Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

[pinkie60]

I'm still stuck on the why this happened. Although there is no excuse on earth that would justify homicide.
I think she handled the finances , bill paying etc. and I think he was content to go along. I don't think debt bothered him at all .
I think when he decided he wanted out then he started thinking of the money situation. Maybe he had no money to get a place. They were in debt and he would be responsible for at least half of it plus child support. Maybe because wanted to sell the house and she was against it because that's the first thing he wanted to do after she supposedly went missing

 

[rainynights]

For whatever reason, there was a postulation that people are not killed for petty reasons. This is a compliation of a list from a month of January. These lists are made for every month.

I originally thought he planned to kill her and things went awry with the three hour delay.

If there was a plan,I am not sure how it would have been different. I don’t know how he could have driven her away in her car and returned home . What was the plan? She walked away? Someone picked her up?

If he had the disposal plan in the oil tanks, could he really drive there in the middle of the night? Did it make more sense to do it at the time that he did?

It seems like there was separation talk since the woman in NC knew about it. Where did the info come from if it was not SW? Perhaps he is friends with the woman and said it to her while he was there in NC?

If it was a plan, it would seem that he should go for it at 2 am which would give him three hours to tie up lose ends. Why didn’t he? He could have taken the purse and whatever else and ditched it in the tanks or another good location. The plan makes no sense if it was a plan.

How was she going to leave the house?

Anyway, here are petty reasons for murder in a month of January.
Parents Against Gun Violence compile list of reasons people got shot in January | Metro News

Those are great questions. During the initial walkthrough that afternoon, we know all windows and doors were locked, including the rear slider, per the affidavit.

I'm thinking CW's original plan may have been to go to work, return home after his shift, and unlock the rear slider. AFAIK, that seemed to be the only area that he believed may have been out of any neighbor's surveillance camera view. That way, he could stick to a story such as "I returned home, and found all of her personal belongings, but the rear slider was unlocked, so maybe they got taken from someone back there."

I think the home was initially locked down by CW before he left for work to protect his crime scene, and to avoid anyone from entering the home before he was ready for it. He just didn't foresee LE being dispatched to the residence for a check wellbeing call.

JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip - removed quoted post and direct response to it> The only way I see financial problems as being the motive, is if he expected his new women to take care of him, and thought that she had the financial means to help him get out of dept or move up on the ladder. Not implying that's what I think, at this time anything is a possibility. Jmo

 

[esmerelda]

Some thoughts this morning after having read the last several threads. My oldest has been on their own for 4 yrs, if more than a few hrs go by after a missed phone call, I start having all kinds of scenarios go thru my head. When a toddler we had visited a bird sanctuary, a nesting goose started chasing us, I ran... It embarrasses me to this day, the guilt i ran instead of protecting my child. My child's absent father called me in tears one day after some testing because said child was convinced they had cancer like Grandma, my ex was inconsolable. Shocked me because he was so uninvolved in their life. What I'm trying to convey is Yes parents are not perfect, but love and concern for your child is there regardless of shortcomings. When I think of these scenarios the story CW tells is absolute rubbish. IMO.

 

[Nudgee]

I’ve been trying to catch up on the threads these past few days. I have seen where the the tread was closed early due to discussions not tolerated. It made me think of a quote from Eleanor Roosevelt (although I’m way younger, I do love her quotes)... ER said, “ Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people”. And while I know it’s hard not to discuss people (CW/SW) in this case because people are what makes up this case, It was a quote which stood out to me. WS is a made up of a ton of GREAT MINDS discussing ideas & to me; you are brilliant in your ideas! It takes the great mind to throw those ideas out there.... as for average mind discussing events.... that goes without saying... we are discussing events/facts as they are presented to when they come in ...as for small minds discussing people, not sure how we can avoid that in a case like this, but can choose how we decide to discuss the people involved! I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again....I am learning so much from reading all your posts! Thank You for that...... sleuth on!,,

 

[WildWest]

@cailleach

“The thing is this was the ultimate act of DV. I've been an advocate for DV victims/survivors. Choking/strangulation is a preferred method of DV perpetrators. The thing the common person isn't aware of is that it only leaves bruising in a little over half of the cases so we don't know if he had choked her other times. People need to remember that even in today's world women are ashamed and there's lots of stigma associated with it so it's on par with sexual assault being underreported. If the former A/P that dumped him is telling the truth, he was experienced and knowledgeable about the method. JMO”

I’d love to know if LE are aware of this woman, and if so, is she on their witness list. IF he takes the stand, which I doubt, I can foresee some brutal cross-examination. People may do strange or kinky things during intimate moments but I wouldn’t think choking was one of them.

Did that unverified woman come forward after he was arrested? If she is legit maybe that's why she's not on the witness list?

