Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

[mtnlites]

In very few cases, but mostly the active ingredient causes drowsiness:
Drowsiness is one of the major side effects of some antihistamines, such as diphenhydramine (Benadryl) and doxylamine succinate (the antihistamine found in Nyquil). And because of their powerful sedating qualities, antihistamines are also the active ingredients found in numerous over-the-counter sleep aids.

It knocks my kids out for hours.

 

[bluesneakers]

Hey there bestie! It is gross. It's the stuff of nightmares. It doesn't prove him guilty of killing the girls. I've wondered if perhaps it was a sorry if symbolic burial in a place he associated with beauty, with all the wild flowers. Like he thought he was protecting then maybe.


Regardless of where, the fact he didn't put the girls with their mom is interesting to me. I think that was very purposeful.

For the millionth time, I'll add my disclaimer, which should be obvious but isn't, that of course Shanann and the girls deserved a proper burial--well, they deserved long lives, but you know what I'm saying. He should have made better choices.

I'm still withholding judgement for the girls' deaths, though, as I need more evidence--I think it's more likely than not that cw killed them all, but I currently have reasonable doubt with the girls. Obviously subject to change with additional facts and evidence.

And many of you know my own child was violently killed, so yeah it's not like I don't understand or deeply appreciate the need to lay loved ones to rest.

I doubt we'll ever really know but I'd really like to know his thought process with the "disposal."

My thinking, subject to change, is he was hoping it would interfere with their autopsies and his “Shanann did it” story couldn’t be disproved. No need to go to the trouble with her body since he was going to admit killing her if it came to that. I think that’s why they weren’t together. Practical reasons, nothing personal. JMO etc.

 

[Gardenista]

In very few cases, but mostly the active ingredient causes drowsiness:
Drowsiness is one of the major side effects of some antihistamines, such as diphenhydramine (Benadryl) and doxylamine succinate (the antihistamine found in Nyquil). And because of their powerful sedating qualities, antihistamines are also the active ingredients found in numerous over-the-counter sleep aids.

Yes, I know--it's diphenhydramine which can also cause excitability. We discussed this at length in one case and many members talked about how it can hype you up.

 

[MassGuy]

Benadryl can cause excitability.

Common Side Effects of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) Drug Center - RxList

I take it every night as a sleep aid. If he did drug the kids (in a premeditated scenario), I think that it’s the likely drug he would have used.

Unfortunately, even if it is found in the toxicology screenings, he may be able to explain it away. That is, unless it’s in amounts that aren’t therapeutic.

 

[Gardenista]

I take it every night as a sleep aid. If he did drug the kids (in a premeditated scenario), I think that it’s the likely drug he would have used.

Unfortunately, even if it is found in the toxicology screenings, he may be able to explain it away. That is, unless it’s in amounts that aren’t therapeutic.

It knocks me out too, but it doesn't do that to everyone.

 

[nwmouse]

Yes, I know--it's diphenhydramine which can also cause excitability. We discussed this at length in one case and many members talked about how it can hype you up.

Mostly its a sleep aid. Perhaps it can cause excitability in certain people, but not the majority.

 

[MsBetsy]

I will try to explain what I mean. The offensive part to me is the fact that the children were murdered. Following death, the soul was no longer present, and would not feel anything. So, i dont understand why an oil tank is more heinous than any other burial location. Am i missing something? As I said, after living around the oil fields for so many years, I dont understand why so many think the oil tank is more heinous than say a shallow grave. But, be clear, I am not trying to justify what happened. Just trying to understand! So much of what I have read is totally baffling! I hesitate to even ask!

Oh, ok. I think I can explain. I think in our culture it is expected to handle a body with respect and care. Even although the soul has left the body, it is still looked at as representing the living person it once was. It is more for the family and loved ones, imo. When an undertaker comes to retrieve a body, the head is covered to maintain the dignity of the person that has died. In the morgue, the body is cleaned meticulously depending on the wishes of that individual, and whether or not there is an open casket, etc. Ashes are spread in places that were special to that person. The way a body is handled is often in a similar manner to if it were living. Especially for members of the armed services, who gave their lives for their country it us a way to honor them. If you think of a body as a "symbol" for the soul that once occupied it, it might be easier to understand. I'm really not sure I know how else to explain it. Hope that helps.

 

[MassGuy]

It knocks me out too, but it doesn't do that to everyone.

No it doesn’t, you’re right. I’ve accidentally taken too much and it has the opposite effect, to include restless leg. In the right dose, in most children, I do think it would knock them out though.

 

[amiless]

If the state's motion to deny public disclosure of the autopsies is granted, I'm assuming we will have to wait until trial to find out COD. Is this common?

 

[Amonet]

IMO people don’t want to believe that SW did it for the same reasons.

Yes, and no? I wouldn't want to believe it of any parent, mother or father.

In this case it has happened. The evidence of the night it happened (what we have available right now) and CWs actions, followed by his words in interviews ... says to me that regardless of whether I want to believe a man murdered his children, regardless that he appeared previously to be a normal loving dad, he appears to be the person responsible for their deaths.

