CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[MassGuy]

All the media noise about affairs and what's going on at the jail, etc. The defense is reacting to something leaked. Unfortunately we just don't know what that is.

I would guess though that it is definitely not the item about the jail which the defense, IMO, probably leaked.

Yeah. The jail leak was likely to make Watts sound sympathetic, which would deflect slightly from the reported leaks from LE, in regard to the affairs.

 

[Layla123]

All the media noise about affairs and what's going on at the jail, etc. The defense is reacting to something leaked. Unfortunately we just don't know what that is.

I would guess though that it is definitely not the item about the jail which the defense, IMO, probably leaked.

You’re right. Multiple affairs came from Steve Helling, the People Mag writer, and he said he got it from a police source. Are the police held under the same gag rules as the DA and Defense?

 

[Layla123]

All the media noise about affairs and what's going on at the jail, etc. The defense is reacting to something leaked. Unfortunately we just don't know what that is.

I would guess though that it is definitely not the item about the jail which the defense, IMO, probably leaked.

This is from the Colorado Public Defenders Office

“It is the policy and practice of the Office of the State Public Defender that attorneys and other professionals appointed to represent an individual charged with a criminal offense do not comment, publicly or off the record, on the pending criminal case. By statute, the Office is required to comply with the Colorado Rules of Professional Conduct and the American Bar Association standards relating to the administration of criminal justice.”

Media requests regarding Christopher Watts | Office of the Colorado State Public Defender

 

[AllGrace]

I think its likely.

I agree that he probably strangled them. Because to have any hope of blaming it on her, he has to at least give the right COD.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree that he probably strangled them. Because to have any hope of blaming it on her, he has to at least give the right COD.

That’s a great point.

 

[Bill Carson]

Yeah. The jail leak was likely to make Watts sound sympathetic, which would deflect slightly from the reported leaks from LE, in regard to the affairs.

See, I interpret the jail leak as favorable for the prosecution, because it seems to imply that he is remorseful for what he has done (i.e., murdering his entire family). IOW, it makes him regret those crimes he is guilty of.

 

[BabyButterfly]

BabyButterfly said: ↑
The doll pic was not the last thing posted. There were several posts before and after that. I saw more posts, this is not heresay. I was not friends with CW, on Facebook, but am friends with some that were, they said his account was deleted 7 days prior to SW was missing. This was when they were both in NC.

Are you saying that CW deleted his Facebook account when they were both in NC?
What were the dates SW was in NC?
What days did CW join SW in NC?
What day did SW return to CO?
What day did SW go to AZ?

They were in NC from the last week of June, until the first week of August. CW went the first week, then returned the last week. SW went to AZ August 10-12. I don't have exact dates, I didn't realize how important the dates would be....

 

[MassGuy]

See, I interpret the jail leak as favorable for the prosecution, because it seems to imply that he is remorseful for what he has done (i.e., murdering his entire family). IOW, it makes him regret those crimes he is guilty of.

Yeah, there’s definitely more than one way to look at it.

On the other side. If the defense really was going to push this tale that Shanann murdered the kids, I could view this as being an effort to garner sympathy for this poor man who had his family taken away from him, and now has nothing left to live for.

 

[mickey2942]

Yeah, there’s definitely more than one way to look at it.

On the other side. If the defense really was going to push his tale that Shanann murdered the kids, I could view this as being an effort to garner sympathy for this poor man who had his family taken away from him, and now has nothing left to live for.

Until the jury hears about his cheating, and shows pictures of dead little girls, covered with crude oil. A beautiful wife, telling him she is pregnant, contrasted with a picture of her shallow grave, and discusses her injuries.

End of sympathy.

 

[MassGuy]

Until the jury hears about his cheating, and shows pictures of dead little girls, covered with crude oil. A beautiful wife, telling him she is pregnant, contrasted with a picture of her shallow grave, and discusses her injuries.

End of sympathy.

Absolutely.

 

[AllGrace]

Yeah, there’s definitely more than one way to look at it.

On the other side. If the defense really was going to push his tale that Shanann murdered the kids, I could view this as being an effort to garner sympathy for this poor man who had his family taken away from him, and now has nothing left to live for.

Well, if he has nothing left to live for...he could save the taxpayers some money and a lot of family members massive amount of grief learning more details.

 

[MerryB]

They were in NC from the last week of June, until the first week of August. CW went the first week, then returned the last week. SW went to AZ August 10-12. I don't have exact dates, I didn't realize how important the dates would be....

So according to this timeline, it sounds like CW deleted his FB account while he was in NC with SW & her family.
I wonder if she was either suspicious & wanted to see it, or if he didn’t want someone seeing him tagged in any photos while there...

 

[gitana1]

You’re right. Multiple affairs came from Steve Helling, the People Mag writer, and he said he got it from a police source. Are the police held under the same gag rules as the DA and Defense?

