Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[Hatfield]

I want to think like you, but I know C.W. was having an affair, and I know there have many instances when a wife found out about an affair, and wanted to hurt him as badly as he hurt her, so she killed their children. It is possible that SW murdered those children. I think it’s possible that discovering CW’s affair could have destroyed everything she believed in, everything she worked so hard for. CW’s story seems highly unlikely, but because there’s been no evidence otherwise, I just don’t know for certain who killed them. I do think it’s going to take a lot more than I have right now to get me to believe she killed them with 100% certainty, though, like a text she sent to C.W. threatening to kill them. That would do it.

JMO
The main trouble with his excuse and defense strategy is it means that all the while she was killing the first child he was totally ignoring it. It means he conveniently let her strangle and kill the first child while he sat back and watched or he will claim he was taking a s*** or any other number of excuses.

Then on top of that it means while she was strangling and killing the 2nd child he conveniently waited till she was done with all the strangling and making sure the child was dead before he came to the murderous rescue of his own.

Strangulation resulting in death can take a very long time. Much longer than most people realize. Especially if the victim is struggling and squirming which often happens and the perp has to start over after losing their grip.

From researching this it is hard to find answers but generally this sounds about right to me from this link.

"State v. Carter,
451 S.E.2d 157 (1994), [where expert testified manual strangulation would have taken four minutes for death to occur];

State v. Bingham,
719 P.2d 109 (1986) [three to five minutes]; and

People v. Rushing
, case no. SCD 114890 (1986), [court transcript where
Deputy District Attorney Dan Goldstein elic
ited the following expert testimony from Dr.
Christopher Swalwell: “The minimum amount of time to strangle somebody is somewhere around a minute to two for them to die, but obviously it could be longer.”

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/strangulation_article.pdf

So even if we take the shorter time frame of couple minutes each, it means he would be somewhere else in the house totally ignoring what she was doing. I dont buy it one minute because this was right after she got home and most couples would be communicating with each other right after a long trip.

 

[BeanieBod]

I hear you. I am tired of trying to catch up and wading through post after post of wanna-be moderators telling us how we should keep our minds open, post this, don’t post that…ad nauseum. Not only is it ridiculous, but it is against Websleuth’s TOS to tell other members how to post or attempt to moderate the thread.
...snipped by me...

AMEN

 

[MassGuy]

No, not 50/50, 99.9z, but hoping the prosecution’s evidence is strong enough to rule out any other possibility.

I’m more than confident that it will be. They’ll have digital communications, witness statements (AP’s), and hopefully, case clinching physical evidence. The circumstancial evidence is damning right now, I can’t imagine this case not being much better once we know more.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yeah, I know, you’re right, and I am at 99.9% he did it. I just want to see more facts. And do need LE to prove to me that he couldn’t see blue on their exact monitor. I haven’t seen it verified, yet.

I think even if his perception was that she looked blue, and was spread out on the bed, most wouldn't just assume the child is dead. Wouldn't you rush in to check the child to determine whether or not it is true? Or would you accept it, then focus your attention on checking the other child, to see if maybe she looks blue too? Why would one even think if one child is motionless or appears dead that maybe the other child is in trouble too? It just doesn't make sense. Jmo

 

[Seattle1]

I have been reviewing early posts and the media thread, but can't find information regarding how NUA knew SW missed her doctor's appointment. Does anyone know? TIA

It's my opinion that SW Mum shared this knowledge with police and NUA. Last anybody heard from SW was when she was stuck in AZ airport waiting on delayed departure to Denver Airport (DIA). SW lost contact with the outside world (including her Mum) on Monday at 1:48AM and/or the minute she entered her own home.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Yeah, I know, you’re right, and I am at 99.9% he did it. I just want to see more facts. And do need LE to prove to me that he couldn’t see blue on their exact monitor. I haven’t seen it verified, yet.

