CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[Harmony 2]

Good morning! The thread is now open for posting...


link for graphic

 

[Inthedetails]

I get that Bill about her portraying an image in favor of the brand but in reference to personal posts about her children and her personal life, I don't see SW being duplicitous.

Like others have already said, SW's posts were personal, but they also marketing pieces. She's known to be a good salesperson. And it's an effective sales tactic to "keep 'em coming back." Even if she knew the gender before revealing it, I don't think it's duplicitous as much as it's a good story to keep viewers to tune in again to see what happens.

She was good at what she did.

jmo

 

[mtnlites]

Like others have already said, SW's posts were personal, but they also marketing pieces. She's known to be a good salesperson. And it's an effective sales tactic to "keep 'em coming back." Even if she knew the gender before revealing it, I don't think it's duplicitous as much as it's a good story to keep viewers to tune in again to see what happens.

She was good at what she did.

jmo

Since I use my FB profile for my business, I more or less created a "character." I mean, it's still me and I don't lie, but it's definitely a rosier and more interesting version of my life. So I get it.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

In all seriousness though, your scenario isn’t a crazy one, atleast in terms of the defense trying it. I still think they stick with his original one, but yours is in play.

Just using your post as a jumping-off point to ask a broader question...

Question for the lawyers/anyone with legal knowledge: I've been wondering about the ethics of the defence strategy. I fully understand that the public defenders are obliged to mount a vigorous defence for their client and protect his rights throughout the process. But surely that obligation doesn't extend to them *knowingly* falsely accusing a murder victim just to propose a scenario in which their client looks less guilty - IF they know this not to be true? Accepting that they may currently believe CW's story is at least possible if not plausible, if evidence later shows them that CW almost certainly killed his whole family, can they ethically persist in pointing the finger at SW, knowing it to be nonsense?

 

[NanZDrew]

They could try to say that.

But I think the state is going to use that drop off in family pics to say that SW was figuring out that her husband was cheating. And she was pulling back and trying to figure out what to do next.

I think one could also surmise that she was enjoying real time with her family that she did not get to see very often, and when she returned home, she was busy getting caught up from being away and was also preparing for the trip.

Often, SM is a comfort place or an escape place where you can feel affirmation.

 

[gitana1]

All of that is completely nullified by his dumping of his clean little girls in filthy crude oil.

And his stoic, dry-eyed, well rested behavior the very next day.

 

[Nikynoo]

They knew he left for his job just 3 hours after after SW was last seen alive.

So they knew the bodies were probably at his work, somewhere, or very close by. And they had worked with his bosses first thing, by checking his alibi.

Did he show up for work that morning? What time, and where did he go? That's all they needed to know where to send the drones.

Her apple watch maybe?

 

[evilgenuis1]

Just a thought about CW's alleged, possible use of drugs prior to the murder! Since marijuana use is legal in Colorado, how do companies deal with drug usage in company policies now? I mean, when I worked, the use of drugs was a big no-no and there was a policy in place to allow for drug testing if you were suspected using! Just wondering now with marijuana usage being legal in at least 9 states, how it is being dealt with in the workplace?

 

[Nikynoo]

@Seattle1 and @NanZDrew - do you know what grade/type of crude oil was in the tanks at CERVI?

 

[gitana1]

I am wondering if he was doing some drugs. Someone earlier mentioned steroids and noted the thickened brow and jawline jutting out. I know that when I look at earlier pictures of he and Shanann and compare to the current pictures, there is a dramatic difference in his facial appearance. I'm wondering if he wasn't doing some stimulants (real stuff) to help lose weight. In the picture below, his face is gaunt, and he makes me think of some of the pictures you see of Satan with that pointy chin. He is just ugly. ugly here.

Thrive has high levels of caffeine. But he was purportedly running a lot. His face looked different because he lost weight.

I don't see evidence of steroids. I've dealt with two opposing parties (one I'm still dealing with) who have abused steroids. It's pretty intense. I don't think they suddenly erupt in murderous rage. It's more like they have a succession of ever increasing blow ups and crazy behavior.