I wouldn't want either of them to do it. I don't see prior actions on display from either of them, with regard to the family life and the care of the children, to suggest they were capable of it.

And yet it did happen.

I would say that the alleged AP who has talked some of CW's sexual tastes could be strongly suggestive if the alleged AP is being truthful and one or more victims died of strangulation. With or without this, the evidence from that night and after suggests CW murdered them all. Going from other cases of male-perp familicide I wouldn't really expect more than a partial confession. I do not see CW's accusation as evidence against Shanann. I haven't heard anything from LE that would suggest Shanann was anything more than victim that night...we have to wait for autopsy results and other forensic evidence.

I don't see anything evidential in a mother/parent being concerned about allergens with a child at risk of anaphylactic reaction from. Was Shanann 'bossy' or was she 'assertive'? Some of these things are in the eye of the beholder, but I don't think either of them is suggestive that she killed the girls. The concern over allergies suggests she's a very protective parent. The evidence of the videos suggests she wants, as her brother has said, she wanted her girls to grow up strong, assertive, confident, but she wasn't throwing them to the wolves to achieve that, she was standing by and ready with a hug when they needed it.

We have cases of murder of children by parents that seem to be preceded by marital/relationship breaks. Generally they seem to occur post-break when the parent is left alone with the children or at the time they have their custody time and they can't face handing the child back, or they want to punish the other parent. It seems fair to say it's rare for child murder to occur at the same time the parent is informed the other partner wants to separate and while the other parent is still in the home.

I don't feel I know right now who wanted to separate, CW or SW, or if they'd discussed this in the past. It's alleged CW had said to friends or family that he'd brought up the subject of separation and Shanann hadn't taken him very seriously. What does that mean, if he was telling the truth to these other people? Was he not showing with actions that his words were serious? Maybe he had dropped hints, and Shanann was starting to think he was serious. Maybe her suspicions of an affair which she mentioned to AT were starting to get stronger and she was feeling that she didn't want to live with suspicion and distrust of her husband and that separation was starting to make more and more sense. We've heard from a friend of SW's mother in NC that Shanann was starting to seriously consider separation and talk about it with her mother. That being the case, why would Shanann snap that night if CW once again brings up the topic of separation? She has a doctor's appointment later that day for her pregnancy...is the separation such a big deal for her at this point in time compared to her concerns for her children, including the one she was growing inside her?

Another thing I wonder is how much thought CW put into the place he took the bodies. He seems to have a lot of thoughts going on about how to not get caught. He takes the bodies to a place that's in his general area of work so that he can show LE his cellphone and the GPS on it and it won't show any suspicious trips, it will just look like he left for work in the morning and went to work as normal. When NUA asks about Shanann at midday, CW has an answer...we're separating and she's probably left me, nothing to worry about, maybe she'll come back and maybe she won't. How long did it take him to come up with these ideas if he just walked in on Shanann murdering the children and he was shocked, heartbroken, and in protection mode (which he fails to display by calling 911 for ambulance and LE to attempt to save any of the children, including Nico). The only protection he displays is a desire to protect himself from being caught.

I don't want to believe CW could do this. I don't see anything in his previous behavior with the children to suggest he could do it. The alleged AP info is intriguing as it might go toward his choice of MOD. But however much I don't want to believe he could do this, whether it happened overnight or took months for him to be able to do it, I see nothing to suggest he did not do this. Surely that has to prevail over my emotive "how could any loving parent do this?".

 

[Lady Justice21]

I will try to explain what I mean. The offensive part to me is the fact that the children were murdered. Following death, the soul was no longer present, and would not feel anything. So, i dont understand why an oil tank is more heinous than any other burial location. Am i missing something? As I said, after living around the oil fields for so many years, I dont understand why so many think the oil tank is more heinous than say a shallow grave. But, be clear, I am not trying to justify what happened. Just trying to understand! So much of what I have read is totally baffling! I hesitate to even ask!

I said the same thing threads ago. Also grew up surrounded by oil/gas and ag. Repugnant yes, more so than a shallow grave, left in the woods, dumped in a corn field, etc no. None are pleasant, this just isn't any more unpleasant to me. Just so you know you're not alone.

 

[BeanieBod]

Thank you and yes. Honestly I never knew her as
A co-owner.

I have to admit that I missed this the first time that I read the court docs.
“defendant Shannan King (a co-owner of DSCSW)”
KEY v. DIRTY SOUTH CUSTOM | No. 5:09-CV-32-D. | 20090604805 | Leagle.com

 

[NuttMegg]

I want to thank you and others who have been diligent in monitoring the site for updated pleadings filed.

This is very interesting. He is trying to prevent the state from be able to collect his palm prints and DNA.

I think he's going to lose that motion. It's a murder case so yeah, there probable cause to collect such evidence.

What's interesting is juxtaposing his objection with all the people in the Innocence Project who are on death row or life in prison BEGGING for their DNA to be tested.

