Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[PommyMommy]

Does anyone know what type of baby monitor it was or at least how good the color is on the newer ones? I've only seen the old ones and the images were never very good. If anyone has one it might be useful to do some kind of experiment. I didn't even think you could see skin tone at all but who knows how much clearer they are now. I don't even remembering them have any color at all. Jmo

I seem to remember that it was identified as a Summer Infant Dual View monitor, but I don't remember which poster told us that, so JMO.

 

[Hatfield]

OK, this case is really bothering me, and there are so many points I want to make, I think I'll just go on an epic rant. Maybe part of this is because I made the horrid mistake of reading some other forums discussing this which is full of CW fan girls (and a few fan boys) but there are things here too that make me sigh deeply.

Here is my list, not limited to but including:

A: For all those who say "I know he killed SW but he wouldn't have killed the children" ...why yes. Yes he would. Yes he did. By his own admission he killed Nico. I don't want to hear "Oh he temporarily forgot there was a Nico." Uhmmmm, has anyone hear ever forgotten they were having a baby, for the length of time it takes to strangle someone? I don't think so. Here is a man who could, at the very least, kill his wife and a tiny innocent baby, and give a clear-eyed, smiling interview afterwards.

B: And of course no way do I think he "only" killed SW and Baby NW. Every single thing points to him killing little CCW and BW. Every. Single. Thing. It makes me nuts that anyone can say "we have to give both possibilities equal consideration." Uhmmm why would we give a very sensible theory and a very nonsensical theory the same consideration? What about space aliens? That can be a theory. Do we give it equal time? Maybe the family dog did it...then SW and CW had an emotional discussion regarding the proper punishment for the family dog, so he had to kill her (and Nico) for that. Be sure and give that equal time to the other theories. No, let's use our brains and common sense , and maybe Occam's Razor. And maybe even trust that the LE has a few more bits of evidence than we do, and that the evidence was taken into consideration when deciding what charges to bring against CW.

C: And finally, what the actual heck , concerning people who feel that some of SW's less likable qualities should mitigate the crime of murdering her? Yes, I've seen the videos when she seems a little snarky or condescending. I've seen clips of her seemingly ignoring the girls' needs while making a video, or of encouraging less than stellar behavior.
( I actually know someone IRL who looks and acts so much like SW it is spooky. She is into MLM and has three children and some people love her, and others...well, she gets on their nerves.)
And my answer to that is "So?" Does any man or woman (and yes I would feel the same if genders were reversed) have the right to take a human life, because that human is imperfect? Seriously? If SW was a bank-robbing, tax-evading, kleptomaniac with a mean attitude and a smart mouth, does that warrant the death penalty?
Ask yourself....if your son or daughter talked smack about their spouse, or spent a lot of money, or was caught up in MLM....and their spouse became fed-up with it all, and murdered them, would you say "Well, i won't excuse it, but it is certainly understandable." Of course not! There is no excuse! SW is someone's daughter...someone's sister...and was someone's mother (THREE someones). It is not understandable that she was killed, any more than it would be if you or if I were killed, regardless of our annoying behaviors and human foibles.
A very important part of adulting is being able to control our reactions, and to walk away from potentially combustible situations.

And a bonus thought/question.
What is it about certain women who want to come to the defense of every cheating, lying, violent slimy man out there, who has good teeth or muscles or any iota of good looks? As a fellow member of the female gender, just why?? What is lacking in you, that you had rather align yourself with a man like that, than with his wife, with whatever issues she may have? Would you be as forgiving of YOUR husband, if he was cheating and lying and killed (at the very least) YOUR unborn baby? Just something to think about.

Great Post and spot on!!!

And thank you for sharing it and sharing what many of us feel.

I cant answer the last question as that has always perplexed me too. Its like clockwork that the more horrific the crime there will always be some that want to side with them. Especially the guilty verdict ones who are in prison with death sentences or life sentences. Those are the ones that really perplex me. I think even Jodi Arias is getting offers of marriage now while she is in prison. For those that want to marry convicted murderers in prison, maybe they want attention. Maybe they have self esteem issues. Maybe they are just a little crazy themselves. I've quit trying to figure it out and now I just expect them to come out of the woodwork and I try to ignore them. LOL

 

[Mosaic]

Yes, I saw the bit about the sheet and pillowcases in the trash can, but we don't know were that sheet came from because we now have one on the floor next to the bed, one in the trash can and one in the oil field!

which matched the pattern on the one found on the oil field.

