Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #32

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@Mrspratcher do

she indeed is a victim but perhaps she is a catalyst to her murder by strangling her babies

Can you point to specific evidence, that gives credence to this theory? Something other than the words of a self admitted liar who dumped the bodies of his family like garbage.
 
@Mrspratcher do

she indeed is a victim but perhaps she is a catalyst to her murder by strangling her babies
Why do you think an exhausted pregnant mom would strangle her toddlers?
Because CW said so?
Because CW says he asked for a separation/divorce?
Because of SW's FB videos with the squirt gun, pie-throwing and Santa?
It makes zero sense imho.

Why would an innocent man lie on tv interviews whilst eagerly showing off his spiffy clothes?
Why would an innocent man dump his toddlers' bodies in crude oil vats?
Why would an innocent man bury his pregnant wife's body, with baby boy Niko in a shallow grave?
Why would an innocent, loving daddy not call 911 IMMEDIATELY to try to save his child?
 
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I don’t know. But I could see the idea that a family on either side being an issue as taking on a life of its own and people starting analyze parents and siblings and such and I thought that was a no no. A moderator could answer your question for sure.
I would definitely contact/tag @Tricia or one her moderators before posting on any family member whatsoever. It's my understanding that we are not allowed to sleuth family members.
 
Oh Layla, I love you and that adorable bunny avatar! Thanks for these summaries!!!
It’s Payback time! Glad to do it. I recently retired, but for years whenever there was a horrific murder, I’d check WS for updates all day long, whenever I could, at work. I was so grateful for them. It’s my turn to return the favor.
 
Can you point to specific evidence, that gives credence to this theory? Something other than the words of a self admitted liar who dumped the bodies of his family like garbage.
Imo the autopsy may have something compelling that the prosecution did not anticipate once they received preliminary findings there the hesitation to get final results is bc they perhaps needed an expert . Moo I believe the timeline matches his confession and can not be disproven. He confessed as to telling the truth and thus far I am still anxiously awaiting the release of these results.
 
He attended NASCAR school. Those cars are incredibly high tech. And he was an ordinary car mechanic but ordinary cars have lots of high tech info in them.

It seems incredible that he would not know about his security system.

So many things that are around this case make no sense such as how he was going to explain how they got out of the house without being seen,


Would anyone agree with me? That CW started daydreaming about killing SW, a while ago, and the girls would be part of SW - he did not see anything of himself in them. One of them looked like him and the other was somewhat shy, but to him, they were her daughters, part of her. And he dreamed, and dreamed, and one day, his imaginary world merged with reality.
Maybe he did not think of the consequences because he did not plan to be alive, and later he chickened out, or maybe the itch was so strong, he simply wanted to be done with it, but whoever said CW loved SW was wrong. I think, the opposite is true.
Conclusion. If you don't like something about the relationship before marriage, don't get married. From here, it will only get worse.
 
And perhaps she is not... In my opinion, the guilt sits solely on his shoulders, not his family’s and not anyone else’s. MOO based on all I “know” at this time.
@Mrspratcher sorry I tagged you to ask a probate question and then replied to someone else . My probate question is when does that get released to her family is it now or after conviction
 
@Mrspratcher do

she indeed is a victim but perhaps she is a catalyst to her murder by strangling her babies
But the point is we have absolutely no evidence to back that up. In no news report does it even hint that that is a possibility. The only source we have is from a murderer who has lied over and over about almost everything. That is not considered evidence. And LE certainly did not name her as a suspect. They seem to have concrete evidence that he is lying, so why would we doubt that? There has not been one person that we have seen in reports that believes his story. We would have to have some pretty solid evidence to suspect her of killing her own children. We haven't even seen an inkling. Jmo
 
Imo the autopsy may have something compelling that the prosecution did not anticipate once they received preliminary findings there the hesitation to get final results is bc they perhaps needed an expert . Moo I believe the timeline matches his confession and can not be disproven. He confessed as to telling the truth and thus far I am still anxiously awaiting the release of these results.
So you can’t point to specific evidence that SW did this, and are assuming that the autopsy results will prove his story?

And the fact that the autopsy results haven’t been released, is evidence that they have found exculpatory evidence in regards to the defendant?
 
But the point is we have absolutely no evidence to back that up. In no news report does it even hint that that is a possibility. The only source we have is from a murderer who has lied over and over about almost everything. That is not considered evidence. And LE certainly did not name her as a suspect. They seem to have concrete evidence that he is lying, so why would we doubt that? There has not been one person that we have seen in reports that believes his story. We would have to have some pretty solid evidence to suspect her of killing her own children. We haven't even seen an inkling. Jmo
The evidence seems to be of her in videos with squirt guns, pie in face and Santa pics, but he was participating in all these things and there is no criticism of him.
 
