CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[Layla123]

Yeah, his goose is cooked. His best case scenario is life w/o parole, ISTM.

I want to see the tape of his confession to the police when he talks of seeing Bella sprawled out and blue and SW strangling CeCe. Did he express any emotion, or did he use his on the front porch monotone?

 

[nwmouse]

Yeah, his goose is cooked. His best case scenario is life w/o parole, ISTM.

That's what I think. His defense team will probably consider it a victory if he gets Life W/O Parole instead of the needle. Adding a MOO

 

[nwmouse]

Until the jury hears about his cheating, and shows pictures of dead little girls, covered with crude oil. A beautiful wife, telling him she is pregnant, contrasted with a picture of her shallow grave, and discusses her injuries.

End of sympathy.

This. CW's goose is so well cooked its burned.

 

[Bill Carson]

CW’s Public Defender must have a pretty high opinion of himself if he thinks he’s going to be able to convince 12 jurors that Shanann Watts strangled her children.

Why do you think that is the approach of the PD at all?

I've said this before, and I'll elaborate: CW's "confession" will allow his PDs to sleep at night.

A criminal defense attorney's job is to zealously defend the client and to make sure the client's constitutional rights are not infringed.

IF a criminal defense attorney thinks the client is actually innocent, then defense attorney has the weight of the world on his/her shoulders. In a (potential) death penalty hey believe that the fate of the client's life is in their hands. That is a huge burden to bear. If defendant is found guilty, then the attorney will feel a residual sense of guilt and wonder what they could have done differently to vindicate the client.

If on the other hand the defense attorney knows the client is factually guilty, then that takes a lot of the burden away: they still have the job of zealously defending the client and they will seek to obtain a Not Guilty verdict if possible; they need to protect the client's rights and test the State's case by putting them to trial (if a plea deal cannot be worked out). But at the end of the day, if they've worked hard and done their job right, then there are no regrets when the client is found guilty.

The former scenario is why I gave up practicing criminal defense a long time ago. Too much stress. And it is especially demoralizing when your client tells you they are innocent and you believe them; you work your butt off, but despite your valiant efforts the client is found guilty and sentenced to prison, and THEN you find out your client was lying to you all along--playing you for a sucker just like everyone else in their life. You feel used, and that's not a good feeling.

Now, the defense attorneys you usually see on these high profile cases are a little bit different, in that they are highly compensated, hired guns, and they are jaded enough that it might not bother them what happens to the client at the end of the day. They just want to win: it's about being competitive and drawing a crowd.

 

[nwmouse]

I want to see the tape of his confession to the police when he talks of seeing Bella sprawled out and blue and SW strangling CeCe. Did he express any emotion, or did he use his on the front porch monotone?

I've watched some videos of CW and the one thing that comes to mind about his personality is: colorless and going through the motions. MOO but he has as much charisma as a snail...its almost as though he mimics people who have real emotions and his pretense comes across as phony.

 

[Seattle1]

Great thank you! It is important and I found it while searching the company website looking to see if they had roving security patrol for the oil tanks.
I found a link that shows they have 24/7 personal and tanks have level senors. So do the company trucks.
So if those tanks are included in this link than when the level changed, immediately alarms would have gone off and on a screen a person would have seen in real time a breach in that tank and action would have been taken at that time.
Please let me know if I am wrong on this, but it does state oil tanks along with natural gas.
Thank you for your time and help. I truly appreciate it.
Here is the link
Operations

That's great info, thanks. In looking at CERVI #318, it's not a well pad or production tank so I don't think that it would be included in the sensor link. The crude storage tanks at #318 are equipped with an overflow, and more than likely monitored for ground spill and/or contamination by visual inspection. MOO

 

[Colorado303]

So if you’re CW, and the why was financial, sexual, freedom, other drama/issues-related, how are you feeling now? Mad or surprised to be in jail obviously and staring down life or the DP, but hey my family is gone, and so I feel relieved in some warped way? Or are all of the reasons you did this now completely pointless, so you’re contemplating killing yourself at some point? Or are you too much of a coward for that? Or are you taking things day by day? If he can manage to kill himself before a plea deal or trial, maybe in his mind he’s not guilty—at least not found guilty. Who knows what goes through these people’s minds.

