Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

[Tippy Lynn]

I've got one foot on the ground (SW side) and one *ss cheek barely on on the fence. The only thing keeping me from jumping off the fence is "what if". I know the "what if" is very slim and everything CW has done and said in the aftermath are absolutely horrific, but I can't seem to make myself jump. I'm second guessing my thoughts and I've been asking myself if I'm putting too much weight into innocent until proven guilty. I don't know, it's really frustrating and I'm anxious for more information to come out.
jmo

 

[gitana1]

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.



There was another post originally in there but isn't now, which may possibly have added to any confusion.

Ok. Maybe that's why it is hard to follow.

Here is a question. Do you believe that CW was scared of getting caught or just scared because of what he witnessed? And if the latter, do you think grinning and giggling like he did is a typical display of feelings of horror?

Or do you think he was merely "nervous" along with feeling grief?

Finally, do you think it's reasonable that a person feeling overpowering grief, plus fright or nerves, would only display one of those emotions?

Do you think it's logical that the most powerful emotion would be totally hidden while only the more minor emotions of nervousness would emerge?

If so, why?

Do you think a person who isn't sociopathic, narcissistic or psychopathic would feel nervousness more than grief?

 

[roteone]

I'm still thinking he may have already told the girlfriend that SW had already left, and they were already separated. That may be why he deleted the FB when he did. Also might explain why he felt he had to do it that weekend. Jmo

Excellent point imo.

 

[MsBetsy]

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.



There was another post originally in there but isn't now, whose absence may possibly have added to any confusion.

Confusion about what? I thought I understood before, but what is the missing post in regard to?

 

[tmar]

If I knew my hubby was cheating and we were heading for a divorce I would tell my bf everything I think. If I was knowingly walking into a stressful situation I would tell my bf. I would also, as a bf check up on my friend and call the police if I couldn't get ahold of her, knowing the volatile situation at hand.

You certainly would be a wonderful friend to have: who goes all the way to help.
Yes, telling those close to you, about how you feel, may be a 'life saver'.
NUA on the stand, may reveal a great deal, about conversations with SW.

 

[Amonet]

How do they discard it? It is also environmental hazard, regardless of how you do it.

I have no idea, but sometimes oil has to be disposed of and I guess they have their ways.

My point was that the entire tanks had become unsellable. Three months to pump the oil into the tanks, tens of thousands of dollars worth or oil, before the cost of disposing of it. Aside from having an employee accused of such a heinous crime, he cost his employers a lot, and imo he fully deserved to be fired.

And in future another employee's going to have to work at those tanks. Even if they hadn't personally met Shanann and the girls, someone's going to have to shut out their emotions to see it only as an oil storage tank facility and just deal with it on that level.

 

[roteone]

It will be intereAsting to see what the AP says, won't it?

Absolutely

 

[rainynights]

I've got one foot on the ground (SW side) and one *ss cheek barely on on the fence. The only thing keeping me from jumping off the fence is "what if". I know the "what if" is very slim and everything CW has done and said in the aftermath are absolutely horrific, but I can't seem to make myself jump. I'm second guessing my thoughts and I've been asking myself if I'm putting too much weight into innocent until proven guilty. I don't know, it's really frustrating and I'm anxious for more information to come out.
jmo

I admit that I, too, had periods of "what if" early on - albeit, a microscopic "what if," - it was still there, based on theories discussed here by those who believed CW may have a compelling argument in defense of what he has confessed to.

Early on, I challenged myself to put together a theory based on CW's version of events. After what seemed like hours of going down a rabbit hole, I realized that it was utter nonsense. In short, CW seemed to be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Based on some of the accounts we've been hearing from those in Colorado who knew him, it seems as though he duped many over the years, and IMO, based on that, I believe he thought he'd have no problem duping them all again.

He just didn't count on the relentless and undying love of a friend, and the determination of a community, LE, and the media that would be working together to bring SW and the girls home. JMO.

 

[gitana1]

I've got one foot on the ground (SW side) and one *ss cheek barely on on the fence. The only thing keeping me from jumping off the fence is "what if". I know the "what if" is very slim and everything CW has done and said in the aftermath are absolutely horrific, but I can't seem to make myself jump. I'm second guessing my thoughts and I've been asking myself if I'm putting too much weight into innocent until proven guilty. I don't know, it's really frustrating and I'm anxious for more information to come out.
jmo

You know I think it's valid for someone to think and say that "hey, I want to see all the evidence before I make up my mind." I think that's fair and reasonable.

What I get confused by, however, is a rejection or excusing of what I feel to be sort of basic logic or by a dismissal of a large volume of cirrcumstantial evidence while weighting unsubstantiated speculation, gossip and out of context small snips of a person's life as just as valuable or more valuable as the voluminous circumstantial evidence.

That's where I get baffled.