Let's say for sake of argument, he sees Bella sprawled and blue on the baby monitor - a reasonable person wouldn't toggle over to see the baby in the next room or wait for the screen to change, they would run as fast as they could to the child that needed immediate assistance (because she is blue).

 

[MassGuy]

Let's say for sake of argument, he sees Bella sprawled and blue on the baby monitor - a reasonable person wouldn't toggle over to see the baby in the next room or wait for the screen to change, they would run as fast as they could to the child that needed immediate assistance (because she is blue).

True. Absolutely none of his actions, even the ones that he has admitted to, sound reasonable though. Which is obviously the point.

 

[Mosaic]

I think even if his perception was that she looked blue, and was spread out on the bed, most wouldn't just assume the child is dead. Wouldn't you rush in to check the child to determine whether or not it is true? Or would you accept it, then focus your attention on checking the other child, to see if maybe she looks blue too? Why would one even think if one child is motionless or appears dead that maybe the other child is in trouble too? It just doesn't make sense. Jmo

BBM:
My observation goes this way: I've read that the babies suffered from asthma; so, why wouldn't his first thought be "asthma attack" and that's why the baby was blue?
Hard to believe he could see a blue baby on a gray/black n white monitor.

 

[Jennifer17]

Let's say for sake of argument, he sees Bella sprawled and blue on the baby monitor - a reasonable person wouldn't toggle over to see the baby in the next room or wait for the screen to change, they would run as fast as they could to the child that needed immediate assistance (because she is blue).

Dead people are not blue, though. They are deathly pale.

 

[chihuahua]

I am catching up and following always one way or another.
I see no real defense for these murders. I just don't, and I am a very fair-minded person.
Justice for Shan'ann, Celeste, Bella and Nico.
Chi

 

[MassGuy]

Dead people are not blue, though. They are deathly pale.

It is my understanding that many people do initially turn blue, when they are suffering from a lack of oxygen.

You’re right about dead people being pale, I used to work in a nursing home and after death, the patients turned a white color that is almost indescribable.

 

[Seattle1]

?mysterian? is it easy to reprogram the code on those?

Yes -- even I can do it!

 

[MassGuy]

I am catching up and following always one way or another.
I see no real defense for these murders. I just don't, and I am a very fair-minded person.
Justice for Shan'ann, Celeste, Bella and Nico.
Chi

There is a defense, the “Shanann did it” one. But as for a defense that will work? I agree with you.

 

[MsBetsy]

It's my opinion that SW Mum shared this knowledge with police and NUA. Last anybody heard from SW was when she was stuck in AZ airport waiting on delayed departure to Denver Airport (DIA). SW lost contact with the outside world (including her Mum) on Monday at 1:48AM and/or the minute she entered her own home.

If she is the woman who went to the house and called police ( sorry I don't remember her initials but I think that's who you are referring to) she said on the news in a video someone posted yesterday, that she knew about her 10: 00 appt and was concerned because she could not reach SW . She knew she would never miss that appt and went to the house to check on her.

 

[Misy]

I want to think like you, but I know C.W. was having an affair, and I know there have many instances when a wife found out about an affair, and wanted to hurt him as badly as he hurt her, so she killed their children. It is possible that SW murdered those children. I think it’s possible that discovering CW’s affair could have destroyed everything she believed in, everything she worked so hard for. CW’s story seems highly unlikely, but because there’s been no evidence otherwise, I just don’t know for certain who killed them. I do think it’s going to take a lot more than I have right now to get me to believe she killed them with 100% certainty, though, like a text she sent to C.W. threatening to kill them. That would do it.

To think that SW would kill her children (I hate writing that) to get back at CW, or become so despondent and go instantly insane, take it out on the kids instead of taking it out on him, is just unbelievable. It's 2am or later. She's been traveling, tired and not feeling well, yet her reaction to their emotional talk is to kill her kids?? She seems way too independent than that and seems to love and value her kids. CW seemed to love and value his girls too. That's why this whole thing is so confounding to me. And... I just don't get the reaction of her killing the kids. In a separation/divorce isn't the reaction to fight for the kids? Fight for full custody, not eliminate them.

