Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[flourish]

I can offer one example of the type of defense used to defend the indefensible... At the sentencing for my son's father for him fatally injuring my child, his lawyer said, "well, if she'd had an abortion like he told her to..." And he just trailed his sentence off like that. The look on the judge's face.. Not impressed. Didn't honor plea deal--max sentence.

I have no idea what I would do after the fact other than panic.

I remember sitting in the hospital after being told what had happened to my baby, and i thought, "okay so I'm going to need to kill him (dad), but we're in a hospital and there are police here and they'd save him, so I have to wait."

Obviously, I didn't. Just saying that's what my thoughts were. Very weird, almost eerie calm determination.

Eta I was not present when the attack on my child occurred. That may have ended differently.

 

[idfinch]

I’m trying to see all sides because there are many who believe it’s quite possible the story went just as CW said it did.

I’m struggling. Hard. So, I’m hoping that some of the posters who have more of an open mind than I do at the moment can help me get how you (generic you) see this playing out logically?

Scenario: That night, this good, calm, rational man who loved his kids and never lost his temper, never lashed out, who was totally calm, possibly abused and/or dominated by his wife and was actively seeing another woman, asked his wife for a separation and she got very angry and upset.

In the time it took to get water and come back, he sees on the monitor that one daughter is dead and the younger is being actively strangled by this woman he has grown to hate, and he snaps, lashing out at her in a rage.

If he’s this calm nice guy who loves his children, if the resentment towards SW and his marriage was so strong and then on top of this she hurts his kids for revenge, why not lash out at her - punch her, shove her, whatever - then instantly run to Cece and try to save her? Why not call 911 and have her arrested so that baby Nico wouldn’t die too?

Three people and an unborn baby died in the house that night and he’s composed enough that no one hears anything, no screaming or running outside or pleading for help. Then he comes up with a plan to hide all of the bodies, call and text her after she’s dead, shower, shave and lie smiling to the media and the friends he stayed with. How was this the instinctive reaction?

If he was the loving one, where is the grief? The regret? Why not try to save his children? To “protect” the rep of the wife you can’t stand that just brutally took your kids lives away? Neither of them cared enough to save any of the children that night, then?

He kept it together consistently and kept his story as is until he was boxed into a corner, then admitted to the least amount possible.

I sincerely want to try to understand how this feels logical or realistic at all.

 

[SN76]

Buy it and see!

Websleuths is free

 

[MyBelle]

....you must acquit.

That's true isn't it?

 

[MassGuy]

YES. That's one of my biggest problems with his story. If he walked in on his wife strangling those babies, and then he attacked her, and killed her, he would want the evidence to show that. And it would.

If he called 911, and they sent detectives right over, there would be evidence of her crimes. The time of deaths of all 3 would be almost the same. SW would have evidence upon her, and the girls would have touch DNA from MOM on their little necks.


So it makes no sense, in my opinion, that he throws all of that exonerating evidence away, in the oil and under the dirt. Let alone the question of him even being able to do what he did. To dispose of his babies like that if she was the killer? I don't get that at all.

Exactly. Let’s travel to fantasyland for a second, where C.W.’s story is true. Even then, he’s the most selfish man in existence, as instead of trying to save his kids, he tried to save himself from prison.

If it were my kids, police or paramedics would have to rip me off of them so they could take over performing CPR.

In this case, he just decided “Oh, they’re dead. I guess I’ll just dump them in oil and go about my day.” That makes perfect sense to me!

 

[Bill Carson]

I'm very sorry for your loss, Flourish.

 

[flourish]

I’m trying to see all sides because there are many who believe it’s quite possible the story went just as CW said it did.

I’m struggling. Hard. So, I’m hoping that some of the posters who have more of an open mind than I do at the moment can help me get how you (generic you) see this playing out logically?

Scenario: That night, this good, calm, rational man who loved his kids and never lost his temper, never lashed out, who was totally calm, possibly abused and/or dominated by his wife and was actively seeing another woman, asked his wife for a separation and she got very angry and upset.