I bet he feels like a victim — it’s completely unfair and all Shanann’s fault.

 

[MindHunter13]

Are you just going by CW's porch interviews or have you watched a lot of the videos that SW posted?

This analysis was just by his porch interviews. It's difficult to compile all the different sources in one area, then timeline then, analyze them and then finally compile an assessment. Maybe not necessarily difficult but definitely time consuming.

 

[Bill Carson]

Defendants charged with murder or attempted murder may seek to mitigate the charges against them by claiming, and proving, that when they intentionally murdered or attempted to murder their victim, they did so under the influence of an extreme emotional disturbance (EED) for which there was a reasonable explanation or excuse.

Extreme Emotional Disturbance (Forensic Psychology) - iResearchNet

I'm going to invite the other lawyers or people with knowledge of the criminal law to correct me if I am wrong, but...

If I understand the criminal law correctly, and assuming that the state does not seek the death penalty, I think that a conviction of these pending charges would carry an automatic sentence of life without the possibility of parole. That means there would be no punishment phase of this trial. No friends to take the stand to testify about what an upstanding guy CW is; no experts talking about recidivism; none of that.

Now, I suppose the defense attorneys will probably try to make the case any way they can that CW didn't have the mental capacity to act intentionally, and if the are successful, maybe the charge is lowered to a Murder 2 charge or something like that, but I think (IMO) that approach is very unlikely to succeed.

 

[MindHunter13]

What are you seeking? The motion?

Anything. I remember you're good at finding items of substance so figured if you came across anything not already available, maybe you would post it?

 

[Bill Carson]

I've watched some videos of CW and the one thing that comes to mind about his personality is: colorless and going through the motions. MOO but he has as much charisma as a snail...its almost as though he mimics people who have real emotions and his pretense comes across as phony.

Yeah, some of his closest friends referred to him as "Shy Chris." I think it may be more than shyness. A sort of inability to relate. Maybe a kind of social anxiety disorder, perhaps? But it doesn't lend itself to garnering the jury's (or public's) sympathy. It just comes across as weird and out of touch.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I needed a reminder as well so posted SOCIAL MEDIA, FACEBOOK, TWITTER RULES in post #384. @Idbd - sorry but you can't post pictures from SW facebook; and @BabyButterfly - no copy either. You can only direct members to the link you're looking at. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Thanks for the clarification.
What I can say is based on SW public Facebook page:
SW and CW went on a Thrive business trip to San Diego from June 22 ~ June 26th, 2018.
It appears SW and CW landed back in CO June 26th, 2018 and 12 hours later CW and SW flew with their daughters to NC.
SW was still posting photos of CW and herself together as a couple on June 24th and June 25th, 2018.
By all accounts, the photos SW posted of CW and herself during that business trip and the subsequent travel to NC they looked relaxed and happy.
Not sure what happened after that point in time.

 

[mickey2942]

I bet he feels like a victim — it’s completely unfair and all Shanann’s fault.

This is so common among people in prison. Long, dramatic stories, about how it is "someone's fault" that they are in prison. The flawed criminal thinking is absolutely magical.

I find Jeffrey McDonald to be particularly interesting, as he continues to this day, to strenuously deny that he is guilty. He is as innocent as a lamb.

The fact that a Green Beret had a few scratches, an almost surgical procedure, punctured lung, compared with the slaughterhouse of death his wife and children, violently "overkilled". And people still believe his story. Thank goodness he is in jail.

I wonder if he blocked the whole thing, and if CW has also "blocked" mentally that he did kill his children. It wouldn't surprise me. He blames SW for the entire situation.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Would SW have fit into the tank ? He knew the site and had access to it. He would know the difficult level involved the number of steps etc . IMO I would move the heavy body first . You know it will be the most tiresome so you knock it out if the way first .

Rigor Mortis would have set in and the body would be completely stiff, not much can be done except bury them, they can't be manoeuvred or carried any distance.
Even if the body could fit, it would be impossible after Rigor, it will become completely stiff within 4 hours.
This would apply to the little ones too and could be one of the factors determining when they died. I'm hoping the crude oil didn't effect this process and forensics can nail the time of death accurately.