I mean I get thinking, "Okay. This looks very bad for him. But perhaps there are alternate explanations. Let me explore them and wait to see what else comes out. Is there anything that could possibly point to SW as the initial perp? Is it possible that x, y, z shows hints of possible mental disturbance or anger issues or domestic violence? Let me compare what I'm seeing, in context, with other cases or see if anything matches with the literature, studies, what any expert has said in the past." Etc.

What I don't get is "Both sides look equally viable."

There's no evidence of any kind to substantiate his claims except his own allegation. Nothing. But there's is a lot to substantiate and justify the charges against CW in this case, IMO.

That's just my feeling. I'm trying to understand. But I'm not getting there so far.

 

[gitana1]

Absolutely

I wish she'd make some sort of Gloria Allred inspired statement. But I'm sure the prosecution would rather she keeps her mouth shut.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder if Flourish might be concerned that people who have less 'regular' reactions might be considered to by hiding something nefarious? Things like being numb and not crying, going to the funeral and just staring straight ahead and no tears, talking to people as though nothing happened, seemingly blocking out the painful event. I think that can happen to people and the tears stage doesn't hit them until weeks or months later.

The way I see it is that those people aren't going to give interviews like CW did. He showed so many deception indicators, it wasn't that he was in shock and disbelief and just had a different way of grieving, it was that he was purposely lying. Not that he was trying to fool himself that nothing had happened, but that he was trying to fool everyone else into thinking nothing happened.

Even if some of us would look at one of the former people doing an interview and say, "odd behavior!" I would certainly hope those body language and statement analysis experts would catch that something's not right, and it's not that they're showing guilt indicators but that the shock of learning of the death of their loved one is just affecting them in a very different way. I don't really think they'd then go on to give two-dozen deception indicators in a single media interview.

We discussed in an earlier thread that some people have something go wrong when they hear bad news or go to a funeral and they laugh. But a few people who've experienced that agreed that the laughing isn't like a normal smile, it's a sort of manic, out of control thing that you'd feel deeply confused over your body's reaction, deeply embarrassed. It shouldn't look like that Peterson killer whose face was covered in duper's delight.

Yes, and there have been many experts that have given their opinion and analysis of his behavior, and all have come to the same conclusion concerning his lack of remorse, grief, and many indications of deception. It does not even take an expert to see any of this, imo , because CW is not a very convincing actor.

 

[tmar]

Agreed. Deleting his FB is also a big 'time' in my eyes.

Also, wasn't he supposed to be promoting Thrive.
He gets an income from this, and SW and CW's use of FB must have been a 'money earner' to get their message across.
Was he already planning?

 

[pocketaccent]

I've got one foot on the ground (SW side) and one *ss cheek barely on on the fence. The only thing keeping me from jumping off the fence is "what if". I know the "what if" is very slim and everything CW has done and said in the aftermath are absolutely horrific, but I can't seem to make myself jump. I'm second guessing my thoughts and I've been asking myself if I'm putting too much weight into innocent until proven guilty. I don't know, it's really frustrating and I'm anxious for more information to come out.
jmo

We have

just for you whenever you are ready to jump, Tippy

 

[k-mac]

I didn't cry the night my son died. Some kind of adrenaline kicked in and I was just moving on fumes. However, some friends came over to my house and started cleaning and stuff. Two friends cooked us dinner. I mostly sat in the bed and stared at the TV. When my cooking friend came up and asked me for a potato peeler, I finally burst into tears. Why? Because we didn't HAVE a potato peeler and I was embarrassed to admit that I just used a little knife.

I didn't do television interviews, but I did plenty of other interviews: with KODA for organ donation, with the newspaper, with LE, the coroner, and the countless friends who filed in one after the other to help. For the most part, I was composed, steady-voiced, and articulate. That is, until someone said something off the wall.

I yelled at KODA when, during the interview, they asked me how often my son drank alcohol and smoked. (He was a small child.) I yelled so loudly at them, and used so many choice words, that the police officer standing next to me actually chuckled out loud. It's not something I would do under other circumstances.

Yeah, grief does weird stuff to you.

On the day he died, I had dressed with care, since I was getting ready to go to my book signing when I discovered him. The shirt and skirt combo was one I'd purchased the week before. He'd been with me in the store. It was a whole day of us together. At one point someone, who didn't know what else to say, told me that my outfit was "cute." I felt like I'd been punched in the gut because it immediately reminded me of how much fun we'd had on the day I'd bought it. And how we'd never be able to do that again. I honestly can't imagine preening to the camera, laughing a little, and talking about said outfit like CW did about his T-shirt.

The couple that came over fixed my favorite meal: fried salmon patties, macaroni and tomato juice, mashed potatoes, and cornbread (I'm a southern mountain girl). It was all gorgeously cooked. And I took one bite and threw it all up and had to go back to bed.

