelling of Cliff Van Zandt's name.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Scroll down to the bottom and you should see a reply box. I thought the eyeroll emoji in her June 30th post about him sleeping in and working out post was interesting.

Currently on SW Facebook page it starts at June 28th, 2018.
Did you see the June 30th post you reference above prior to her account being put into legacy mode?
Also, whoever modified the SW Facebook page and removed all the posts made after June 28th, 2018 up until to date, I wonder why the photo of the covered doll is still in SW photos album dated Aug 9, 2018 under SW photos but the actual post has been removed. It must be an oversight on that person's part and the person who deleted the posts after June 28, 2018 didn't realize they needed to delete the photo as well.

 

[Bill Carson]

Haha! I agree! Very little information coming out!

Well, and part of that assumption on my part was based on the statement that the PD's office released that said that they would not be commenting on the case. And building on that, this being a high-profile case that has generated a lot of interest from the public.