Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

[BabyButterfly]

The coincidence of CW being the one person in the world we have evidence of, who is sane, sober and neurotypical, who "grieves" in such a bizarre and unheard of manner, but also had his kids murdered by his wife, is too great for me.

Agree.

 

[Seattle1]

I sincerely doubt this. I don't think he acted the way he did because he may have thought Niko was not his child. And I don't think SW was the type to cheat.

I agree with you, and believe CW killed off his entire family because he possesses all the known qualities (except suicide) of a "family annihilator:"

• 30's white male
• killing took place in month of August
• financial difficulties
• confessed (to one of the murders)

After reports that CW was allegedly having affairs with both men and women, it also seems to me that CW never felt comfortable as a father, husband, or a man; that he felt overwhelmed, trapped, and acted out in a very selfish way to form a new identity for himself.

CW had a good job, no criminal record (that's been reported), and could have sought a divorce, psychiatric help, or both -- he didn't have to kill his wife and children. I'm just sorry for the family of the victims that justice will likely take at least a couple of years.

 

[Gardener1850]

Alright, so I just tested the viability of fitting an average sized 4-year old into a hole with an 8inch diameter.

My niece is almost 5, but she’s a little on the small side, so I think it’s a decent comparison.

I used a ruler and string to measure her at her widest points.

The clear issue is the shoulders. She is about 9.5 inches from blade to blade.

Without knowing Bella’s exact size, it is difficult to determine how much force he would have had to exert in order to make her fit.

But he would have had to use force.

The autopsy results will obviously provide some answers here, as even if he angled her in some way, there would almost certainly be clear marks left on her body.

What, no photos/video of your test?
What did you use for the hole?
I think an aluminum pie tin with the center cut out would work well for demonstration purposes.

Question for the legal experts. If the girls were forced through an 8 inch hole, will the prosecution demonstrate this using dolls the size of the children to show how their bodies would have to be manipulated to get through the hole? Or do they do video re-creations usually? I can imagine that would be pretty jarring to the jury to have to see that. But I also feel like it's difficult to imagine. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

gitana1 said: ↑
Really? It's ridiculous to assume an innocent man whose kids were murdered would feel grief the next day? Why would that be ridiculous?

Help me understand, Tippy.

No - I don’t think that would be ridiculous.
jmo

@Tippy Lynn I agree with your response.
If CW's explanation turns out to be true, his behavior that was observed on camera and by his friends and family could be explained to indicate that CW had a PTSD reaction to an event.

Based on the description of Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) it is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.

There are a myriad list of symptoms of PTSD. I will highlight only a couple noted symptoms in attached article that could explain his behavior immediately after the crimes occurred and prior to his arrest.

Avoidance

• 
  
  
  • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
  • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood

• Feeling emotionally numb
• • Feeling detached from family and friends

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) - Symptoms and causes

CW could have also experienced a form of delayed grief or postponed grief and/or psychological denial defense mechanism.

 

[Jennifer17]

What, no photos/video of your test?
What did you use for the hole?
I think an aluminum pie tin with the center cut out would work well for demonstration purposes.

Question for the legal experts. If the girls were forced through an 8 inch hole, will the prosecution demonstrate this using dolls the size of the children to show how their bodies would have to be manipulated to get through the hole? Or do they do video re-creations usually? I can imagine that would be pretty jarring to the jury to have to see that. But I also feel like it's difficult to imagine. MOO.

A sheet of cardboard with an 8 inch opening would do.

 

[Jennifer17]

gitana1 said: ↑
Really? It's ridiculous to assume an innocent man whose kids were murdered would feel grief the next day? Why would that be ridiculous?

Help me understand, Tippy.



@Tippy Lynn I agree with your response.
If CW's explanation turns out to be true, his behavior that was observed on camera and by his friends and family could be explained to indicate that CW had a PTSD reaction to an event.

Based on the description of Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) it is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.

There are a myriad list of symptoms of PTSD. I will highlight only a couple noted symptoms in attached article that could explain his behavior immediately after the crimes occurred and prior to his arrest.

Avoidance

• 
  
  
  • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
  • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood

• Feeling emotionally numb
• • Feeling detached from family and friends

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) - Symptoms and causes

CW could also experienced a form of delayed grief or postponed grief and/or psychological denial defense mechanism.

It doesn't explain it at all to me.

 

[MassGuy]

What, no photos/video of your test?
What did you use for the hole?
I think an aluminum pie tin with the center cut out would work well for demonstration purposes.