 

[ammers]

First post here. I’ve been a WS fan and lurker since the Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias trials. I think my old user account was deleted due to inactivity since I rarely ever posted then and quit coming here after those trials ended. I had to sign up for an account again when I started following this case.

Anyway, I wanted to jump in and introduce myself and say hello. I’ve been following this case here at WS for weeks now and I’m mostly caught up on all the threads but this one. I’ve read all the evidence and proposed theories. I’ve really enjoyed everyone’s perspective and keen thinking. Although I thoroughly disagree with some posters! FWIW, I solidly believe 2 things: 1. There is still A LOT we do not know that will come out at trial that will surely surprise us all, and 2. With what we do known (and what we can suspect) it is safe to say Chris Watts murdered his entire family, disposed of their bodies in a depraved and disgusting manner, and then continued to lie in order to make it appear he was innocent. So, you can count me in that camp.

I can’t say anything that hasn’t already been stated about the horror and sadness of this case.

Thanks for reading. I'm off to catch up on thread #24 and back to lurking for now...

 

[PommyMommy]

First post here. I’ve been a WS fan and lurker since the Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias trials. I think my old user account was deleted due to inactivity since I rarely ever posted then and quit coming here after those trials ended. I had to sign up for an account again when I started following this case.

Anyway, I wanted to jump in and introduce myself and say hello. I’ve been following this case here at WS for weeks now and I’m mostly caught up on all the threads but this one. I’ve read all the evidence and proposed theories. I’ve really enjoyed everyone’s perspective and keen thinking. Although I thoroughly disagree with some posters! FWIW, I solidly believe 2 things: 1. There is still A LOT we do not know that will come out at trial that will surely surprise us all, and 2. With what we do known (and what we can suspect) it is safe to say Chris Watts murdered his entire family, disposed of their bodies in a depraved and disgusting manner, and then continued to lie in order to make it appear he was innocent. So, you can count me in that camp.

I can’t say anything that hasn’t already been stated about the horror and sadness of this case.

Thanks for reading. I'm off to catch up on thread #24 and back to lurking for now...

Welcome BACK to Websleuths, @ammers ! ​

 

[Misy]

8 seconds

8 seconds is a long time in that situation. I don't anyone would just stand there. The moment I saw that I would instantly go flying into her bedroom.

 

[ReckoningDay]

First post here. I’ve been a WS fan and lurker since the Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias trials. I think my old user account was deleted due to inactivity since I rarely ever posted then and quit coming here after those trials ended. I had to sign up for an account again when I started following this case.

Anyway, I wanted to jump in and introduce myself and say hello. I’ve been following this case here at WS for weeks now and I’m mostly caught up on all the threads but this one. I’ve read all the evidence and proposed theories. I’ve really enjoyed everyone’s perspective and keen thinking. Although I thoroughly disagree with some posters! FWIW, I solidly believe 2 things: 1. There is still A LOT we do not know that will come out at trial that will surely surprise us all, and 2. With what we do known (and what we can suspect) it is safe to say Chris Watts murdered his entire family, disposed of their bodies in a depraved and disgusting manner, and then continued to lie in order to make it appear he was innocent. So, you can count me in that camp.

I can’t say anything that hasn’t already been stated about the horror and sadness of this case.

Thanks for reading. I'm off to catch up on thread #24 and back to lurking for now...

Welcome to the chaos! And yes, I think it will be an ugly trial.

 

[MassGuy]

I want to think like you, but I know C.W. was having an affair, and I know there have many instances when a wife found out about an affair, and wanted to hurt him as badly as he hurt her, so she killed their children. It is possible that SW murdered those children. I think it’s possible that discovering CW’s affair could have destroyed everything she believed in, everything she worked so hard for. CW’s story seems highly unlikely, but because there’s been no evidence otherwise, I just don’t know for certain who killed them. I do think it’s going to take a lot more than I have right now to get me to believe she killed them with 100% certainty, though, like a text she sent to C.W. threatening to kill them. That would do it.

To believe his story, you basically have to ignore all precedence. This type of thing simply doesn’t happen.

You have to discount the coverup, the lies, the disturbingly cold demeanor.

You have to believe that he was able to see the color of his child on the baby monitor. You have to ignore that he dumped the bodies of his family because he was more concerned with himself than his loved ones.

You have to ignore the fact that even if his story were to be true, he’d still be selfish on a hideous level.

Shanann didn’t murder her kids, a monster in disguise did.

 

[Seattle1]

And it is my opinion that I still don't know if the tanks contained any oil. I find it unusual for the PD to have to go to court to get the ME to collect evidence that should be routine.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. It's a documented fact that the tanks were "mostly full" of crude oil. There are indeed many unknowns, but why you insist on questioning the facts seems very odd. Do you have a reasonable basis for rejecting the facts?