Hidden needles everywhere. Concurrent drug and alcohol use. Apparently they're in physical pain a lot so it's a vicious cycle.

Also, steroid abuse is a thing with athletes and competitive lifters and fighters. CW doesn't appear to have been either.

 

[dgfred]

Yes. The Godforsaken area and the oil tanks were his final FU to Shanann and the girls. It really illustrates to me the contempt he had been feeling for them. When he talked to reporters ,we now know why he was smirking- he thought no one would ever look out there.
The death penalty was made for someone evil like him.

Everybody keeps going on about the tanks. Everything he did was horrible.
He couldn't take then anywhere else IMO. Everywhere he went was going to be known that day.

Putting the bodies in bags and disposing of them was going to be horrible any way you/I look at it.
Would putting them in a shallow grave too be (I don't know what word to use)... better?
Burning? Every way is absolutely evil considering they were his children/wife.
I don't really get the significance of the tanks but I understand the anger.
Panicked, nowhere to turn, nowhere to go, no believable story, NO right to do what he did.

 

[Nikynoo]

I think he killed them all, and I don't think the main reason was his freedom, or even disliking his wife. I think the main reason was the financial situation. Whether his wife was thinking of the separation, or he was thinking of the same, with three kids and the family time potentially not divided 50/50 + a new kid on the way, he simply did not want to pay alimony/child support, or thought of new bills to accrue.

They were in dire straights, financially. Now, SW does not come across as an unreasonable person. But I am thinking that medical bills could be the reason for being in debt. New family, two young kids, SW's lupus, possibly, new pregnancy in the context of lupus after two high-risk pregnancies... This could add to the financial burden, and in the divorce, he probably would end up paying more.

To me it seems like the most plausible reason, if of course there could be any.

How do we know what their present financial situation was? The bankruptcy was discharged almost three years ago, CW had a well paying job as well as selling Thrive and the Verified Insider stated here that SW was doing very well selling Thrive. There is, of course, the court action for the HCA fees, but we do not know whether CW and SW intended to fight this or whether they did not pay for any other reason.

 

[gitana1]

I absolutely believe this to be a possibility. Because nothing else makes sense to me.


I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone, just had not seen much speculation on CW claims and my mind likes to entertain all possibilities.

These are very valid points and I have certainly considered both of these. There are many legal and illegal substances that can impact human behavior. If there was a known history of abuse, control , it would make more "sense." But, I haven't seen reports of this and SW seemed to be the "leader" in the relationship while CW was the follower (according the videos I watched IMO, but these are a "selective" view of their reality, too). Some kind of psychosis (no matter what the cause) is the only reason that allows me some kind of understanding.
It's possible that CW is just a monster? Absolutely. . The sloppiness of the "cover up" and choice of burial sites just makes me think that he was psychotic or he was not nearly as bright as some people claimed was.

He fits the pattern of family annihilators. Many are considered great husbands and fathers prior to the murders, have no criminal histories, mental health diagnoses or domestic violence incidents (that were reported) prior to the murders.

His sloppiness can easily be attributed to the fact that his wife's plane was super late. Hours late. I'm betting he planned to have a lot more time to stage the scene and dispose of all the bodies. The late flight could've blown that.

He shows zero signs of psychosis the very next day when he gives calm and rational interviews to the media. Neither the friend Nichole who first encountered him the day he killed his family, nor the family he stayed with a couple days later and who he interacted with intently, immediately following the "disappearances", reported any psychotic behavior.

We saw no incoherency. No nonsense words. Evidence of delusions. Agitation. His eyes looked clear and calm.

I've never heard of a psychotic episode that comes and goes with no evidence before (he was at a barbecue with his kids on Sunday and he was reported to be acting normally), nor after.

Finally, none of these murderers are ever as bright as they think they are. Most always get caught and convicted. And yet there's always the next confident man or woman who thinks they can get away with it.

