Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

[Niner]

Sorry, but every time I came here to post - the thread was closed. And now I have skipped over at least 9 threads!! So don't know if this has been posted.

Judge in Christopher Watts case orders prosecution to give autopsy to defense

Watts' defense attorneys filed a motion on Friday (9/21) saying they could not respond to the prosecution's request because they did not yet have the reports.
The motion argued the prosecution has not met its "constitutional obligations" to turn over evidence to the defense, and thus was in violation of due process of law and was undermining the fairness of the proceedings.
[.....]
Watts' attorneys also filed a motion requesting a protective order that would allow them to withhold information about confidential jail visits. While Kopcow denied the request, he provided an alternative for the defense.
[.....]
Judge Kopcow handling the Watts case has ordered the prosecution to hand deliver the autopsy reports to Watts' defense attorneys by Tuesday (9/25) after they accused the prosecution of withholding evidence.
[.....]
Judge Kopcow also denied the defense's motion for a protective order that would prohibit the Weld County Sheriff's Office from disclosing information about confidential jail visits.

 

[FlossyMay]

Right, and he didn't call for help. According to his story, he was acting as judge, jury and executioner if indeed he did "strangle her in a rage." Which is still a crime. Not that I believe a word he says, I'm just sayin'.

Yes. Whichever version of this story you believe, this man's first thought was to save his own butt, not to save his innocent children's lives, not to seek justice for those he claimed to love. His concern was what people would think of HIM.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Aaaaah, thank you Harmony for that coffee. I really needed that. You have the best pics when you open the threads.

 

[MKZoo]

I find it impossible to watch that video posted above here, of one of the three interviews that day (watching all three back-to-back is even worse) without being certain that CW is guilty of murdering his family. Now that we know he was for sure lying and knew they were all dead, it is even worse. So many bizarre moments. She came home at "around" 1:48? The surprise in his voice that he does miss moments with his kids? "I MISS that," as if he somehow didn't realize he would when he was murdering them (IMO). Like someone else posted (sorry, can't find it), it shouldn't bother me so much that a few buy his crazy story that Shan'ann murdered the children, but it's an affront to society because it is a last assault ion his victims -- he has succeeded in casting a shadow on a devoted mom who is a VICTIM of this murderer. I also have mentioned a few times and would love to know if anyone else knows this case -- Chris Vaughn -- are we not allowed to compare cases? He also tried to blame the children's deaths on his wife, their mom, also a devoted mom. Thankfully the jury didn't buy his cockamamie story and I suspect there is a mountain of evidence against CW as the murderer of all 4 victims. JMO MOO.

I took a look at the Vaughn case when you mentioned it yesterday. The part that gave me hope was that he was ultimately undone by forensics proving his “wife went crazy” story could not have happened. I am praying that enough evidence survived CW’s attempt to destroy it and they can show his story is also horse pucky.

 

[JudgeJudi]

On the last thread, someone posted about how stiff SW's body may have been but I forgot to make a copy of it. This is my reply.

“* If the body feels warm and is flaccid, it has been dead less than 3 hours.

* If the body feels warm and is stiff, it has been dead from 3 to 8 hours.

This crude estimate should never be used as a definitive statement in legal proceedings, as it is only meant as a rough guide ‘on the spot’.”

Knights Forensic Pathology

It goes on in great detail but hopefully it will be sufficient for our purposes.

 

[rainynights]

<modsnip - removed quoted post and direct response to it>
I like to believe that everyone has a right to like or dislike someone. It's simply unfortunate in this case, that the person being judged here is a murder victim. I feel for the families who have to read any negativity that is expressed towards SW.

FWIW, we do have a VI here who says he/she knew CW and SW when they were together, and also knew CW before SW. The line of like and dislike can be grey at times.

For example, our VI has given us insight into his/her opinion of SW as an individual (I readily recall this answer, because it was my question):

BBM

i would love to answer all of those for you but I need to think about my wording. As far as interacting with SW, she had a way of making you like her. She brought people in. You couldn’t help but like her. There were times I liked her very much. I just saw a different side that most probably didn’t.

I believe we have the right to choose what we want to believe, while considering who is making the statement, just as we have the ability to do with VI statements made here.

I also believe that with anyone apparently speaking negatively of SW (as many have shared they've seen, I personally choose not to read other comments posted elsewhere), it's important to note that the vast majority of them likely never interacted with SW individually, whether online or in real life, even once. It's doesn't change the fact that it still is hurtful to see.

ETA: JMO

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Yes. Whichever version of this story you believe, this man's first thought was to save his own butt, not to save his innocent children's lives, not to seek justice for those he claimed to love. His concern was what people would think of HIM.

And the complexity of that cover-up! It's truly staggering.
Some people have compared his self-protective instinct to how one might act in a hit-and-run — panicking and in the heat of the moment making the wrong moral choice by running away in order to escape the consequences. (Not saying anyone has minimised this crime by suggesting it's equivalent to a hit-and-run.)
But in a hit-and-run, you run. That's it. You don't need to do anything else. No cover-up required. And I think while hit-and-runs are contemptible, at least we can understand the fears that in a split second might tempt someone to high-tail it out of there and not look back.
But this. All the things he had to do. The methodical moving of the bodies. The grave digging. The oil tanks. The phone calls to SW after her death. The lying. The media interviews. The fake appeals for their safe return. It's not something I can wrap my brain around. I don't remotely see for a second how his version of events could be true.