If CW didn't know about Rigor Mortis, he does now.


Rigor normally appears within the body around two hours after the deceased has passed away.
Once the contracting of all the body's muscles has taken place this state of Rigor - technically referred to as the Rigid Stage - normally lasts anything from eight to twelve hours after which time the body is completely stiff; this fixed state lasts for up to another eighteen hours.
Contrary to common perception the process of Rigor Mortis actually does reverse and the body returns to a flaccid state; the muscles losing their tightness in the reverse of how they gained it: i.e.: those larger muscles that contracted last will lose their stiffness first and return to their pre-Rigor condition.

Rigor Mortis is a good means of indicating time of death as is normally visible within the first thirty-six to forty-eight hours after death; after which it leaves the body.

Rigor Mortis and Lividity

 

[nwmouse]

Yeah, some of his closest friends referred to him as "Shy Chris." I think it may be more than shyness. A sort of inability to relate. Maybe a kind of social anxiety disorder, perhaps? But it doesn't lend itself to garnering the jury's (or public's) sympathy. It just comes across as weird and out of touch.

Do you mean like being on the autism spectrum?

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks for the clarification.
What I can say is based on SW public Facebook page:
SW and CW went on a Thrive business trip to San Diego from June 22 ~ June 26th, 2018.
It appears SW and CW landed back in CO June 26th, 2018 and 12 hours later CW and SW flew with their daughters to NC.
SW was still posting photos of CW and herself together as a couple on June 24th and June 25th, 2018.
By all accounts, the photos SW posted of CW and herself looked relaxed and happy.
Not sure what happened after that point in time.

I don't use FB but there's a good number of photos on SW Instagram and quick captions that I found easier to scroll. I don't have the link but it's probably easy to find. I think it was also current but don't recall for sure. Update: last post 8/1/18 from NC -- excited about returning home on 8/7, Scottsdale 8/10-12, and baby 3 gender reveal party...

 

[nwmouse]

This is so common among people in prison. Long, dramatic stories, about how it is "someone's fault" that they are in prison. The flawed criminal thinking is absolutely magical.

I find Jeffrey McDonald to be particularly interesting, as he continues to this day, to strenuously deny that he is guilty. He is as innocent as a lamb.

The fact that a Green Beret had a few scratches, an almost surgical procedure, punctured lung, compared with the slaughterhouse of death his wife and children, violently "overkilled". And people still believe his story. Thank goodness he is in jail.

I wonder if he blocked the whole thing, and if CW has also "blocked" mentally that he did kill his children. It wouldn't surprise me. He blames SW for the entire situation.

The Jeffrey MacDonald case is interesting as he's in complete denial. It has similarities to the Michael Peterson (Stairway Killer) case in that they both vociferously deny any wrongdoing and insist they're innocent even though the forensics show otherwise. It will be interesting to see if CW will plead guilty to the children's' murder or if he'll continue to blame SW??? Adding a MOO.

 

[gitana1]

Yeah. The jail leak was likely to make Watts sound sympathetic, which would deflect slightly from the reported leaks from LE, in regard to the affairs.

Exactly

 

[Shekkiec]

Do you mean like being on the autism spectrum?

I wondered about that

 

[Charlot123]

Why do you think that is the approach of the PD at all?

I've said this before, and I'll elaborate: CW's "confession" will allow his PDs to sleep at night.

A criminal defense attorney's job is to zealously defend the client and to make sure the client's constitutional rights are not infringed.

IF a criminal defense attorney thinks the client is actually innocent, then defense attorney has the weight of the world on his/her shoulders. In a (potential) death penalty hey believe that the fate of the client's life is in their hands. That is a huge burden to bear. If defendant is found guilty, then the attorney will feel a residual sense of guilt and wonder what they could have done differently to vindicate the client.

Well, from history, capital punishment takes years, with multiple appeals, and in a way, costs the taxpayers more in attorney costs. How many years did Ted Bundy live behind bars? Nine years. Enough to write a book and father a child. Scott Peterson is still on the death row and case is on appeal again. And then, in some states, capital punishment is legally used, but there is moratorium that effectively blocks it.

So in many ways, the fate of the client is not in the defense attorney's hands.