I mean look, tactically, I would probably be filing the same motion. You want to protect the accused's rights as much as possible and not make the state's job easy for them.

But really? How is getting a palm print from someone charged with five counts of first degree murder, when he claims all were strangled, how is that a constitutionally impermissible search because it's "unreasonable."?

And wouldn't Chris himself be chomping at the bit to prove it wasn't his hands on those babies' necks if he was innocent?

These being the same people who tried to get the judge to tell the ME to take DNA from the necks of the girls?

 

[esayer]

Oh yeah CW's old roomie about to talk on AB. Who wants to bet it will be something like:

'CW was so nice I could never imagine that he'd do that!'

 

[mtnlites]

No it doesn’t, you’re right. I’ve accidentally taken too much and it has the opposite effect, to include restless leg. In the right dose, in most children, I do think it would knock them out though.

I've done that as well. In high doses it gives me restless legs, makes me jttery, and as it wears off gives me a painful bout of the munchies. Phenergan has similar chemicals. Those of us with hyperemesis during pregnancy called it the "antihistamine munchies." I weigh 95 pounds and have heen known to toss back 3 bowls of cereal and 2 bagels in one setting.

I take it every night, too. My tolerance is way high now.

 

[MKZoo]

No it doesn’t, you’re right. I’ve accidentally taken too much and it has the opposite effect, to include restless leg. In the right dose, in most children, I do think it would knock them out though.

I have heard parents talk about using it to knock kids out on a flight but warning to test it first in case it makes the child hyper. I do not advocate this! Lol.

I’m guessing the Watts knew how the girls reacted to it. Based on their allergy history, I assume they may have taken it.

 

[katie565]

I will try to explain what I mean. The offensive part to me is the fact that the children were murdered. Following death, the soul was no longer present, and would not feel anything. So, i dont understand why an oil tank is more heinous than any other burial location. Am i missing something? As I said, after living around the oil fields for so many years, I dont understand why so many think the oil tank is more heinous than say a shallow grave. But, be clear, I am not trying to justify what happened. Just trying to understand! So much of what I have read is totally baffling! I hesitate to even ask!

“How we treat the dead is a mark of how we regard the living”

I don’t know where that quote comes from but it is true in every society going back in time. There are rituals and practices which are very important, in my mind, mostly for the survivors. After being involved in and planning many funerals and seeing the expense, family drama, etc, I’ve told my loved ones to throw me in a ditch & go on a nice trip together instead but I know that won’t happen. It won’t happen because they love me and it will be important to THEM to treat my body with care, love, respect and the value they placed on my life. It would also be important to other people to pay their respects. He tried to take that away from their family and friends. That is cruel in and of itself.

I remember my father flushing my first dead goldfish down the toilet. I was hysterically crying - just traumatized. That was because I loved and valued the life of my friend - even though it may have only been a few months. I’ve always buried or cremated every pet I’ve ever had, no matter how small or how short a time I’ve had them. I could never throw them away like trash. I feel like how I treat the vessel that carried them through life, the physical being of those I’ve loved is worthy of a traditional, respectful send off.

 

[Tigerlily75]

And sometimes people have a bad feeling and may even tell one person but they try to convince themselves that everything is okay. Because who can really believe something as horrible as what happened if there weren't threats before?

Case after case we hear of people telling others that if something happens, the husband did it. But deep down they believe it really won't. So they don't go further.

Absolutely. I always had a niggling fear my ex could kill me. I considered it a possibility, but I also didn’t REALLY think it would happen. But I still told friends that if something happened, and if it looks like a suicide, it’s not and he killed me.

Even with that underlying anxiety that it “could” happen, I didn’t pack up my house and my kids lives and move away to somewhere where he couldn’t find me. The fear was still real though.

I can definitely see a conversation where she might have said something like “come looking for me if you don’t hear from me!” and even laughing. But you rationalize it away, you’re just being silly, and calling the police would have been very dramatic based on probably not a whole lot. Hindsight is everything! But she didn’t have hindsight.

 

[SausagePizza]

Let's assume that the case goes to trial if nothing happens to him in jail. He will still be convicted for what he has confessed to already. CW will be spending the rest of his life in prison. Even if the DA does decide to go after capital punishment that would take years also. The last execution in Colorado was on October 13, 1977.

If he can get off on all of these charges it would be a miracle and a failure of the judicial system.

 

[MassGuy]

I have heard parents talk about using it to knock kids out on a flight but warning to test it first in case it makes the child hyper. I do not advocate this! Lol.

I’m guessing the Watts knew how the girls reacted to it. Based on their allergy history, I assume they may have taken it.

Definitely plausible. When I joined the Marines, my parents took my dog. I went home to visit, and was perplexed why she wouldn’t eat some of the treats that I knew she loved. It turned out that my mom was putting Benadryl in her treats, to calm her down when my parents had guests over. So it doesn’t just work in kids!

Of course right now, we don’t know if this was premeditated, or if the kids were drugged at all. I point this out so it doesn’t become “fact.” It is pure speculation.