Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #19

[Jennifer17]

Yessssss. I've made that walk. It's truly frightening. There's not a few people who seem to really hate her and want to blame her. There are a lot. And many appear to be moms. Some of the most vicious ones.

Is it possible to be jealous of a murder victim?

It seems to be wired into some women to hate other women when they are victims. Maybe it is a defence mechanism. I am not phony like her so it will not happen to me?

 

[ray9898]

I think he felt it had to happen that night, because maybe SW told him she was taking the girls to a friends, while he moved out of the home. She wanted a separation while they figured things out.

If she did that, he would not have access anymore, to carry out his plans to get rid of his family.

She had no way of forcing him out of the house.

 

[ray9898]

Maybe he did stop in Hudson but determined that wasn't a good spot so he kept going. He would not be lying to police. They would see he stopped in Hudson. In fact, even better. He stops in Hudson but dumps the bodies elsewhere. He could imagine they would think a disposal of bodies would be at the first stop if anything.

If he knows they have the ability to confirm he stopped at Hudson then he knows they have the same ability to follow the trail straight to the dump location. Even the poorest plan doesn't have holes that big.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I don’t hang onto every word uttered by body language experts or profilers. Mary Ellen O’Toole was the former FBI senior profiler and forensic behavioural expert who gave her opinions in the Mollie Tibbetts case, and she got it completely wrong:

"I think the most likely scenario is that Mollie was at least somewhat familiar with the person that she went with, or the person that she went with was someone that she viewed as non-threatening to her".

Most of what she had to say re CW has already been stated on these threads. If the FBI are looking for new recruits, perhaps they should start their search here.

 

[wyldcynic]

The MacDonald Family was murdered in Fayetteville NC, where Chris Watts grew up and went to High School. I’m kind of location oriented. C.W. wasn’t around when those murders happened, but I’m sure they are legendary around Ft. Bragg and Fayetteville. I’m sure he must have heard about them.

I live about an hour away from Fayetteville and yes, both the MacDonald and the Newsom murders (in Winston Salem) are infamous in these parts. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t aware of them. Fayetteville doesn’t have much to speak of besides military and crime IMO. It’s pretty run down and most people around here don’t speak highly of it. The area SW was from is more of a quaint, tightly knit, very proper Southern area. The kind of place where people sit on front porches with pitchers of sweet tea and say “bless your heart” a lot. I don’t know if that brings any perspective for those regionally unfamiliar.

 

[ray9898]

I don’t hang onto every word uttered by body language experts or profilers. Mary Ellen O’Toole was the former FBI senior profiler and forensic behavioural expert who gave her opinions in the Mollie Tibbetts case, and she got it completely wrong:

"I think the most likely scenario is that Mollie was at least somewhat familiar with the person that she went with, or the person that she went with was someone that she viewed as non-threatening to her".

Most of what she had to say re CW has already been stated on these threads. If the FBI are looking for new recruits, perhaps they should start their search here.

Much of what they say is paid speculation to fill airtime on sensational stories.

 

[JudgeJudi]

He LOVED that 5 weeks of bachelorhood. So it was really a bummer to be home taking care of the girls that weekend. He knew that would be what his future weekends would be like if they separated/divorced. The rest of the time would be him working keep up with the child support.

I think that 5 weeks of bachelorhood was the single thing that sealed the fate of his family. While he'd had affairs before and after Shanann announced her pregnancy, obviously they were all clandestine. While he may have considered leaving from time to time, now he knew what total freedom was like and he loved it.

Why be shackled with a wife and an ever-growing family together with all the burdens associated with being a husband and father. A new baby would mean new stresses, more commitment to the family, less money and less free time for him. I don't think their financial situation was the root cause.

This was all about him and what he wanted, and he was determined to have it. The children were merely collateral damage and not nearly as important as HIS life.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I used the coordinates provided in the warrantless arrest affidavit and typed it into www.gps-coordinates.com and it comes up as Hudson, CO.