I slept all right, but only after they dosed me with lethal levels of Tylenol PM. I hated sleeping. Hated it because there was always this second upon awaking in which I'd forget about what happened. For just a second or two, life would feel "normal" again. And then reality would come sliding in, hitting me in the head like a brick. It was absolute torture.

There are other child loss parents on this board. I am certain that while the details of our experiences may vary, they probably have similar stories to mine.

im so terribly sorry for your loss.
your post touched me deeply and wanted thank you for your extremely true account of true grit shock grief.
its like a feeling hard to explain but like your universe has been pushed off its axis......its there...….and its functioning.....but its all up.
and very very slowly your mind catches up and it starts to turn and get back on its axis.

as I said in a post before its not what someone says in a crisis its the depth of loss you see it you feel it and it makes you just wanna hug that person and make it all go away.

chris watts did not make me feel like hugging him.....his I like these t shirts laugh made me wanna punch his head in.
did shanann buy you that shirt on amazon or did she bring it home with her at 2am from her trip?????
and there I think is his answer.
his awkward acknowledgement about the shirt tells me the last thing she did was give him a damn tshirt and he is wearing it ...brand new baby for the cameras.
sick *advertiser censored*.

jmo

 

[roteone]

I wish she'd make some sort of Gloria Allred inspired statement. But I'm sure the prosecution would rather she keeps her mouth shut.

Not sure who Gloria Allred is, (will have a google ) absolutely re the prosecution. I am very curious about the insight we might ascertain from her.

 

[gitana1]

I do not know about all of them, but Ross Harris was an obviously concerning person to me. I do not trust anyone who is so religious. It screams red flag to me. I realize not everyone will agree, but that is MOO.

Scott Peterson was so in love with himself.

I know zero about the others.

From the little we saw of CW, it was concerning to me because he seemed wooden in the pie video, the Christmas video, and he definitely upset at the checkers.

He did not want the little one squirted in the squirt video, but he did not have the ability to stop it.

To me it indicated that he would be upset with his life. But it did not show the depravity that he has.

We may hear more about his life or he may be allowed to plea . Then we will have to wait for the book when an author traces his life. I am sure he will love the attention.

Are there any authors like Ann Rule? People responded before but there did not seem to be a possibilty out there.

Hmm. What makes you think he lacked the ability to respond?

We know the guy had agency. I mean he had an affair. He refused to eat his wife's carefully prepared meals.

But so you think that if there were signs this man was arrogant that might be a sign? It's possible. But no one who knew scott Peterson prior to the murder described him that way. Not one. He was excessively charming and conciliatory. Not known to be a braggart or even vain to my knowledge.

As to being religious, about a third of the country is super religious. But most aren't depraved.

 

[flourish]

We have

just for you whenever you are ready to jump, Tippy

(I slid off my fence last night and even got splinters, but no cupcake)

 

[gitana1]

Agreed. And it's not just "grief" over his lost family that he wasn't showing. He confessed to killing Shanann. If his wife had MURDERED his two beloved daughters, "those kids are my life" - then he was also highly skilled at hiding anger, disbelief, shock, despair. How could he find his wife in a rage murdering their daughters, carry out killing his wife, and dispose of all three bodies in gruesome ways - without showing ANY indication that the events of the previous hours had traumatized him. No shock, regret, bewilderment, or horror at what his wife had done and his own response to kill his spouse. That is so much more than just not showing outward signs of grief. I have a hard time understanding how those events would not be absolutely traumatizing. JMO, but I don't know how anyone could possibly stifle all that unless it was deliberate.

Stifle ALL that but not stifle...nervousness.

That's just illogical.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

You know I think it's valid for someone to think and say that "hey, I want to see all the evidence before I make up my mind." I think that's fair and reasonable.

What I get confused by, however, is a rejection or excusing of what I feel to be sort of basic logic or by a dismissal of a large volume of cirrcumstantial evidence while weighting unsubstantiated speculation, gossip and out of context small snips of a person's life as just as valuable or more valuable as the voluminous circumstantial evidence.

That's where I get baffled.

I mean I get thinking, "Okay. This looks very bad for him. But perhaps there are alternate explanations. Let me explore them and wait to see what else comes out. Is there anything that could possibly point to SW as the initial perp? Is it possible that x, y, z shows hints of possible mental disturbance or anger issues or domestic violence? Let me compare what I'm seeing, in context, with other cases or see if anything matches with the literature, studies, what any expert has said in the past." Etc.

What I don't get is "Both sides look equally viable."

There's no evidence of any kind to substantiate his claims except his own allegation. Nothing. But there's is a lot to substantiate and justify the charges against CW in this case, IMO.

That's just my feeling. I'm trying to understand. But I'm not getting there so far.

I don't get everyones way of thinking either. However, I do respect others opinions, even when I don't agree with them. I certainly don't agree with both sides looking equally viable right now, but that may change depending on what evidence comes out.
jmo

 

[gitana1]

Thanks! (I hope you know I was being sarcastic

Yes!!