 

[gitana1]

He seems like a cross between Scott Peterson and Ross Harris. And that's not a compliment.

Everyone said Ross was a such a good father. And people liked him a lot, thought he was a real nice guy.

Then his secret dark side was revealed. Lots of random hook ups, and sexting, and hookers and sex with a minor.

And much like CW, Ross initially garnered suspicion because he acted so odd after the tragic death of his child. Made small talk with the cop on the way to the station, acted calm during the interview.

Walked around on the phone and refused to get off it when asked, while a perfect stranger -IIRC- tried to do CPR on his son's corpse which was in almost full rigor at the time.

 

[Nikynoo]

Everybody keeps going on about the tanks. Everything he did was horrible.
He couldn't take then anywhere else IMO. Everywhere he went was going to be known that day.

Putting the bodies in bags and disposing of them was going to be horrible any way you/I look at it.
Would putting them in a shallow grave too be (I don't know what word to use)... better?
Burning? Every way is absolutely evil considering they were his children/wife.
I don't really get the significance of the tanks but I understand the anger.
Panicked, nowhere to turn, nowhere to go, no believable story, NO right to do what he did.

Initially I was horrified about the tanks, but when I really considered it, I would rather be disposed of in the tank than buried in a grave. For info, my preference when I depart is to be cremated. I wondered whether it was a cultural thing that it was preferable to be buried........

 

[dgfred]

Fascinating to me how these killers go on interviews and such lying like a Persian rug... with zero remorse.
They must enjoy it... because it is one of the stupidest things they could possibly do at that time.
I have known people that enjoy lying... mostly to just get a reaction out of you. Good or bad.
But lying and just putting information/evidence into the public is just plain dumb. Gracious sake.

 

[Jennifer17]

Just a thought about CW's alleged, possible use of drugs prior to the murder! Since marijuana use is legal in Colorado, how do companies deal with drug usage in company policies now? I mean, when I worked, the use of drugs was a big no-no and there was a policy in place to allow for drug testing if you were suspected using! Just wondering now with marijuana usage being legal in at least 9 states, how it is being dealt with in the workplace?

Alcohol is legal too, but you are not allowed to be drunk in the workplace, so it is probably the same thing with pot.

 

[idfinch]

It's really scary to think of how different this might have turned out had fate not intervened a few times.

If SW's plane not been hours late, and had NUA not been such a good friend with sharp instincts, there is a good chance he would have had the time needed to cover his tracks better. I think he killed the girls right after bedtime, before the plane was initially supposed to land. Dispose of the sheets, her purse and phone, keys, hide her body again. I think he was going to go back when he had more time because his original plan was to dump her in a tank and he couldn't get her up there.

I can't bear the thought of those babies in the tanks forever. That video really accentuates just how very remote it is out there. They may never have found any of them. He may not have considered the cadaver dogs or neighbor's cameras, etc. but with more time he might have thought no bodies no crime.

I don't know if he'll make it to trial without committing suicide. 23 hrs a day with no books, no tv, nothing... just staring at walls. Withdrawing from caffeine & heaven knows what supplements or substances. Deflates the arrogance a bit, I'd think.

 

[Jennifer17]

Initially I was horrified about the tanks, but when I really considered it, I would rather be disposed of in the tank than buried in a grave. For info, my preference when I depart is to be cremated. I wondered whether it was a cutural thing that it was preferable to be buried........

What culture would you come from to think that being dumped in oil is preferable to being buried and why would he bury his wife if burying was so objectionable?

 

[dgfred]

I also can't figure out why he didn't do more around the house. Why not have everything at least organized to dispose of? I wonder if he was going to stick with a family kidnapping story originally.
Another thing could be the killing of SW happened a lot closer to the time he needed to leave for work. So no time.
I can't imagine him just sitting around from around 2am (SW home) until leaving for work around 5am. What the heck would he have been doing if he killed her right when she got home?
I am starting to think she crashed on the sofa... and he wiped everyone out closer to 5am... but still pondering.