Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

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human said:
Why didn’t he take them right away?
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Only place to dispose of anything was at his work places... but he might as well have. Probably means he was thinking of the somebody took them story at first.
He needed to get back home and stage... but her dang (in his eyes) friend was too nosey and ruined everything.
 
MsBetsy said:
True. But it would be nearly impossible for him to pay the mortgage on the house. I think I read they still owed over 300,000 on it, plus the 600 car payment for the truck. Jmo
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Very true. MOO: They were “House Poor” Even with the increased valuation.

IDK if they had a substantial savings/401k/ROTH’s but part of me suspects that they were living pretty much paycheck to paycheck. Or on credit.

Again just MOO
 
dixiegirl1035 said:
But were the children in a sealed bag preventing intrusion of any oil?

Polar molecules dissolve polar molecules only and non-polar molecules ( like the lipids in the fingerprints) dissolve in non-polar solvent (as such is oil).

Unless the children were sealed in a Ziploc bag type to prevent the oil getting on them, I do not believe that they will be able to retrieve fingerprints.

Even if they could, they would first have to scrape off the oil and I don't think that would be able to be removed, dry skin, and leave the fingerprints there to even get with the super glue.

Moo

https://www.quora.com/Is-oil-non-polar-or-polar

ETA- even if the bag was sealed when they went in, I don't think it would stay sealed because the buildup of body gases during decomposition.
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I watched this video hoping it would clarify some of those things (with exception of whether they were in bags - I knew AB wouldn't have that info), but it falls short of that, unfortunately. I've wondered if the girls were wrapped in blankets or inside bags, or both. We just don't know. In short, I'm no help here, but I thought it was a good illustration of superglue fuming.
MOO

AbbyG said:
I find it impossible to watch that video posted above here, of one of the three interviews that day (watching all three back-to-back is even worse) without being certain that CW is guilty of murdering his family. Now that we know he was for sure lying and knew they were all dead, it is even worse. So many bizarre moments. She came home at "around" 1:48? The surprise in his voice that he does miss moments with his kids? "I MISS that," as if he somehow didn't realize he would when he was murdering them (IMO). Like someone else posted (sorry, can't find it), it shouldn't bother me so much that a few buy his crazy story that Shan'ann murdered the children, but it's an affront to society because it is a last assault ion his victims -- he has succeeded in casting a shadow on a devoted mom who is a VICTIM of this murderer. I also have mentioned a few times and would love to know if anyone else knows this case -- Chris Vaughn -- are we not allowed to compare cases? He also tried to blame the children's deaths on his wife, their mom, also a devoted mom. Thankfully the jury didn't buy his cockamamie story and I suspect there is a mountain of evidence against CW as the murderer of all 4 victims. JMO MOO.
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It's my understanding that we can use other cases for reference and to make comparisons, but not discuss them at length.
MOO
 
Nudgee said:
I’ve been trying to catch up on the threads these past few days. I have seen where the the tread was closed early due to discussions not tolerated. It made me think of a quote from Eleanor Roosevelt (although I’m way younger, I do love her quotes)... ER said, “ Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people”. And while I know it’s hard not to discuss people (CW/SW) in this case because people are what makes up this case, It was a quote which stood out to me. WS is a made up of a ton of GREAT MINDS discussing ideas & to me; you are brilliant in your ideas! It takes the great mind to throw those ideas out there.... as for average mind discussing events.... that goes without saying... we are discussing events/facts as they are presented to when they come in ...as for small minds discussing people, not sure how we can avoid that in a case like this, but can choose how we decide to discuss the people involved! I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again....I am learning so much from reading all your posts! Thank You for that...... sleuth on!,,
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That's one of my favorite quotes from a First Lady. If we can at least keep it in that order, it might be a good thing to keep in mind. Jmo
 
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...t's Motion (D-038) and Court's Order C-14.pdf

The people have this morning they said they have not received the autopsy report yet, and they were doing it in advance of the autopsy being released. More information at link.

They said they have received 20 requests for the autopsy report, and they filed it in advance due to abundance of caution. They did not mean to keep it from the defense, they meant to keep it from the public and the media. The autopsy report has not been finalized by the *forensic pathologist*(not ME) so the medical examiner cannot release it at this time.

My own opinion
 
<modsnip - removed quoted post and direct response to it> I believe that there was alot going on underneath the surface and that he probably just later in his life recognized that the "american dream" everybody thought he was living (besides maybe the financial issues) was in realty not his dream. I think he wanted out and did not know how... now the third child was on the way maybe the AP wanted to quit the affair because of this. He felt trapped, he was not lucky with Shannan ( I mean he cheated on this poor woman!!) and he had a few weeks without any "family obligations" - he tasted the sweet of a life he thought he could never have ... unless... (you all know how the story ended)

But of course there are still many many possibilities left. Maybe he loved his wife and his kids, they had an argument and he really just *snapped*. But how on earth can a loving parent place his little girls in oils tanks? I know this has been questioned a million times but this is the point which bothers me so much I can not think of anything else than that he felt his family was more of a burden than a gift to him and in the end he just wanted to get rid of them placing them somewhere to never be found again.
 
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Medstudies said:
Very true. MOO: They were “House Poor” Even with the increased valuation.

IDK if they had a substantial savings/401k/ROTH’s but part of me suspects that they were living pretty much paycheck to paycheck. Or on credit.

Again just MOO
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Yes, maybe all that you said about his looming dept staying married and the continued burden of the house led him to believe there were better alternatives. You never know.
 
<modsnip - removed quoted post>

I do not think he planned this his whole life, nor did he lie about loving his wife and children. I think he started out a happy family man. He didn't lay in wait for this day to murder them all.