 

[NuttMegg]

I'm still stuck on the why this happened. Although there is no excuse on earth that would justify homicide.
I think she handled the finances , bill paying etc. and I think he was content to go along. I don't think debt bothered him at all .
I think when he decided he wanted out then he started thinking of the money situation. Maybe he had no money to get a place. They were in debt and he would be responsible for at least half of it plus child support. Maybe because wanted to sell the house and she was against it because that's the first thing he wanted to do after she supposedly went missing

Yes, his sicko mind apparently went straight to "OK, been there, done that, now how can I get some money out of what's left". IMO

 

[BeckyF]

Does anyone think that people might think twice about putting so much of their lives on SM for the world to see after reading about this case?

 

[Jennifer17]

@Shekkiec

“Ok thanks ! I guess the moniter so far as evidence wouldn’t make me vote guilty or the interview. I need direct evidence so thank you for that link so i don’t misspeak“.

“I do not see the baby moniter as a prosecution benefit, I don’t see him lying on interview basis he killed the girls, I think if he didn’t call 911 perhaps he panicked but still not a reason to convict for me personally . I don’t believe him having an affair would make me vote guilty . I think physical evidence directly linking him to the death would matter. I think if I didn’t see someone kill you but I had fingerprints or weapon I would convict . Same here”

Are you saying that if his fingerprints and/or handprints and/or DNA are found on the necks of the babies, and none are from SW, you would still believe he’s innocent?

As far as the monitor goes, he said that Bella was blue and that he saw SW actively strangling Cece. If it’s proven in court that it was physically impossible to tell that Bella was blue, i.e. he lied, would you still believe he was innocent?

I’m just gobsmacked. Most criminal convictions are based on circumstantial evidence.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but my head is still reeling.

That puzzles me too. Saying that you cannot believe that he killed them without direct evidence means that you believe the word of a proven liar who is trying to save his own skin over the proof of his consciousness of guilt in that he then hid the bodies in a disgusting manner.
And the only evidence that she killed them is not even circumstantial, there is no evidence, not one scrap except highly subjective opinions on her parenting style.

 

[Madison418]

@Shekkiec

“Ok thanks ! I guess the moniter so far as evidence wouldn’t make me vote guilty or the interview. I need direct evidence so thank you for that link so i don’t misspeak“.

“I do not see the baby moniter as a prosecution benefit, I don’t see him lying on interview basis he killed the girls, I think if he didn’t call 911 perhaps he panicked but still not a reason to convict for me personally . I don’t believe him having an affair would make me vote guilty . I think physical evidence directly linking him to the death would matter. I think if I didn’t see someone kill you but I had fingerprints or weapon I would convict . Same here”

Are you saying that if his fingerprints and/or handprints and/or DNA are found on the necks of the babies, and none are from SW, you would still believe he’s innocent?

As far as the monitor goes, he said that Bella was blue and that he saw SW actively strangling Cece. If it’s proven in court that it was physically impossible to tell that Bella was blue, i.e. he lied, would you still believe he was innocent?

I’m just gobsmacked. Most criminal convictions are based on circumstantial evidence.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but my head is still reeling.

I think it's the CSI effect honestly. People rely too heavily on DNA evidence when sometimes there just isn't any or enough. And also "reasonable" in the context of doubt seems to vary widely...IMO

Edit: spelling:\

 

[MsBetsy]

Those are great questions. During the initial walkthrough that afternoon, we know all windows and doors were locked, including the rear slider, per the affidavit.

I'm thinking CW's original plan may have been to go to work, return home after his shift, and unlock the rear slider. AFAIK, that seemed to be the only area that he believed may have been out of any neighbor's surveillance camera view. That way, he could stick to a story such as "I returned home, and found all of her personal belongings, but the rear slider was unlocked, so maybe they got taken from someone back there."

I think the home was initially locked down by CW before he left for work to protect his crime scene, and to avoid anyone from entering the home before he was ready for it. He just didn't foresee LE being dispatched to the residence for a check wellbeing call.

JMO.

Or he may have planned on getting rid of her purse and phone ( which was found between the cushions on the couch) and the car seats, and made it look like she went out the back way and got a ride from a friend, and left him. He could have explained why she didn't take the car since it was a company car and did not belong to her, making it look like she intended to leave her life behind. Not really a credible story, but then again neither is anything else he has said. Jmo

 

[dgfred]

Maybe... but getting 'rid' of anything was likely to be a problem for him at some point.
Probably better off with the 'somebody took them' out the back door theory. If he takes her car anywhere he can't get back... if he takes his truck LE and everybody else will eventually know where he went.

 

[dgfred]

Thinking about it... except for the problem of time of death he maybe should have left them where they were and left for work.
Or, right after killing them... try the Darlene Routier/husband story/tale. He was in a heavy, having to do all the kid taking care of, sleep and didn't hear a thing when his wife and kids were killed by a complete stranger (or two).