Per the warrantless arrest affidavit, when LE questioned CW on Monday when they were first looking into the "disappearance", CW was truthful about where he went at 5:27 on Monday morning. My guess is this was exactly where he was supposed to be for work that morning and he knew the GPS on his truck would back this up.

Now that I'm "getting" this (or I think I am!), JMO, this was all pre-planned, very clever and extremely diabolical. I don't think there was any emotional conversation, or argument. I think SW was attacked by him probably not long after she arrived home. The little girls may have already been killed.

I'm also thinking he planned to have SW's car, keys, purse, cellphone and the girls' medication discovered at the house by LE as this would point to an abduction.

JMO, he really made three mistakes:

1. He didn't realize the neighbor's security cam captured the front of his house and that this would prove that SW and the girls never left the house that day.
2. He misjudged his ability to put SW's body into an oil storage tank, which made him have to dig a hasty, shallow grave to try to hide her body, and he was probably freaking out because of this, and
3. He forgot about the bed sheet

Because of mistakes #2 and #3, Shanann's friend, N's "early" alarm to LE caused huge problems for CW. He wasn't able to go back and do something else with SW's body and collect the bed sheet he left behind. JMO. I also wouldn't be surprised if N also told LE that things were not what they appeared to be with him, and that she suspected he was having an affair, and this may be why LE began to look for an affair. JMO.

JMO, the pillow cases and sheet that were in the kitchen garbage would likely not have been a problem for CW, as that alone, would not point to his involvement. But the drone that flew over where CW had been Monday morning (CERVI319) detected a matching bed sheet and a clandestine grave.

Time will hopefully tell us whether the cadaver dogs played a part in LE knowing Shanann, Bella and Celeste died in the home.

JMO, I don't think this was a rage-fueled fight that resulted in murder. I think it was all planned in advance and that SW never saw what was coming until it was too late.

All JMO.

Excellent post. I agree with all of it.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I am bringing up something as speculation only... I read where SW had been looking at homes in north carolina as if she was thinking of moving back home. Has anyone else read this. I can't remember where I read that.

I'm not aware of any definite sources for this. She did share a link to a family home for sale in Mooresville, North Carolina, on her Facebook page in June, which may have sparked this speculation, but it was an isolated post I think. Presumably she just thought it was a nice house and was sharing it for her NC friends who still lived there. If she talked to family/friends about moving back there, as far as I know it hasn't come out yet.

 

[kebdal23]

I think that 5 weeks of bachelorhood was the single thing that sealed the fate of his family. While he'd had affairs before and after Shanann announced her pregnancy, obviously they were all clandestine. While he may have considered leaving from time to time, now he knew what total freedom was like and he loved it.

Why be shackled with a wife and an ever-growing family together with all the burdens associated with being a husband and father. A new baby would mean new stresses, more commitment to the family, less money and less free time for him. I don't think their financial situation was the root cause.

This was all about him and what he wanted, and he was determined to have it. The children were merely collateral damage and not nearly as important as HIS life.

Honestly, there is a lot of truth to this. My husband and I were separated (non-voluntarily, long story) years ago for 4 weeks. At the end, I was sort of dreading his return because I had gotten used to my new normal. I felt guilty for feeling that way for some time, and had no underlying real reason to feel that way.

 

[wyldcynic]

I think that 5 weeks of bachelorhood was the single thing that sealed the fate of his family. While he'd had affairs before and after Shanann announced her pregnancy, obviously they were all clandestine. While he may have considered leaving from time to time, now he knew what total freedom was like and he loved it.

Why be shackled with a wife and an ever-growing family together with all the burdens associated with being a husband and father. A new baby would mean new stresses, more commitment to the family, less money and less free time for him. I don't think their financial situation was the root cause.

This was all about him and what he wanted, and he was determined to have it. The children were merely collateral damage and not nearly as important as HIS life.




There had been affairs before and after the pregnancy and yet he was the one who said he wanted another child. Why?