Witnesses are subject to gag orders along with parties, typically. LE are already the bulk of the witnesses on the witness list. I'm not sure who runs the local jail but if the agency is not on the witness list yet, they surely would be potential witnesses and likely subject to a gag order.

Also, LE works closely with the DA. I'm trying to think of a scenario where an LE agency involved in a case could be free of a gag order that affected named witnesses and the parties (prosecution and defense). It seems unlikely.

I see no indication of any kind in the record of a current gag order. Prosecution routinely state they aren't talking so that's no indication. The investigation continues, BTW.

I do think the defense is setting up for a gag order and I think it could be easy to get. I don't think the prosecution would necessarily object to one.

 

[PommyMommy]

"there is nothing overtly present to suggest extreme emotional disturbance"

Killing your wife, (and probably daughters/unborn son) and placing your children in oil tanks suggest extreme emotional disturbance to me.

Jus' say'n

Defendants charged with murder or attempted murder may seek to mitigate the charges against them by claiming, and proving, that when they intentionally murdered or attempted to murder their victim, they did so under the influence of an extreme emotional disturbance (EED) for which there was a reasonable explanation or excuse.

Extreme Emotional Disturbance (Forensic Psychology) - iResearchNet

 

[Deleted member 117120]

They were in NC from the last week of June, until the first week of August. CW went the first week, then returned the last week. SW went to AZ August 10-12. I don't have exact dates, I didn't realize how important the dates would be....

Am I allowed to post pics from SW public Facebook page to correlate with those dates and with pics of SW and CW together for those dates? Reason being is it may help shed some light IMO. Just don't want to get another time out!

 

[BabyButterfly]

Am I allowed to post pics from SW public Facebook page to correlate with those dates and with pics of SW and CW together for those dates? Reason being is it may help shed some light IMO.

I'm new here, but I don't think you can link, maybe you can copy? I forget the rules.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip>

That being said, (and I am NOT a pro in the field of the mind/personality) I do see narcissism in CW.

This is why - he appears (from SW's videos, his FB and Instagram, comments by those who know him, the news videos of him, and his confession) to be somewhat introverted, until "brought out" by someone else (brought out by SW for a time, then by his affair(s)).

Covert/vulnerable/hypersentive narcissists often simmer inside, hiding their needs/wants/desires for life until one day it all goes to hell in their rage. I know narcissism isn't a disorder, but a trait we all share, in differing degrees...I believe his, in conjunction with his inner anger, came to a head one day and he lost control...and that, in my view, makes him disordered.

It seems like he may have been acting like many high spectrum narcissists in that he was attracted to someone who had issues that made them vulnerable (SW's divorce and Lupus) and maybe even "love bombed" her, based on her FB posts (she kept giving him reasons to bail, he kept pursuing). She didn't stay vulnerable, she appears to have excelled at life. He lost control of her (if he ever really had it), and he began to lose his "hero" status, at least with her. He may have been seeking to recapture that elsewhere via affair(s).

She, and the kids, were in his way. The classic "discard", to the max.

Narcissism is a trait. Narcissistic personality disorder might be a mixed bag (like many of these disorders). I think that recently narcissism has been exploited to such a degree that it lost any relevance. We have to remember that "narcissism" as a trait might be common, NPD, however, creates problems in the life of the person suffering from it. It is a "disorder".

I once read that many serial killers or murderers like Scott Peterson would score highly on control parametres.

I also wonder if perhaps some suffer from alexithymia (being not in touch with own emotions). It is an interesting symptom; most often, benign and manifesting as social issues and lack of empathy. Most people with alexithymia are great people but some have trouble communicating with even family members. Of course in the context of the criminals, it is a tiny piece of a huge puzzle.

Alexithymia - Wikipedia .

 

[Layla123]

New court filing: the defense is accusing the prosecution or someone in their office of making prejudicial statements; not sure which statement(s) because it looks like the motion was filed under seal. Below is the Court’s Order allowing the State to provide a response by 9/5/18. The response, if any, is not available online.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Watts-C-2.pdf

CW’s Public Defender must have a pretty high opinion of himself if he thinks he’s going to be able to convince 12 jurors that Shanann Watts strangled her children.

 

[Bill Carson]

Until the jury hears about his cheating, and shows pictures of dead little girls, covered with crude oil. A beautiful wife, telling him she is pregnant, contrasted with a picture of her shallow grave, and discusses her injuries.

End of sympathy.

Yeah, his goose is cooked. His best case scenario is life w/o parole, ISTM.

 

[Thora_Jay]

I don’t see why not.

Great thank you! It is important and I found it while searching the company website looking to see if they had roving security patrol for the oil tanks.
I found a link that shows they have 24/7 personal and tanks have level senors. So do the company trucks.
So if those tanks are included in this link than when the level changed, immediately alarms would have gone off and on a screen a person would have seen in real time a breach in that tank and action would have been taken at that time.
Please let me know if I am wrong on this, but it does state oil tanks along with natural gas.
Thank you for your time and help. I truly appreciate it.
Here is the link
Operations