 

[Medstudies]

<modsnip - removed response regarding social media> I like to believe that everyone has a right to like or dislike someone. SNIP...

...FWIW, we do have a VI here who says he/she knew CW and SW when they were together, and also knew CW before SW. The line of like and dislike can be grey at times... SNIP

I believe we have the right to choose what we want to believe, while considering who is making the statement, just as we have the ability to do with VI statements made here.

Agreed.

then there is this
Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth

 

[Jennifer17]

<modsnip - removed response regarding social media> I like to believe that everyone has a right to like or dislike someone. It's simply unfortunate in this case, that the person being judged here is a murder victim. I feel for the families who have to read any negativity that is expressed towards SW.

FWIW, we do have a VI here who says he/she knew CW and SW when they were together, and also knew CW before SW. The line of like and dislike can be grey at times.

For example, our VI has given us insight into his/her opinion of SW as an individual (I readily recall this answer, because it was my question):

BBM



I believe we have the right to choose what we want to believe, while considering who is making the statement, just as we have the ability to do with VI statements made here.

I also believe that with anyone apparently speaking negatively of SW (as many have shared they've seen, I personally choose not to read other comments posted elsewhere), it's important to note that the vast majority of them likely never interacted with SW individually, whether online or in real life, even once. It's doesn't change the fact that it still is hurtful to see.

Yes, and you can dislike people that you don't even know but not make up things about them and judge them based on your own biases.
In every one of those videos that she is being judged in, he was participating in but she is the villain.

 

[BeckyF]

I find it impossible to watch that video posted above here, of one of the three interviews that day (watching all three back-to-back is even worse) without being certain that CW is guilty of murdering his family. Now that we know he was for sure lying and knew they were all dead, it is even worse. So many bizarre moments. She came home at "around" 1:48? The surprise in his voice that he does miss moments with his kids? "I MISS that," as if he somehow didn't realize he would when he was murdering them (IMO). Like someone else posted (sorry, can't find it), it shouldn't bother me so much that a few buy his crazy story that Shan'ann murdered the children, but it's an affront to society because it is a last assault ion his victims -- he has succeeded in casting a shadow on a devoted mom who is a VICTIM of this murderer. I also have mentioned a few times and would love to know if anyone else knows this case -- Chris Vaughn -- are we not allowed to compare cases? He also tried to blame the children's deaths on his wife, their mom, also a devoted mom. Thankfully the jury didn't buy his cockamamie story and I suspect there is a mountain of evidence against CW as the murderer of all 4 victims. JMO MOO.

I remember the Chris Vaughn case and how he blamed his dead wife for murdering the children so he had to kill her, the jury didn't buy it.

 

[human]

For whatever reason, there was a postulation that people are not killed for petty reasons. This is a compliation of a list from a month of January. These lists are made for every month.

I originally thought he planned to kill her and things went awry with the three hour delay.

If there was a plan,I am not sure how it would have been different. I don’t know how he could have driven her away in her car and returned home . What was the plan? She walked away? Someone picked her up?

If he had the disposal plan in the oil tanks, could he really drive there in the middle of the night? Did it make more sense to do it at the time that he did?

It seems like there was separation talk since the woman in NC knew about it. Where did the info come from if it was not SW? Perhaps he is friends with the woman and said it to her while he was there in NC?

If it was a plan, it would seem that he should go for it at 2 am which would give him three hours to tie up lose ends. Why didn’t he? He could have taken the purse and whatever else and ditched it in the tanks or another good location. The plan makes no sense if it was a plan.

How was she going to leave the house?

Anyway, here are petty reasons for murder in a month of January.
Parents Against Gun Violence compile list of reasons people got shot in January | Metro News

 

[MsBetsy]

Great post Gitana!
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

There is NO reason why he didn't try to perform CPR on this little one.

No, and in his own admission he stated that she was in the act of strangling her. Not that she strangled her, killed her, but that she was in the process of trying to kill her. His attempt of making it look like Self defence is going to backfire for this very reason. Imo

 

[MKZoo]

Yes, and you can dislike people that you don't even know but not make up things about them and judge them based on your own biases.
In every one of those videos that she is being judged in, he was participating in but she is the villain.

I say this in general and not directed at anyone here but I think there is also a desire for some people to conclude that this family was simply killed because of how SW acted and things SW did. Therefore, if they don’t do those things or act that way, this could never happen to them.

It’s a lot easier to deal with than the idea that CW may just have been a monster who was capable of doing this without warning or provocation.