I’m of the camp that CW wasn’t entirely onboard with the 3rd pregnancy. When he said he wanted a 3rd kid (if that’s true) we don’t know the context. Maybe he just agreed to it to end a conversation or avoid a fight and didn’t think it would actually happen. Maybe her health issues were at a place where he thought another pregnancy was unlikely. I’m not sure we’ll ever know the truth on that point.

At first I didn’t think too much about the 6-week stint in NC but the more I think about it, it does seem like a really long stretch. Why 6-weeks and not 2 or even 3? Why leave the nice CO weather for the disgusting, muggy, sweltering NC summer, carting around 2 little kids while pregnant? Did CW encourage her to take such a lengthy trip so he could indulge in his affairs? Or was she putting plans into action, testing how her life would feel if she were to leave him and move back with the kids? Nearly a whole summer apart leading into this tragedy...it doesn’t seem innocuous.

 

[wyldcynic]

I'm not aware of any definite sources for this. She did share a link to a family home for sale in Mooresville, North Carolina, on her Facebook page in June, which may have sparked this speculation, but it was an isolated post I think. Presumably she just thought it was a nice house and was sharing it for her NC friends who still lived there. If she talked to family/friends about moving back there, as far as I know it hasn't come out yet.

I think I read a few threads back that she was posting a house her friend was selling to help them get the word out to other NC friends.

 

[kaykay543]

Or she just thought the shirts were funny? I see similar ones around a fair bit right now - seems to be the current trend. I'd be careful reading too much into those things.

We told people we weren't actively trying... But we very much were (temping and tracking and all that jazz).

My SIL is now up to 4 kids even though they really can't afford them (also filed for bankruptcy)... But they wanted a boy so they kept going until they got one.

SW's social media was used to gain business. Not to say that there weren't real views of their lives in there, but she's trying to sell an image. Videos of baby announcements, Santa visits and chasing crying kids around to make them take a pie to the face all get likes and comments. Likes and comments = views and views = potential sales.

I know the"scripted" or not question has come up a few times. I can't speak to thrive or her team, but I'm involved in a different health and wellness MLM (strictly as a discount coach, I don't actively promote anything) and there are scripts provided by both the company and my team. Examples of posts that generate interest, etc. I don't know if SW was following a script, but her posts have the same feel to them as the ones provided in my FB groups.

Some of them may have been scripted. But I have friends on social media that don't sell anything yet do just as she did. They post how happy they are all the time. Constant pictures etc. People posting on her posts what a great life she has etc. Yet I know that they are very unhappy and their life isn't even close to what they post.

I have always found it very sad. To post this alternate life that the person isn't really living; just a sad way to live.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Your thorough post reminded me of something a neighbor said very early in the case: 5:27AM was an uncharacteristic early morning departure for CW. Neighbor would return home around 7AM from working out , and CW truck would still be at home.

This was the next door neighbor BM. She said that she goes to the gym at 5:15 a.m. five days each week and that the truck was "on" (? idling) and that she hadn't noticed him heading out somewhere at that time before.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, at the onset there was problems with the evidence gathering and crime scene. It was 1970 and it was on a military base. However the prosecution was meticulous and amazing. MacDonald has lost every appeal he's filed, including to the Supreme Court. The current one is without merit; claims of unidentified hairs and a Marshal's claim. The hairs were not removed forcibly and ALL houses have stray hairs in them. Marshal Britt has already been proven, with documentation, to be a liar. He claimed a witness, Helena Stoekley told him, while being transported, that she was threatened by the D.A. with prosecution if she said she was at the MacDonald house the night of the murders. Problem is, Marshal Britt was never involved in her transport.

At one time MacDonald and his attorneys swore that DNA evidence would clear him and prove who did it. When the results finally came back it proved who the murderer was; MacDonald!

