Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

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I really wonder what Chris' multiple unanswered texts to Shanann - the morning after he killed her - said. If they were just generic like "Hey, you up yet?" Or if they were fake sweet like "Morning beautiful, how are the girls?" Or if they tried to set any kind of stage that she may have walked out or referenced the "emotional conversation."

In watching the tv interviews of Chris' lies, it seemed like he couldn't commit to which approach/story/lie he wanted to take - if they had been "abducted" or if they had a "disagreement" and Shanann had left him. He just kept stammering on about how they "vanished." It was like in the interviews, you could just see him conflicted, trying to latch on to one story or the other, not knowing which one to pick. If he had planned on saying he thought she had left him, now that didn't work because he didn't have time to set the scene to get rid of purses, kid meds, wallet, ID, cell phone, etc. But once he found out about neighbor cameras, he also couldn't now claim she and the girls got picked up and left with anyone. So he just sounded like an idiot stammering about his house the ghost town with a half hearted plea that if someone had them to bring them back. I wonder what his original story was going to be, if LE didn't get involved so fast.

And I wonder what approach he took in his fake multiple text messages he said he sent to Shanann the next day, which would have been sent before he knew he was backed into a wall with his fake stories. Did he try to set a stage in the messages to her? Or if they were just total generic like, "Are you up?" And how his defense attorney will explain any sweet concerned messages to the woman who just you know, strangled his children.
I think the examples you give may be pretty accurate. Nothing too long, just short messages, and maybe a " love you babe" " where are you guys?" And I think you are so right about the interviews. Notice when asked about her family looking for her he says, " I mean, like just let them know, I mean, Colorado, I mean ... can't just drive around and look, I mean," he seems to be searching in his mind and trying to decide what to say. I wonder how important the interviews will be in the trial. I also think it's interesting how he compares Celeste to Shanann. She's called rampage. Always a trouble maker, yelling, and then he says she is just like SW. Is this a subtle way of blaming his wife? Then he says Bella is calm, cautious, the mothering type. "She's more like me." Is he setting things up in his mind? He seems pretty easy to read. Jmo
 
SBM. I agree. There is something in that autopsy that has caused the state to seek the additional analysis of a forensic pathologist. IMO we may need to start stretching now to get a bit more flexible with our thinking. JMO


What's the difference between a medical examiner and a forensic pathologist?
A medical examiner is a medically qualified public officer who investigates deaths that are unusual or suspicious. They can perform an autopsy or order one. ... A forensic pathologist is an MD who performs autopsies for legal purposes during the investigation of a crime.



A medical examiner is a medically qualified public officer who investigates deaths that are unusual or suspicious. They can perform an autopsy or order one. Sometimes the medical examiner is a anatomical pathologist.

A forensic pathologist is an MD who performs autopsies for legal purposes during the investigation of a crime. They determine cause of death by examining and analyzing injuries and they also examine other organs to determine if the death was by natural causes or disease. They choose relevant tissue samples that need to be examined microscopically to either prove or disprove foul play.
He presents his findings to the court during the trial.



Key difference between Forensic Pathologist and Medical Examiner

  • Forensic Pathologists are a kind of Medical Examiner who concentrates on the laboratory tests rather than performing autopsies to examine internal organs.
  • Only MBBS degree is required to become a Medical Examiner but Forensic Pathologists should have a MBBS degree and MD in Forensic Medicine.
Forensic Pathologists can become a Medical Examiner or they can pursue their career in other suitable fields. But such options are not available for a Medical Examiner.



Source: Difference between Forensic Pathologist and Medical Examiner
 
Preliminary results, yes until all other testing is completed.

Here is an example: The Knox County Sheriff's Office says external and internal examinations did not reveal any contributors to the child's death. The medical examiner is still awaiting toxicology tests and pathology results.

Autopsy results so far inconclusive about baby's death at Knox County home daycare
TY so much, will read that now. Very early on, I asked about the size of hand prints (may be even before CW charges were read, hard to remember). Your first post this morning reminded me of it (AB, super glue infusion).
I get that we ALL yet don’t know if bags were used and what was/wasn’t preserved, it’s just curious to me that while Prosc does t yet have the full report to turn over, they also seem to have enough to request palm AND foot prints.
BTW, footprints. Just jumping in here days late and dollars short LOL, CW did seemed to wear flip flops a lot. Perhaps during bagging or dumping process, his foot slipped out of the flip flop, and left a footprint. I know, not too relevant since he admitted to bodies being disposed of by himself. Was just a thought.
 