So you can’t point to specific evidence that SW did this, and are assuming that the autopsy results will prove his story?

And the fact that the autopsy results haven’t been released, is evidence that they have found exculpatory evidence in regards to the defendant?
I said IMO that may be the case. Do you have a reason for them to delay it?
 
Imo the autopsy may have something compelling that the prosecution did not anticipate once they received preliminary findings there the hesitation to get final results is bc they perhaps needed an expert . Moo I believe the timeline matches his confession and can not be disproven. He confessed as to telling the truth and thus far I am still anxiously awaiting the release of these results.
I posted the Colorado statutes last night that dictate how autopsies are handled. Colorado operates in agreement with the National Association of Medical Examiners and coroners are compelled to have the autopsies performed by a certified forensic pathologist if they are not themself a certified forensic pathologist. This isn't some subjective call by the DA. It's simply the law in Colorado.
 
AB 9/26/18
1. An Old Dominion moving truck was parked outside Watts home today being filled with articles from the Watts home. It will be taken to a warehouse to await for further instructions. About 3500 lbs is to be moved. SWs father is there, was seen carrying a bed frame out to the truck. He was red faced and sweaty. Also moved a mirror. Other people were there. Woman in her 30’s was helping, Police there, too. Phone guest, Susan, said she drove by and noticed each time they loaded, they closed up the truck. 2 cars parked out front had Colorado license plates. SWs father smiled at guest, Susan, and she said it was heartbreaking. Memorial has been removed from outside house, there are still purple ribbons and bows around the neighborhood. There has been very little activity at the house until today.
2. AB asked guest, Defense Attorney David Beller, who owns the Watts possessions? Beller says at this point we know that police have held the home for awhile, they’ve collected everything they need of evidentiary value. It’s very likely the home and contents have been turned over to the Watts family, very likely that a jury is never going to see the inside of that home because it’s now been given to SW’s family. Does C.W. have any right to the articles in home? Yes, CW is SWs next of kin. Given the circumstances CW will not have access to or need items for a long time. His best interest is to look past them, to allow SWs family take possession of them, it is obvious that’s what’s happening.
3. Guest, Steve Helling, update on C.W. CW still in cell for 23 hours a day, then allowed out to the “Hour Out Room,” where he has access to a newspaper. He wasn’t reading newspaper, he didn’t realize national interest in story. At some point someone told him. He’s not happy about it. He thinks if people really knew who he was, if they knew the situation, they would come to a very different conclusion of who he is, if people knew, they would change their minds. AB says we know who he is, we watched him lie. Helling said we’ve seen this before, Casey Anthony. John Evander Couey said same thing, said he gave victim a stuffed dolphin after he buried her alive.
4. SW’s father built and installed Kitchen cabinets in SWs kitchen, he’s a cabinet maker. He built the orange stool seen in videos that kids played on. Maybe he’s taking those?
5. Guest, SWs 9th grade theater teacher, Matt Francis, who SW kept up friendship with, last communicated 2 weeks before she died, when she was doing a convention, he saw it and congratulated her. She used to be shy and insecure, she’s grown a lot. In class she realized the class was all about ensemble. SW realized people cared about her, she started to thrive. Had low self esteem, was teased. Her name was Shanna Ann. Very southern. Matt found a letter that SW wrote to him. (See letter in attached photo) Matt is in tears as they talk. SW was very helpful in class, SW had a level of empathy that very few have. Can’t believe this happened to her. So hard to see. Funeral was hard. She did enough in her short life to affect people who knew her for a long time. Matt wants justice, and says we've got to do better as a culture to help hurting people like SW did.
6. What is Defense doing now? At this point trying to answer the question why? Don’t have much to go on yet. Too early to set a defense, simply don’t know, trying to block Prosecution from getting more evidence, talking with C.W. trying to figure out what happened. There will be volumes of evidence. There is already a mountain of evidence. CW admitted that he killed SW. You have the evidence showing he did. The defense has a lot to overcome.

Thank you!!
 
Can you point to evidence he did it besides he lied on interview and dumped the bodies?
No snark intended and MOO, but what other evidence is necessary to make you have even the smallest doubt that CW is not telling the truth, as it seems your mind is made up that SW is the guilty party who killed her toddlers and that CW was a henpecked, bullied husband, who killed her and baby Niko for strangling the girls?
He admitted to murdering his pregnant wife and unborn son.
He admitted to burying his pregnant wife in a shallow grave where animals could access her body to eat.
He buried their bodies in vats of crude oil by his own admission.
He's cheated on SW with at least one AP that has been confirmed.
 
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Can you point to evidence he did it besides he lied on interview and dumped the bodies?
@gitana1 Has a pinned post on every thread. Here it is:

I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
 
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