In the time it took to get water and come back, he sees on the monitor that one daughter is dead and the younger is being actively strangled by this woman he has grown to hate, and he snaps, lashing out at her in a rage.

If he’s this calm nice guy who loves his children, if the resentment towards SW and his marriage was so strong and then on top of this she hurts his kids for revenge, why not lash out at her - punch her, shove her, whatever - then instantly run to Cece and try to save her? Why not call 911 and have her arrested so that baby Nico wouldn’t die too?

Three people and an unborn baby died in the house that night and he’s composed enough that no one hears anything, no screaming or running outside or pleading for help. Then he comes up with a plan to hide all of the bodies, call and text her after she’s dead, shower, shave and lie smiling to the media and the friends he stayed with. How was this the instinctive reaction?

If he was the loving one, where is the grief? The regret? Why not try to save his children? To “protect” the rep of the wife you can’t stand that just brutally took your kids lives away? Neither of them cared enough to save any of the children that night, then?

He kept it together consistently and kept his story as is until he was boxed into a corner, then admitted to the least amount possible.

I sincerely want to try to understand how this feels logical or realistic at all.

Did he say he just went for water? I didn't think he says what he did just that he went downstairs for an inspection amount of time but briefly?

 

[katydid23]

....you must acquit.

but if they do fit, he can eat chitttt

 

[Jennifer17]

Did he say he just went for water? I didn't think he says what he did just that he went downstairs for an inspection amount of time but briefly?

He said he stepped out of the room for a moment IIRC. In that moment she strangled one child to death and was in the process of strangling the other, so he runs in and strangles her. Unbelievable.

 

[Lucyray]

I'm wondering.. Has CW declared that he doesn't want to give his prints, hand photos, etc? I'm confused, for I thought I read (quite a ways back) that he and his defense wanted d n a testing of children's necks. That allows me to maybe believe his claim that he did not kill his children. (Maybe.) What would be the difference? If he didn't strangle his children, his prints won't charge him. Other things will..other actions, I mean.

And another thing bothering me..what would a (believable) timeline look like? He does all of these horrid deeds at 2:00 in the morning, showers and gets ready for work, half-bakes the house, (just a phrase, not literal,) loads up the family and heads out less than four hours later? Makes a visit to the oil tank, digs a hole for his deceased wife, heads to work and 'punches in'. (I doubt he actually punches in..just a figure of speech.). And on top of this, it's all pre planned? My naiive mind just cannot grasp this. There just has to be so much more to this story, from both perspectives..that of CW, and that of SW. This is so disheartening. Moo. Moo. Moo!

 

[BingoBongo]

I can offer one example of the type of defense used to defend the indefensible... At the sentencing for my son's father for him fatally injuring my child, his lawyer said, "well, if she'd had an abortion like he told her to..." And he just trailed his sentence off like that. The look on the judge's face.. Not impressed. Didn't honor plea deal--max sentence.




I remember sitting in the hospital after being told what had happened to my baby, and i thought, "okay so I'm going to need to kill him (dad), but we're in a hospital and there are police here and they'd save him, so I have to wait."

Obviously, I didn't. Just saying that's what my thoughts were. Very weird, almost eerie calm determination.

Eta I was not present when three attack on my child occurred. That may have ended differently.

Major :-( here.

 

[flourish]

Major :-( here.

I know sorry it is what it is

 

[katydid23]

BBM
True, but...the District Attorney's duty is not to obtain convictions but to see that justice is done.

Yes. Good point. I do think though that they have already done their homework, collected a lot of evidence and are pretty convinced that he is the killer.

I think they are looking for Justice when they demand his palm prints.

 

[Jennifer17]

I'm wondering.. Has CW declared that he doesn't want to give his prints, hand photos, etc? I'm confused, for I thought I read (quite a ways back) that he and his defense wanted d n a testing of children's necks. That allows me to maybe believe his claim that he did not kill his children. (Maybe.) What would be the difference? If he didn't strangle his children, his prints won't charge him. Other things will..other actions, I mean.