 

[MassGuy]

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. It's a documented fact that the tanks were "mostly full" of crude oil. There are indeed many unknowns, but why you insist on questioning the facts seems very odd. Do you have a reasonable basis for rejecting the facts?

Because rejecting the facts is the only way to prove a preconceived narrative. If the facts don’t fit, manipulate them so they do.

Of course I’m being sarcastic, and I absolutely agree with you.

 

[PommyMommy]

8 seconds is a long time in that situation. I don't anyone would just stand there. The moment I saw that I would instantly go flying into her bedroom.

I don't believe that story in the first place, but if it was true, he wouldn't have necessarily looked at the monitor at exactly the time the screen changed. He could have seen it when there was 4 (or any other number 1-8) seconds left before it switched to the other room, if that makes sense, but like I said, I think the entire story about the monitor is just another one of his lies. MOO

If you have time and you haven't seen this demonstration by AB, you might give it a listen and see what you think.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=280073522825085

 

[Layla123]

[/QUOTE]Why does he think a cover up is more believable than the truth?[/QUOTE]
This is part of the reason for my uncertainty. There is a possibility that he didn’t call 911 after the murders because he knew he’d just killed SW, and he knew he’d be convicted for her murder, once LE found out, regardless of what happened to the children. She couldn’t have strangled herself. He didn’t want to go to jail. If he made it look like they were all missing, or had gone off to make a new life elsewhere, he could get away with SW’s murder.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't belong to FB but from reading these threads IIRC the FB haters were saying it was none of her business to ring the police. Even her son is being given a hard time. I agree, she's the hero of this case. That was quite a distressing video to watch.

Thats horrible. She took away the opportunity to hide evidence and disrupt the crime scene. I'm sure LE is grateful for that. I'm wondering why the phone was found between the cushions on the couch. I wonder if he hid it there or there was a struggle and it just ended up there. Although it's hard to imagine she would be sitting there. I would think she would have gone straight to bed. It's also hard to believe that he would wake her up at 5:00 am, have a twenty minute "emotional conversation" about getting seperated, on the morning of her first ultrasound, and then leave. Maybe that's why he later changed the time to 4:00, when he spoke to the other officer. It made more sense. Although it still doesn't make sense. It seems he forgot about the ultrasound all together, which indicates to me that they didn't have a chance to talk at all. Also the story of him seeing her strangle the second child, then becoming enraged and putting his hands around her neck to strangle her sounds more controlled than anything else. If he came rushing into the room in a rage, wouldn't her knock her the heck off the child by hitting her as hard as he could, then try to rescue the child? Also how could he possibly know the first child was dead by looking at the monitor? Wouldn't he rush into the room before checking to see if his wife was, perhaps, strangling the other child too? Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Why does he think a cover up is more believable than the truth?[/QUOTE]
This is part of the reason for my uncertainty. There is a possibility that he didn’t call 911 after the murders because he knew he’d just killed SW, and he knew he’d be convicted for her murder, once LE found out, regardless of what happened to the children. She couldn’t have strangled herself. He didn’t want to go to jail. If he made it look like they were all missing, or had gone off to make a new life elsewhere, he could get away with SW’s murder.[/QUOTE]


Yes. But those aren’t the actions of a loving father. You save your kids, or atleast do everything in your power to try. You don’t just say “oh, they’re dead, it’s time to think about me and my future.”

 

[Layla123]

To believe his story, you basically have to ignore all precedence. This type of thing simply doesn’t happen.

You have to discount the coverup, the lies, the disturbingly cold demeanor.

You have to believe that he was able to see the color of his child on the baby monitor. You have to ignore that he dumped the bodies of his family because he was more concerned with himself than his loved ones.

You have to ignore the fact that even if his story were to be true, he’d still be selfish on a hideous level.

Shanann didn’t murder her kids, a monster in disguise did.

Yeah, I know, you’re right, and I am at 99.9% he did it. I just want to see more facts. And do need LE to prove to me that he couldn’t see blue on their exact monitor. I haven’t seen it verified, yet.

 

[Jennifer17]

OK, this case is really bothering me, and there are so many points I want to make, I think I'll just go on an epic rant. Maybe part of this is because I made the horrid mistake of reading some other forums discussing this which is full of CW fan girls (and a few fan boys) but there are things here too that make me sigh deeply.