 

[MsBetsy]

I find it impossible to watch that video posted above here, of one of the three interviews that day (watching all three back-to-back is even worse) without being certain that CW is guilty of murdering his family. Now that we know he was for sure lying and knew they were all dead, it is even worse. So many bizarre moments. She came home at "around" 1:48? The surprise in his voice that he does miss moments with his kids? "I MISS that," as if he somehow didn't realize he would when he was murdering them (IMO). Like someone else posted (sorry, can't find it), it shouldn't bother me so much that a few buy his crazy story that Shan'ann murdered the children, but it's an affront to society because it is a last assault ion his victims -- he has succeeded in casting a shadow on a devoted mom who is a VICTIM of this murderer. I also have mentioned a few times and would love to know if anyone else knows this case -- Chris Vaughn -- are we not allowed to compare cases? He also tried to blame the children's deaths on his wife, their mom, also a devoted mom. Thankfully the jury didn't buy his cockamamie story and I suspect there is a mountain of evidence against CW as the murderer of all 4 victims. JMO MOO.

Also, his choice of words when he said he expected his child to barrel rush him while he knew she was soaking in a barrel of oil.

 

[dlharris2712]

Yes. Whichever version of this story you believe, this man's first thought was to save his own butt, not to save his innocent children's lives, not to seek justice for those he claimed to love. His concern was what people would think of HIM.

Here is a heartbreaking quote from the Chris Vaughn trial, stated by Kimberly Vaughn's twin sister, "Our hearts ache with the knowledge that they were priceless to everyone but the one man who should have loved them more than his own life," she said of her four slain family members. Seems rather fitting in this case; as I believe CW felt this exact same way. jmo

 

[JudgeJudi]

@Shekkiec

“Ok thanks ! I guess the moniter so far as evidence wouldn’t make me vote guilty or the interview. I need direct evidence so thank you for that link so i don’t misspeak“.

“I do not see the baby moniter as a prosecution benefit, I don’t see him lying on interview basis he killed the girls, I think if he didn’t call 911 perhaps he panicked but still not a reason to convict for me personally . I don’t believe him having an affair would make me vote guilty . I think physical evidence directly linking him to the death would matter. I think if I didn’t see someone kill you but I had fingerprints or weapon I would convict . Same here”

Are you saying that if his fingerprints and/or handprints and/or DNA are found on the necks of the babies, and none are from SW, you would still believe he’s innocent?

As far as the monitor goes, he said that Bella was blue and that he saw SW actively strangling Cece. If it’s proven in court that it was physically impossible to tell that Bella was blue, i.e. he lied, would you still believe he was innocent?

I’m just gobsmacked. Most criminal convictions are based on circumstantial evidence.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but my head is still reeling.

 

[MollyDDD]

Good morning,
I wanted to share this episode of AB with Joe Scott Morgan because it has a good illustration of the superglue fuming method for comparing finger/palm prints that was discussed here several threads back.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1912132079093397

Those were two happy, healthy and loved little girls.
It is just horrendous to know their lives were taken from them.

 

[SuspiciousFNP]

<modsnip - removed reference to social media> I like to believe that everyone has a right to like or dislike someone. It's simply unfortunate in this case, that the person being judged here is a murder victim. I feel for the families who have to read any negativity that is expressed towards SW.

FWIW, we do have a VI here who says he/she knew CW and SW when they were together, and also knew CW before SW. The line of like and dislike can be grey at times.

For example, our VI has given us insight into his/her opinion of SW as an individual (I readily recall this answer, because it was my question):

BBM


I believe we have the right to choose what we want to believe, while considering who is making the statement, just as we have the ability to do with VI statements made here.

I also believe that with anyone apparently speaking negatively of SW (as many have shared they've seen, I personally choose not to read other comments posted elsewhere), it's important to note that the vast majority of them likely never interacted with SW individually, whether online or in real life, even once. It's doesn't change the fact that it still is hurtful to see.

ETA: JMO

Agree! And I know this has been stated over and over... but once again, even if SW was an emotionally abusive, terrible, nagging wife, her murder and the murder of her children will NEVER be justified. There were other ways he could have removed himself from the situation without resorting to this sick act. JMO.

 

[Medstudies]

He was involved in at least one extramarital affair. “He was distant.” “Less attentive to the kids.” Baby 3 was on the way. Long term health care concerns. Along with financial concerns.

Anyway, i was going to say “ I don’t think it was just one thing. I think it was a cumulative build up that led him to murdering and disposing of his family like yesterday’s garbage.

<modsnip no name calling please> Ack, I know better, my apologies for going there

The Richard Pryor quote “who are you going to believe? Me? Or your lying eyes?” is so applicable.

 

[NuttMegg]

On the last thread, someone posted about how stiff SW's body may have been but I forgot to make a copy of it. This is my reply.

“* If the body feels warm and is flaccid, it has been dead less than 3 hours.

* If the body feels warm and is stiff, it has been dead from 3 to 8 hours.

This crude estimate should never be used as a definitive statement in legal proceedings, as it is only meant as a rough guide ‘on the spot’.”

Knights Forensic Pathology

It goes on in great detail but hopefully it will be sufficient for our purposes.

Then, depending on when he murdered Shan'nan, she might have been quite stiff when he tried to stuff her in the tank. IE killed at 2:30, 4 hours later at 6:30, nope won't fit in tank, I guess I'll just dig a shallow hole and let the varmints deal with her. (My wife and little son)