I think it is something that slowly built up inside him. He had never had a serious relationship before. This was all new to him. This was his first real girlfriend, and before he knew it, he had 2 little daughters, a big house with big house payments, a pregnant wife, with her own medical issues, lots of medical bills from his family, and a past bankruptcy, with a possible new one looming. He worked hard at a job that was not all that exciting.

He began to greatly dislike his current life. His wife used to cater to him, dote on him, when they were newly in love. But now she had the kids and 'her people' and her sales career and her social media life. And now the pregnancy...was their 3rd child going to have medical issues too?

CW was a quiet, simple man and his life had become chaotic and complicated. His wife liked the finest things in life and he worked hard to try and keep up with their expenses. He wanted to provide for his family so he spared no expense. But soon, he was barely treading water, once again. And there was no end in sight, with the upcoming birth and the new mouth to feed.

His girl friend understood him. She catered to him and gave him a nice quiet place to relax. It became harder and harder to imagine sticking it out in his family life.

He never showed anger or frustration. He just stuffed it and stuffed it...until he couldn't do so anymore...
 
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Medstudies said:
Agreed.

then there is this
Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth
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That's a keeper, thanks!

MKZoo said:
I say this in general and not directed at anyone here but I think there is also a desire for some people to conclude that this family was simply killed because of how SW acted and things SW did. Therefore, if they don’t do those things or act that way, this could never happen to them.

It’s a lot easier to deal with than the idea that CW may just have been a monster who was capable of doing this without warning or provocation.
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BBM
Bingo.

dgfred said:
Maybe... but getting 'rid' of anything was likely to be a problem for him at some point.
Probably better off with the 'somebody took them' out the back door theory. If he takes her car anywhere he can't get back... if he takes his truck LE and everybody else will eventually know where he went.
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MsBetsy said:
True, and he did kind of lay the groundwork for that story in his interview.. imo
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Oh to be a fly on the wall if LE ever questioned him about that insinuation. So...someone jumped over the fence 6 times (3 round trips) and carried 3 people out of the house through a door that was locked from the inside? As stupid as that sounds, the story he eventually told is almost as ridiculous.
MOO

@cailleach HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Wishing you a beautiful day! :)
 
PommyMommy said:
That's a keeper, thanks!


BBM
Bingo.




Oh to be a fly on the wall if LE ever questioned him about that insinuation. So...someone jumped over the fence 6 times (3 round trips) and carried 3 people out of the house through a door that was locked from the inside? As stupid as that sounds, the story he eventually told is almost as ridiculous.
MOO

@cailleach HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Wishing you a beautiful day! :)
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The front door was the 'locked' one, right?
2 people- one handling girls and the other SW
Maybe not carrying... maybe 'forcing' with a gun or knife.
Just thinking out loudish.
 
Jeez... then he definately was planning on a return-fixer-upper kind of staging.
Maybe he 'could' have backed her car in to the garage, loaded everything up, took the vehicle a few miles away, and walked/run home (he did do some running). I don't really see any other options.
 
I wonder if her family noticed his behavior the week he was in NC with them...or was he good enough at faking 'happy family man' that everything appeared fine to them. (just thoughts and of course aside from anything SW may have intimated to them as far of marital discourse/separation etc etc) IMO
 
human said:
For whatever reason, there was a postulation that people are not killed for petty reasons. This is a compliation of a list from a month of January. These lists are made for every month.

I originally thought he planned to kill her and things went awry with the three hour delay.

If there was a plan,I am not sure how it would have been different. I don’t know how he could have driven her away in her car and returned home . What was the plan? She walked away? Someone picked her up?

If he had the disposal plan in the oil tanks, could he really drive there in the middle of the night? Did it make more sense to do it at the time that he did?

It seems like there was separation talk since the woman in NC knew about it. Where did the info come from if it was not SW? Perhaps he is friends with the woman and said it to her while he was there in NC?

If it was a plan, it would seem that he should go for it at 2 am which would give him three hours to tie up lose ends. Why didn’t he? He could have taken the purse and whatever else and ditched it in the tanks or another good location. The plan makes no sense if it was a plan.

How was she going to leave the house?

Anyway, here are petty reasons for murder in a month of January.
Parents Against Gun Violence compile list of reasons people got shot in January | Metro News
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I truly think he forgot that the neighbor had a working camera and Shanann had a very worried best friend.
 
Medstudies said:
Oh!, I meant to speculate on long term financial implications based on the healthcare issues.

The average annual cost for lupus treatment was reported at $12k in 2008. (With lost productivity average of over 8k a year.) And the new wonder drug for Lupus runs close to $40k a year.

Then factor in the medical issues for the children. Year after year. With divorce he would not necessarily be on the hook for SW, but imagine he would be the one to carry the kids on insurance and for half of out of pockets...

Just thinking out loud. ;)
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Jumping off your post about what Lupus costs to treat, there was some wondering here why CW switched jobs from dealership to oil company, health care for him, SW and possible BW might have been costly (for instance my dear husband and kiddo have a policy, just those 2 by themselves, and its $1300/month, or over $15000 per year). I heard the oil companies have great benefits, hypothetically employer paid/assisted health care could have added like $20K/year in health care savings for them not reflected as income in his 2015 bankruptcy earnings.

ETA, not that we know what meds her or her kids were on, but good ol plaquenil and prednisone is usually covered from what I know.
 
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<modsnip - removed quoted post> I do recall seeing the post on SW's FB page showing a screenshot of an iMessage conversation between SW and CW. The conversation includes a photo of her ultrasound, but at the top, CW's text reads "no 5 babies?"

We an only wonder if CW believed there could be multiples for good reason, or if he was just joking around at the possibility.

ETA: JMO.
 
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