Because so many of you have mentioned MacDonald, last night I got the audiobook, (Fatal Vision.) Something interesting occurred right at part 1 ch6. The military had not asked much of MacDonald, re his version. For 6 weeks they had been gathering evidence and were on to him. So they invited him in for his first interview, and after Mirandizing him, he says, nah, I don't need an attorney. So he blabs on for about 3-4 hours, contradicting himself, shooting out lead after lead for them to follow. Before this interview he either forgot, or didn't know that each person in his family had a different blood type, A AB B & O. So, it was like breadcrumbs for LE, they could follow the blood all over the house.

But here is how it relates to the Watts case, IMO. The interviews with CW were similar to the cocky attitude that Macdonald showed for so many hours. Guys that are so self deluding that they think they can bluff their way through life.

MacDonald had 2 daughters just a little bit older than the Watts kids. In the interview it was so telling, one just wouldn't quit wetting her bed, but she often got in bed with Mom and Dad and did the wetting there. Which could have been the trigger that night. He goes to bed with his now chubby 5 month pregnant wife, finds his side of the bed wet, and OMG. Also, in the interview he refers to one of them very very passive and girlish, and he says LIKE COLLETE. The other one tomboyish and take control kid. Paraphrased.

Remember when CW was critiquing the girls in his post murder interview, wouldn't eat right, whatever.

No psychologist here, but reading the MacDonald interview, pre-lawyering up, reminded so much of CW interview.

 

[Amandaaa]

I think C.W. may have known about the neighbor’s camera - or, at the very least, I don’t think it really changed anything for him.

The affidavit states that C.W. *said* he backed his truck up around 5:27a - which was confirmed by the neighbor’s camera. If he didn’t know about the camera, wouldn’t he say that he left the house closer to his regular work time?

Also - pretty sure I read somewhere SW comment (at least once) about C.W. going to work at 5a... and didn’t the male AP say something about meeting up with C.W. before and after work?

 

[margarita25]

Good morning,

Coffee and questions;

I've been reading about the tanks and I watched the Cervi tank video. In the hour drive from his house to the tanks, how many tanks and facilities did CW pass? Driving around with a body or bodies in his truck, why wouldn't he stop at the first one that was available? Unless everything was planned out and that particular far location was chosen ahead of time, and maybe prepared.

If he was in a panic, why drive for an hour when closer sites were available?

Why drive for an hour, risking being stopped by police, an accident, etc., when closer sites were available?

Would CW drive for an hour to a specific site unless it was a choice and he knew he could access it and the tanks?

Unless he had previously been to the site, how could he know;

1. He could enter the site AND get to. the tanks?
2. That the tanks weren't empty?
3. He could open the tanks?
4. What tool or tools were needed to. open the tanks?
5.What surveillance (cameras,etc.)
were present?
6. Whether or not other workers or. ranchers were around?

If he was in a panic or it was a random choice, why risk driving so far if other , closer facilities were available. Would he pass several possible sites in the hope the last and furthest one was better? Time was his enemy!

Iirc a few tanks were passed along the way. See great video on YouTube called: “CW: Finding the Oil Tanks”

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think it would be expected that they have his phone, his text and his internet searches. also, with a high-profile case, I would expect you would be on suicide watch.

I think the digital footprint will play a big part in the courtroom. Both sides will be looking for anything to help prove their case. A lot of info can come from social media, texts, photos, videos, smart phone records, e-mails, lap tops, and anything else in electronic format. They can indicate someone’s location, what they have written (posts, etc.), along with the date and time something was communicated. When, where and who photos were taken with will all be helpful when presenting this case. MOO

 

[JudgeJudi]

I don't get why he didn't at least take her purse, the epi pens, etc and dump them along the way.

As he appears to have been short of time, he was probably more concerned with removing the bodies. Perhaps he was going to deal with those items when he returned from work and staged the scene, but then NU upset his little applecart.

 

[molly1255]

Anyone else think that perhaps CW's statement to LE about having asked SW for a separation were said because he wanted his AP to hear that he'd asked SW for a separation?