SBM. I agree. There is something in that autopsy that has caused the state to seek the additional analysis of a forensic pathologist. IMO we may need to start stretching now to get a bit more flexible with our thinking. JMO
It could be that they just want to be sure their evidence is flawless, they don't want any mistakes. No room for other interpretation. The more expert opinion the better. It could be that since the bodies were soaking in oil for several days, they need an expert in that area. All my opinion, of course. Have the lawyers given any reasons?
 
I think the examples you give may be pretty accurate. Nothing too long, just short messages, and maybe a " love you babe" " where are you guys?" And I think you are so right about the interviews. Notice when asked about her family looking for her he says, " I mean, like just let them know, I mean, Colorado, I mean ... can't just drive around and look, I mean," he seems to be searching in his mind and trying to decide what to say. I wonder how important the interviews will be in the trial. I also think it's interesting how he compares Celeste to Shanann. She's called rampage. Always a trouble maker, yelling, and then he says she is just like SW. Is this a subtle way of blaming his wife? Then he says Bella is calm, cautious, the mothering type. "She's more like me." Is he setting things up in his mind? He seems pretty easy to read. Jmo
I've thought since I watched it the first time when it happened that he was setting the stage for multiple purposes. One being that he's framing himself as the better person/parent; two being that he's trying to explain his lack of emotion. My daughter caught it immediately too. My whole family has believed he was responsible since we watched the first interview, and we've seen nothing compelling enough to change our minds.
 
Hi <modsnip - unnecessary to tag the poster being quoted>,
Do we know yet publicly if the home has been released, or perhaps articles within it, to the family?
I know previously posts in this forum suggest that the home might not be “crime scene” released” until during or after trial, which IMO would be a good thing to ensure a fair trial for everyone.
But perhaps articles/items (I.e. family memory albums, toys, etc) for family and friends to have, as long as it doesn’t hinder or help either side?
Genuine question as I’ve only followed a few cases and it spans over a decade and not in tune as most of you more seasoned WS’.

Hello <modsnip - unnecessary to tag the poster being quoted>! Welcome back. I appreciate the kind tone of your posts, whether you are expressing agreement or disagreement. You’ve been missed!
To answer your question, I believe you are correct that the Watts home is currently a crime scene and personal belongings would not be released during an active investigation. MOO
 
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Exactly. In another case here on WS, a woman left her two very young girls in a hot car and they died. She found them and ran them to the neighbors' house begging them for help. It was clear they were dead, but she still tried and the neighbor tried. You don't say "Oh, well. They're dead. Better get them to the oil tanks." It's ridiculous.

Oh how very sad! But like you said, at least she went begging for help for her children. In my opinion, if this case goes to trial, the fact that he didn't even ATTEMPT to save his child is going to be a huge hurdle for the defense to cross.
 
Why didn’t he take them right away?

It's a good question. Those who feel this was likely premeditated but looks sloppy because his plans were derailed by the flight delay, have been challenged by those asking similar questions.

For example, he knew about the camera, and/or he planned to take the bodies out through the garage when he left for work so he wouldn't be seen driving around in the middle of the night the night before his family goes missing, how does a flight delay matter?

These questions have certainly given me pause.

Maybe he wasn't really aware that the camera next door would capture everything coming in or out of the house. Maybe he thought he would have time to kill everyone and then take them out through the back which butts up against a cul de sac and undeveloped property. Or he would have a lot of time to dispose of everything, check the scene carefully, and stage it after killing everyone earlier in the night, and still take them out through the garage on his way to work.

I truly suspect the flight delay has something to do with why the crime scene was sloppy. My feeling is this was likely planned in advance and not a sudden rage attack -although I'm on the fence- and I see a scenario in my mind that makes sense.

I see him obsessively watching the flight trackers or his phone and texting her a lot about the delays. I imagine he either killed the girls in advance and was starting to freak out with the knowledge that he would be expected to take them to school or have them make an appearance in public Monday, or talk with mommy, and he would be expected to get a sitter so what if her flight didn't come in that night? Then what, if the kids were already dead.

Or he had decided that it had to be that night. For whatever reason. Kids weren't dead yet. But he needed that to be the night. Maybe his affair gave him an ultimatum. Maybe he felt due to trips and the beginning of the regular fall season of pre-k (or was she entering kindergarten), and a gender reveal party he would likely be in no mood to endure if he planned to end the baby before he was born, that it had to be then, as someone explained really well here in another post.