 

[chihuahua]

Dead people are not blue, though. They are deathly pale.

Yes they are pale but depending on the cause of death they are blue for a while. I say this as a former worker with a Medical Examiner's office and all the removals I did while training in mortuary school to be a funeral director.
For instance, I found someone dead of a heroin overdose in January. He had been dead over 24 hours. He was extremely blue, darkish purple. And rigor had not broken yet. ETA he was in a very cold and clean indoor home, so he had not been tampered with in any way. [he was my 1st love just here temporarily]
---that's one of the main reasons I no longer want to be involved in traditional Funerary ventures, only as a celebrant for free---
So I can't say what they would have looked like and I didn't mean to butt in.
You are correct in many cases that they can appear very pale.
From strangulation it would seem the face would be affected and if it went on long enough, the eyes and tongues would protrude.
just my own sad and sickening opinion
Chi

 

[Mrspratcher]

Yeah I don't find the disposal of the bodies the most telling aspect of the case.

But his porch interviews, where he looks well rested and happy -smiling, no signs he had been up all night or crying- well groomed, clean, neat clothes, (so he was able to take a shower, carefully shave and put on clean clothes), no bags under his eyes, no red eyes, no shaking, frowning, grimacing, no crying during the three interviews, laughs a bit, grins, shows off his shirt when asked about it - that's the stuff that gets me.

Because he did all that about 24 hours after he supposedly saw his wife murder his kids. He looked like that and acted like that when he knew his children were dead and knew where their bodies were.

That coupled with his improbable behavior in actively working to conceal the murders from the get go and for at least 36 hours after, and no efforts to save his kids, call 911, try to get them to breathe, not one sound of screaming or crying or wailing in house (that's one helluva silent Greek tragedy that happened in his house), that his super close neighbors could hear, that's all the stuff that much more stunning to me and powerful to me than where he disposed of their bodies or how.

He had the nerve to put on a shirt that SW purchased for him - the day after he murdered her.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This is part of the reason for my uncertainty. There is a possibility that he didn’t call 911 after the murders because he knew he’d just killed SW, and he knew he’d be convicted for her murder, once LE found out, regardless of what happened to the children. She couldn’t have strangled herself. He didn’t want to go to jail. If he made it look like they were all missing, or had gone off to make a new life elsewhere, he could get away with SW’s murder.

If he's heartbroken about the sudden death of his children how could he go on, but he did. If he can disconnect after witnessing the death of his children and killing SW and his unborn child, calmly discarding their bodies and give a pretty convincing number of media interviews, he's capable of anything, imo.
We have no knowledge of what SW is capable of. We've seen snippets of fb home videos and posts and VI character references. But she's dead and he's alive.

SW left CW home alone for 5 weeks, would a controlling partner manage this? What did she hope to achieve by giving him a taste of total freedom for 5 weeks? Then, SW goes on a weekend Thrive function and returns home ready to kill?

Has there ever been a pregnant woman who's killed her children in vengeance against her partner? Not that I'm saying it's impossible, I just think she wouldn't be able to, hormones, lack of focus, tiredness, more tearful than feisty?
I don't where I'm going with this, I'll research later for some statistics.

 

[Jennifer17]

It is my understanding that many people do initially turn blue, when they are suffering from a lack of oxygen.

You’re right about dead people being pale, I used to work in a nursing home and after death, the patients turned a white color that is almost indescribable.

They may have some blue around the mouth while they are alive and lacking oxygen but they do not turn blue enough for someone to see it on a screen after they are dead.

 

[MassGuy]

They may have some blue around the mouth while they are alive and lacking oxygen but they do not turn blue enough for someone to see it on a screen after they are dead.

I certainly agree.