Here is my list, not limited to but including:

A: For all those who say "I know he killed SW but he wouldn't have killed the children" ...why yes. Yes he would. Yes he did. By his own admission he killed Nico. I don't want to hear "Oh he temporarily forgot there was a Nico." Uhmmmm, has anyone hear ever forgotten they were having a baby, for the length of time it takes to strangle someone? I don't think so. Here is a man who could, at the very least, kill his wife and a tiny innocent baby, and give a clear-eyed, smiling interview afterwards.

B: And of course no way do I think he "only" killed SW and Baby NW. Every single thing points to him killing little CCW and BW. Every. Single. Thing. It makes me nuts that anyone can say "we have to give both possibilities equal consideration." Uhmmm why would we give a very sensible theory and a very nonsensical theory the same consideration? What about space aliens? That can be a theory. Do we give it equal time? Maybe the family dog did it...then SW and CW had an emotional discussion regarding the proper punishment for the family dog, so he had to kill her (and Nico) for that. Be sure and give that equal time to the other theories. No, let's use our brains and common sense , and maybe Occam's Razor. And maybe even trust that the LE has a few more bits of evidence than we do, and that the evidence was taken into consideration when deciding what charges to bring against CW.

C: And finally, what the actual heck , concerning people who feel that some of SW's less likable qualities should mitigate the crime of murdering her? Yes, I've seen the videos when she seems a little snarky or condescending. I've seen clips of her seemingly ignoring the girls' needs while making a video, or of encouraging less than stellar behavior.
( I actually know someone IRL who looks and acts so much like SW it is spooky. She is into MLM and has three children and some people love her, and others...well, she gets on their nerves.)
And my answer to that is "So?" Does any man or woman (and yes I would feel the same if genders were reversed) have the right to take a human life, because that human is imperfect? Seriously? If SW was a bank-robbing, tax-evading, kleptomaniac with a mean attitude and a smart mouth, does that warrant the death penalty?
Ask yourself....if your son or daughter talked smack about their spouse, or spent a lot of money, or was caught up in MLM....and their spouse became fed-up with it all, and murdered them, would you say "Well, i won't excuse it, but it is certainly understandable." Of course not! There is no excuse! SW is someone's daughter...someone's sister...and was someone's mother (THREE someones). It is not understandable that she was killed, any more than it would be if you or if I were killed, regardless of our annoying behaviors and human foibles.
A very important part of adulting is being able to control our reactions, and to walk away from potentially combustible situations.

And a bonus thought/question.
What is it about certain women who want to come to the defense of every cheating, lying, violent slimy man out there, who has good teeth or muscles or any iota of good looks? As a fellow member of the female gender, just why?? What is lacking in you, that you had rather align yourself with a man like that, than with his wife, with whatever issues she may have? Would you be as forgiving of YOUR husband, if he was cheating and lying and killed (at the very least) YOUR unborn baby? Just something to think about.

Well said. I don't get this hatred some women have towards other women and their tolerance to and being overly fair to a cheating, lying man.

 

[Layla123]

[/QUOTE]Yes. But those aren’t the actions of a loving father. You save your kids, or atleast do everything in your power to try. You don’t just say “oh, they’re dead, it’s time to think about me and my future.”[/QUOTE] You’re right, but it’s possible.

 

[MassGuy]

Yeah, I know, you’re right, and I am at 99.9% he did it. I just want to see more facts. And do need LE to prove to me that he couldn’t see blue on their exact monitor. I haven’t seen it verified, yet.

The baby monitor is a minor thing in the scheme of things. I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it because I don’t believe him in general, no matter the truth there. Even if he could see what he claimed, I don’t buy his narrative.

I misread your confidence as to his guilt, I thought you were 50-50 or something.

 

[Layla123]

The baby monitor is a minor thing in the scheme of things. I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it because I don’t believe him in general, no matter the truth there. Even if he could see what he claimed, I don’t buy his narrative.

I misread your confidence as to his guilt, I thought you were 50-50 or something.

No, not 50/50, 99.9z, but hoping the prosecution’s evidence is strong enough to rule out any other possibility.

 

[MsBetsy]

See, I think there are many actual facts! Far more than what we have available in most cases. For a great list of those facts, see the list by @gitana1 pinned to the top of this thread.

There are actually many facts, as well as observations and behavior to go on. In the Mollie Tibbetts case, there wasn't much evidence at all. And that case is still going strong. LE looks very closely to behavior, mannerisms, events leading up to the crime, and past events. Of course we are not LE, but we can look at all these things and make reasonable assumptions based on facts as well as human behavior. That's what WS is for! Jmo