So instead of spending time while the flight was delayed, carefully staging the scene, he's panicking. He's checking and re-checking the flight tracker and trying to figure out what to do.

Now time is going to be tight. He won't have time to kill the wife and kids, carefully load them up, dispose of evidence, leave for "work", get rid of the bodies before the sun rises and someone might see him AND stage the scene.

At that point he might have been totally freaking out. Plans to remove her purse and phone and the kid's medicine, or their car seats from the car, etc., might have flown out the window as now he's faced with reality.

He couldn't have had several hours to clean the bedding and put it back on, unlock a window or the back slider, grab several of their things, and have all the bodies loaded and ready to be concealed, and still have time to dump property in remote locations or down other oil drums or in a dumpster somewhere on the way back from work.

But the flight delay and that terribly noisy Nickole who had no right to be concerned and get involved (according to a few posts) blew his plans and ability to stage things.

It's going to be interesting to see how the pans out. Data on phones and computer will be quite interesting.
 
You do realize that a case of this magnitude will have experts try and dispute certain findings in the M.E report.

So of course they want to take time to dot i's and cross t's before passing the final report along to the state prosecutors. Jmo.
Yes, I always thought that was standard procedure. I've seen it in so many other cases. Lots of experts. Jmo
 
TY so much, will read that now. Very early on, I asked about the size of hand prints (may be even before CW charges were read, hard to remember). Your first post this morning reminded me of it (AB, super glue infusion).
I get that we ALL yet don’t know if bags were used and what was/wasn’t preserved, it’s just curious to me that while Prosc does t yet have the full report to turn over, they also seem to have enough to request palm AND foot prints.
BTW, footprints. Just jumping in here days late and dollars short LOL, CW did seemed to wear flip flops a lot. Perhaps during bagging or dumping process, his foot slipped out of the flip flop, and left a footprint. I know, not too relevant since he admitted to bodies being disposed of by himself. Was just a thought.

I had the same thoughts regarding the print that was discovered on the bag. I'm also starting to think the girls might have been concealed in bags when placed in the tanks. The behavior we've seen from CW (interviews, the lies, observations from those interacting with him that day) seem to indicate, IMO, that CW was trying to detach himself from what he had done. For those reasons, I can't imagine him carrying the girls up those ladders without something covering them, like a bag for example. Same with SW, as I believe CW likely buried her while she was wrapped in a sheet. MOO
 
Hello <modsnip - unnecessary to tag the poster being quoted>! Welcome back. I appreciate the kind tone of your posts, whether you are expressing agreement or disagreement. You’ve been missed!
To answer your question, I believe you are correct that the Watts home is currently a crime scene and personal belongings would not be released during an active investigation. MOO
Standing back for a bit and it seems to be all are of the same big picture goal :) I appreciate your kind response as well.
Well if that’s the case, and AB is correct that SW family is in town, it does make one wonder. I still can’t believe the Prosc would “lie” and say results weren’t available. BUT maybe given the latest filings, that lit a fire for results to be provided. We are at about the 5-6 weeks mark for tox results, I believe? Surely that’s been expedited for this case, I’d hope.
Whatever the reason is, I do hope there can be a special consideration for ANY immediate family member of SW or CW to have an article now if it helps with their grieving process (a favorite stuffies of the girls, may be left behind stuff for Deiter, etc).
 
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So the prosecutor has to prove that CW killed them all with deliberation. I go back and forth between this case being a slam dunk for the State versus vs a challenging one.

This case is a combination of 'who done it' (OJ, C Anthony, S Peterson) and 'I did it' (Jodi Arias case).

Hope the State has solid evidence that CW killed the children, then the rest will be easier to prove.
 
I think the examples you give may be pretty accurate. Nothing too long, just short messages, and maybe a " love you babe" " where are you guys?" And I think you are so right about the interviews. Notice when asked about her family looking for her he says, " I mean, like just let them know, I mean, Colorado, I mean ... can't just drive around and look, I mean," he seems to be searching in his mind and trying to decide what to say. I wonder how important the interviews will be in the trial. I also think it's interesting how he compares Celeste to Shanann. She's called rampage. Always a trouble maker, yelling, and then he says she is just like SW. Is this a subtle way of blaming his wife? Then he says Bella is calm, cautious, the mothering type. "She's more like me." Is he setting things up in his mind? He seems pretty easy to read. Jmo
If he texts like he talks, it probably was something like this: “Like Shanann, like where are you right now? Like I’m worried about you. Like.”
 
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