 

[Medstudies]

You could be right about all of that. The only way I see financial problems as being the motive, is if he expected his new women to take care of him, and thought that she had the financial means to help him get out of dept or move up on the ladder. Not implying that's what I think, at this time anything is a possibility. Jmo

Oh!, I meant to speculate on long term financial implications based on the healthcare issues.

The average annual cost for lupus treatment was reported at $12k in 2008. (With lost productivity average of over 8k a year.) And the new wonder drug for Lupus runs close to $40k a year.

Then factor in the medical issues for the children. Year after year. With divorce he would not necessarily be on the hook for SW, but imagine he would be the one to carry the kids on insurance and for half of out of pockets...

Just thinking out loud.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I think it's the CSI effect honestly. People rely too heavily on DNA evidence when sometimes there just isn't any or enough. And also "reasonable" in the context of doubt seems to very widely...IMO

I certainly don't put all my eggs in one basket when it comes to DNA. I followed the Henri van Breda trial and there was approx. one full week of testimony on DNA. It ended up not contributing at all to the outcome of the case which was all based on other circumstantial evidence. It was an extremely complex trial and the summary of the judgment was several hundred pages long. The judge dotted every i and crossed every t. It was worth all the agony though because he got 3 life sentences + 15 years + 1 year. It was a judge only trial.

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

Does anyone think that people might think twice about putting so much of their lives on SM for the world to see after reading about this case?

If... I bet it wouldn't last for a long time. Just thinking about the facebook data scandal that hit millions of users but wouldn't stop many of them from using it. I never used it and always tried to keep things private since I had some really frightening encounters with a few persons I met online when I was a naive teenager.
But as I already stated I feel so sorry for her because some people would use her postings to damage her image as if it wasn't enough that she and all of her babies got murdered.

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe... but getting 'rid' of anything was likely to be a problem for him at some point.
Probably better off with the 'somebody took them' out the back door theory. If he takes her car anywhere he can't get back... if he takes his truck LE and everybody else will eventually know where he went.

True, and he did kind of lay the groundwork for that story in his interview.. imo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think it's the CSI effect honestly. People rely too heavily on DNA evidence when sometimes there just isn't any or enough. And also "reasonable" in the context of doubt seems to very widely...IMO

It also worries me, and as @gitana1 said ..she is scared about a potential jury case.

That folks that get on juries and think they know and understand the law and the definitions, but they so obviously and apparently don't and they fight you on it.

That folks on the juries, They don't listen to Legal definitions, and legal documents put right in front of their nose.

The folks on the jury during deliberation, people who say they want direct evidence, not circumstantial, and then they continue to say they want DNA, they want fingerprints, yet they refuse to believe and/or understand that is circumstantial evidence. And is just as important as direct evidence, within most legal directions.

Many folks who may be seated on the jury, that believe that direct is better than circumstial these days if it comes from a eye Witness, yet that is proven again and again that is not the case..

Reminds me of the Casey Anthony case where the foreman, perhaps, influenced others with interpretation, yet misinformation, and jurors came out espousing ....".how could we convict her as we didn't know how she died? And what was the motive?"

Hello! Did you not read the jury instructions and that doesn't matter?

I do understand and believe in jury nullification, but this is not what we saw when they were interviewed. They were merely ignorant and could not understand the law? Even when legal documents were given to them and explain to them.

I did not at first understand, yet I now am better understanding why Gitana said s/he is scared.

ETA- perhaps that is what others are atoning to, that they would do jury nullification. That they would think that he did it, but he had reason to. SMH SMH SMH. Perhaps that is exactly what we are seeing here on the threads, is that folks here might do jury nullification and that is their real justification behind their opinions, but they just don't know how to communicate such?

 

[dgfred]

Plus... the neighbor's camera (had to know about) aimed at his house probably struggled his every thought. I bet he wanted to go over there and smash it.

 

[MsBetsy]

Oh!, I meant to speculate on long term financial implications based on the healthcare issues.

The average annual cost for lupus treatment was reported at $12k in 2008. (With lost productivity average of over 8k a year.) And the new wonder drug for Lupus runs close to $40k a year.

Then factor in the medical issues for the children. Year after year. With divorce he would not necessarily be on the hook for SW, but imagine he would be the one to carry the kids on insurance and for half of out of pockets...

Just thinking out loud.

True. But it would be nearly impossible for him to pay the mortgage on the house. I think I read they still owed over 300,000 on it, plus the 600 car payment for the truck. Jmo

 

[human]

Or he may have planned on getting rid of her purse and phone ( which was found between the cushions on the couch) and the car seats, and made it look like she went out the back way and got a ride from a friend, and left him. He could have explained why she didn't take the car since it was a company car and did not belong to her, making it look like she intended to leave her life behind. Not really a credible story, but then again neither is anything else he has said. Jmo

Why didn’t he take them right away?