Question for the legal experts. If the girls were forced through an 8 inch hole, will the prosecution demonstrate this using dolls the size of the children to show how their bodies would have to be manipulated to get through the hole? Or do they do video re-creations usually? I can imagine that would be pretty jarring to the jury to have to see that. But I also feel like it's difficult to imagine. MOO.

Ha! I didn’t even think of cardboard. Either way I would have run into an issue around the shoulders, as there’s no way they would have fit without a great deal of manipulation.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

gitana1 said: ↑
Really? It's ridiculous to assume an innocent man whose kids were murdered would feel grief the next day? Why would that be ridiculous?

Help me understand, Tippy.



@Tippy Lynn I agree with your response.
If CW's explanation turns out to be true, his behavior that was observed on camera and by his friends and family could be explained to indicate that CW had a PTSD reaction to an event.

Based on the description of Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) it is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.

There are a myriad list of symptoms of PTSD. I will highlight only a couple noted symptoms in attached article that could explain his behavior immediately after the crimes occurred and prior to his arrest.

Avoidance

• 
  
  
  • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
  • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood

• Feeling emotionally numb
• • Feeling detached from family and friends

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) - Symptoms and causes

CW could have also experienced a form of delayed grief or postponed grief and/or psychological denial defense mechanism.

Did it say anywhere that C.W. actually has PTSD? Link please? Thanks

 

[molly1255]

I wonder if he hd a secret account. A man died where my husband worked and the wife came in for the final check

She thought it was some kind of one time super death benefit. He had been lying to her for years about the money he made.

He could have it direct deposit into two accounts.

Tax time? Hm. Problem

I would not put something like that past CW. I do think he was able to pull the wool over SW's eyes for a long time and that required quite a bit of effort on his behalf.

That poor woman you mentioned. At a minimum, I hope she was able to work things out with the IRS. She was an innocent spouse who was defrauded by her husband. How awful.

 

[Jennifer17]

Did it say anywhere that C.W. actually has PTSD? Link please? Thanks

He may well develop it now, from the trauma of being charged with the murders of his whole family and being locked up.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

He may well develop it now, from the trauma of being charged with the murders of his whole family and being locked up.

Yeah feeling sorry for his sorry self.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Bluff said: ↑
gitana1 said: ↑
Really? It's ridiculous to assume an innocent man whose kids were murdered would feel grief the next day? Why would that be ridiculous?

Help me understand, Tippy.



@Tippy Lynn I agree with your response.
If CW's explanation turns out to be true, his behavior that was observed on camera and by his friends and family could be explained to indicate that CW had a PTSD reaction to an event.

Based on the description of Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) it is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.

There are a myriad list of symptoms of PTSD. I will highlight only a couple noted symptoms in attached article that could explain his behavior immediately after the crimes occurred and prior to his arrest.

Avoidance

• 
  
  
  • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
  • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood

• Feeling emotionally numb
• • Feeling detached from family and friends

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) - Symptoms and causes

CW could have also experienced a form of delayed grief or postponed grief and/or psychological denial defense mechanism.

Did it say anywhere that C.W. actually has PTSD? Link please? Thanks

@Ilovemy3boys there is no link to provide as the public does not have access currently to CW's psychological evaluations if and when they are completed. Note that I stated in my post "could be explained to indicate" CW's behavior and reactions as seen after the crimes and before his incarceration.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

Bluff said: ↑
gitana1 said: ↑
Really? It's ridiculous to assume an innocent man whose kids were murdered would feel grief the next day? Why would that be ridiculous?

Help me understand, Tippy.



@Tippy Lynn I agree with your response.
If CW's explanation turns out to be true, his behavior that was observed on camera and by his friends and family could be explained to indicate that CW had a PTSD reaction to an event.

Based on the description of Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) it is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.

There are a myriad list of symptoms of PTSD. I will highlight only a couple noted symptoms in attached article that could explain his behavior immediately after the crimes occurred and prior to his arrest.

Avoidance

• 
  
  
  • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
  • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood

• Feeling emotionally numb
• • Feeling detached from family and friends

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) - Symptoms and causes

CW could have also experienced a form of delayed grief or postponed grief and/or psychological denial defense mechanism.



@Ilovemy3boys there is no link to provide as the public does not have access currently to CW's psychological evaluations if and when they are completed. Note that I stated in my post "could be explained to indicate" CW's behavior and reactions as seen after the crimes and before his incarceration.