And another thing bothering me..what would a (believable) timeline look like? He does all of these horrid deeds at 2:00 in the morning, showers and gets ready for work, half-bakes the house, (just a phrase, not literal,) loads up the family and heads out less than four hours later? Makes a visit to the oil tank, digs a hole for his deceased wife, heads to work and 'punches in'. (I doubt he actually punches in..just a figure of speech.). And on top of this, it's all pre planned? My naiive mind just cannot grasp this. There just has to be so much more to this story, from both perspectives..that of CW, and that of SW. This is so disheartening. Moo. Moo. Moo!

BBM. CW may not have requested it, his defence team may have come up with that on their own, because once he had said that SW strangled the girls, he could not back down from that.

 

[Kensie]

Next we are going to hear that hormones caused SW to kill her children. I honestly do no think she had anything to do with the deaths of her babies. She was pregnant and had just returned from a trip with a delayed flight. Would she have enough energy to murder her babies? To me, I doubt it. Time will tell.

 

[Bill Carson]

I appreciate your explanation. Although, I had to read it a couple times to comprehend it and the first time it reminded me of who's on first. LOL

To give you a sense of how this works, a friend of mine who is a board certified criminal defense lawyer in Texas, posted the following about the Texas Wrong Apartment Murder case. In Texas, where the crime occured, one defense that will be applied in that case is Mistake of Fact, and it is treated not as an affirmative defense, but as a regular defense, or "exception," which means the State must disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Well, let me let my friend explain....

• Here's a hot legal opinion in the Wrong Apartment Dallas Police Shooting case: She will not be convicted of murder or manslaughter, and she might not be convicted of anything. This may very well be an incredibly tragic accident but no crime.
  • But the Dallas DA seems hell bent on pursing the case. She's already thrown the Texas Rangers under the bus for arresting the off duty officer "only" for manslaughter and implied she'll get the grand jury to indict her for murder. Here's why she might technically be correct on how to charge the case, but will still lose . . . .
  • Murder is the intentional killing of another. True, that's what the off duty officer did. But there are defenses to murder and she has a fantastic one of defense of "mistake of fact" that she thought she was in her apartment and feared for her life. It might be a horrible mistake, but a true and reasonable mistake on her part (all those apartment hallways look alike and she was simply on the wrong floor after 15 hours of work.) Here's the kicker: The State will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt she didn't think she was in the wrong apartment or was not reasonable in thinking that. Good luck with that.
  • If her 911 call even remotely backs up her "mistake" defense, she's home free.
  • One final thought about Manslaughter - that is, reckless killing. It seems to make sense as an appropriate charge at first blush, but it really doesn't. It applies to an unintentional killing which was caused by someone doing something incredibly stupid which he knew could kill someone. (Traveling 80 mph through a school zone at 8:00 a.m. and ignoring the risk.) That's an example of a reckless act. What are the reckless acts in the Dallas case? Going in the wrong apartment? Nope. Going through / opening the door didn't kill the guy. No, she intentionally killed him. It's a difficult distinction to wrap your head around but a critical one. That's why this case is such a mess.
  • The bottom line is this: Why would she kill him other than it was a horrible mistake? Does anyone believe she wasn't mistaken?

Interesting, huh?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

That's true isn't it?

It was for OJ and his dream team.

 

[borndem]

Way to Go,!
Gitana!!
You were great on the live Websleuths
Watts case
broadcast tonight!
I am proud of what you said and how you said it -- our legal source for the discussion tonight, and much more.
Excellent -- You did us proud, as they say.
......​

 

[katydid23]

He said he stepped out of the room for a moment IIRC. In that moment she strangled one child to death and was in the process of strangling the other, so he runs in and strangles her. Unbelievable.

Wait, you forgot something. He stepped out of the room, and then was looking at the baby monitor, and saw that one child was blue in the face, then saw the other was being strangled by mom,....