I think the only thing he’s feeling right now is self-pity. He’s sorry that he got caught and thankfully his actions caught up with him before he continued his lies.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

scandinavian girl, how many times we feel, "I wish I did this, what if I did this", thinking we may have prevented the 'departure of a loved one'.
It is after the fact, sometimes for years, these thoughts are with us.
I would think, NUA is also wondering, 'how could she have intervened earlier'. Perhaps SW confided to NUA about CW, and the marriage, and what NUA could have suggested to prevent this revolting outcome.
Those thoughts may be constantly there.
MOO.

When I see the grief and Devastation among her family, I think the same thing. They have been given a life sentence of regret as to what they could have done possibly?

Moo

 

[Gardener1850]

Did it say anywhere that C.W. actually has PTSD? Link please? Thanks

He doesn't have PTSD and IMO the very suggestion he could have it is offensive to everyone who has ever REALLY had PTSD. MOO.

 

[Jennifer17]

Bluff said: ↑
gitana1 said: ↑
Really? It's ridiculous to assume an innocent man whose kids were murdered would feel grief the next day? Why would that be ridiculous?

Help me understand, Tippy.



@Tippy Lynn I agree with your response.
If CW's explanation turns out to be true, his behavior that was observed on camera and by his friends and family could be explained to indicate that CW had a PTSD reaction to an event.

Based on the description of Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) it is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.

There are a myriad list of symptoms of PTSD. I will highlight only a couple noted symptoms in attached article that could explain his behavior immediately after the crimes occurred and prior to his arrest.

Avoidance

• 
  
  
  • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
  • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood

• Feeling emotionally numb
• • Feeling detached from family and friends

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) - Symptoms and causes

CW could have also experienced a form of delayed grief or postponed grief and/or psychological denial defense mechanism.



@Ilovemy3boys there is no link to provide as the public does not have access currently to CW's psychological evaluations if and when they are completed. Note that I stated in my post "could be explained to indicate" CW's behavior and reactions as seen after the crimes and before his incarceration.

His demeanor and behaviour could also be explained by the fact that he is not only a cheat and a murderer but a coward trying to cover up his crimes.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

He doesn't have PTSD and IMO the very suggestion he could have it is offensive to everyone who has ever REALLY had PTSD. MOO.

Exactly.

 

[MassGuy]

Bluff said: ↑
gitana1 said: ↑
Really? It's ridiculous to assume an innocent man whose kids were murdered would feel grief the next day? Why would that be ridiculous?

Help me understand, Tippy.



@Tippy Lynn I agree with your response.
If CW's explanation turns out to be true, his behavior that was observed on camera and by his friends and family could be explained to indicate that CW had a PTSD reaction to an event.

Based on the description of Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) it is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.

There are a myriad list of symptoms of PTSD. I will highlight only a couple noted symptoms in attached article that could explain his behavior immediately after the crimes occurred and prior to his arrest.

Avoidance

• 
  
  
  • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
  • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood

• Feeling emotionally numb
• • Feeling detached from family and friends

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) - Symptoms and causes

CW could have also experienced a form of delayed grief or postponed grief and/or psychological denial defense mechanism.



@Ilovemy3boys there is no link to provide as the public does not have access currently to CW's psychological evaluations if and when they are completed. Note that I stated in my post "could be explained to indicate" CW's behavior and reactions as seen after the crimes and before his incarceration.

It doesn’t explain his lies. It doesn’t explain stuffing the lifeless bodies of his children into tiny, oil filled holes.

“My PTSD made me commit a hideous coverup,” doesn’t fly.

Lack of emotion is one thing, but something like that (PTSD), doesn’t explain everything else.

 

[nwmouse]

I think the only thing he’s feeling right now is self-pity. He’s sorry that he got caught and thankfully his actions caught up with him before he continued his lies.

I think he's experiencing self-pity, fear and deep regret for his unforgivable and irreversible actions - as well as self-righteous indignation that people across the world don't "understand" him. Call the waaaahmbulance, CW!

I'll bet he wishes he could turn back the clock, get a divorce and pay child support like a normal father, and move on with his life, letting SW and the children move on with theirs.

The act of murder is so terribly FINAL, I don't know how he can live with himself.

And its only going to get worse for him as more facts surface, ME's reports come in etc.

 

[roteone]

Yeah feeling sorry for his sorry self.

CW feeling sorry for himself is beyond depraved. I can't understand where he thinks he's got the right to be feeling sorry. Even what he is saying is true, IMO it is not. He's one messed up man. Wait till he can read all the fan mail he gets. (can he get it in his prison?) He'll think he's a rock star.