Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34

[The Saint]

I've always wondered about that too...

I think the posters say that because they are trying to show the mod that they weren't intentionally trying to violate the TOS.

 

[gitana1]

Colorado may be in the middle of the country, but psychographics In Denver metro are more like California than the midwest. If the trial gets moved to a rural area, the jury dynamics will change completely.

Interesting.

 

[The Saint]

[

I do recall reading an article that stated a neighbor heard the dog barking in the garage on Monday. I believe this came out of the canvas of the neighborhood that LE did on Monday night.

I'm also very interested in hearing the testimony of NUA and LE who did the well person check plus hearing testimony from LE regarding the details of his confession.

I had never specifically heard that the barking was coming from the garage. Is that a new development? It seems like the cement of the garage floor would make Dieter's bark even louder and give it an echo effect.

 

[molly1255]

That’s a grim likelihood. I didn’t even think about that. You’d think that’s the way he did it, feet first.

If either of them didn’t fit, he’d have to push down on their heads and shoulders.

Up close and personal, like the murders were.

Horrific.

It is just so unbelievably hideous and it something only a monster would be capable of doing, IMO.

I know we don't have answers on a lot of things, but one thing that I'm extremely curious about is SW's shallow grave. It is ultimately what led to his arrest, as it was captured by the drone, along with the bed sheet. I think this evidence is what backed him into a corner and he at least confessed to murdering SW/Nico.

Do you think the shallow grave for SW was something he intended to be permanent? Or do you think he was going to come back and do something else to hide her body?

 

[Seattle1]

What did they do with the autopsies of the movie theatre shooter’s victims in Aurora CO a few years ago?

If I recall correctly, there were no disclosures until the trial. There were also many questions about the mental competency of the shooter right up to the trial date when agreed he was mentally ill, but legally sane. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

In my experience with friends on either coast, all the states between New York and California are "flyover states." But you're right about we folks in the south. We do take these things very seriously.

I did some unofficial crowdsourcing from a lot of the men in my town (ages 25-45, mostly farmers and factory workers, high school graduates or less, most with children, landowners, pet owners, married at least once but some multiple times, the majority with 4-wheel drives, and Caucasian because we sorely lack diversity here). Out of the 18 I asked, all of them knew at least a little bit about the case, none of them believe CW's story, and every one of them was dead set on "getting justice for them babies."

My area has a huge drug problem, is one of the poorest parts of the country, has a high unemployment rate, has a significant teen pregnancy and high school drop out rate, and more than half of the people are on some state or federal government program. People around here will totally cover for their family and friends, hide criminal activity, and actively lie to law enforcement without batting an eye. When it comes to crimes against children, however, all bets are off. It doesn't matter who you are-family, family friend, or the most likable person in town-they take child abuse and child death VERY seriously. Shoot another person over drug money? Eh, it happens. Accidentally run over someone while you're drinking? Oops! Harm a child? No way.

I've actually been surprised at how seriously our juries take such cases around here. You might think that in such a "mountain justice" area, they'd find the person guilty without even looking at the evidence if the crime is bad enough, but they don't. Like I said, they take crimes against children VERY seriously. Half the town may get arrested for public intoxication during our one and only high school's Homecoming, but when it comes to trials that involve children, every single one of us is all Law and Order: SVU. It's an odd place. I like it.

Very interesting. And a very illuminating description.
I think Colorado is changing, though. By the proximity to California, it is becoming one of "spillover lands" - because so much wealth is accrued in California and land is expensive, everything starts moving in that direction.

For a while, it was moving North, towards WA, but now western WA is becoming expensive, and another drive and movement is towards ID. This is what I have observed. That the "drive East" is including even WY I only read.

Interestingly, what you tell about kids, I heard from a young man of (not my) ethnic group who spent many years in jail. A very nice guy, btw. He said that in jail, they hated rapists and those who somehow abused or killed kids. "He walks in - show me your papers! Murderer? No problem! Rapist? That is serious".

 

[MassGuy]

It is just so unbelievably hideous and it something only a monster would be capable of doing, IMO.

I know we don't have answers on a lot of things, but one thing that I'm extremely curious about is SW's shallow grave. It is ultimately what led to his arrest, as it was captured by the drone, along with the bed sheet. I think this evidence is what backed him into a corner and he at least confessed to murdering SW/Nico.

Do you think the shallow grave for SW was something he intended to be permanent? Or do you think he was going to come back and do something else to hide her body?

In regards to him planning to return and hide SW’s body better, there really is no way of knowing, or even forming much of an educated guess here, as we simply don’t have enough information to do that.

One would assume that he knew these tanks, and knew all along that SW wouldn’t fit. It stands to reason that he planned to bury her, atleast at the point in which he was driving to the dump site.

Maybe he was planning on initially digging a deeper grave, and the hardness of the dirt thwarted his efforts.

Karma I guess.

 

[Gardener1850]

Just imagine .. He had to put them down feet first, as he held their arms up high, looking at their contorted faces, as he twisted and shoved their little bodies into total darkness.

Then closed the lid. Twice.

That's right, we don't understand you, CW.

It's horrible, but now I'm wondering if maybe he did NOT look at their faces.
Maybe he could not stand to look at their faces.
Maybe he got a trash bag from his truck.
Maybe he put the bag over the child who was stuck/wedged in the thief hatch and then took off his shoe (to cause less damage) and stepped on the child's head to push her through.
Maybe the wind caught the bag after that and he didn't bother to go chasing it.
And that could be why they retrieved a bag from the scene with his bare footprint on it.
MOO.

 

[katydid23]

In regards to him planning to return and hide SW’s body better, there really is no way of knowing, or even forming much of an educated guess here, as we simply don’t have enough information to do that.
One would assume that he knew these tanks, and knew all along that SW wouldn’t fit. It stands to reason that he planned to bury her, atleast at the point in which he was driving to the dump site.
Maybe he was planning on initially digging a deeper grave, and the hardness of the dirt thwarted his efforts.

Karma I guess.

I think it was the bolded, above. I think it was harder than he thought and he ran out of time. And like you said, KARMA came to town.

 

[MollyDDD]

The bankruptcy was filed in the summer of 2015, so in all probability, I would imagine they were struggling after having the two children so close together. I believe that the Chiropractor costs were quite minor and were prior to SW's neck surgery.

I didn’t know she had neck surgery but I did see a photo of her with a neck brace and wondered how she managed to do her hair and makeup so nicely with a neck brace.

 

[mtnlites]

Very interesting. And a very illuminating description.
I think Colorado is changing, though. By the proximity to California, it is becoming one of "spillover lands" - because so much wealth is accrued in California and land is expensive, everything starts moving in that direction.

For a while, it was moving North, towards WA, but now western WA is becoming expensive, and another drive and movement is towards ID. This is what I have observed. That the "drive East" is including even WY I only read.

Interestingly, what you tell about kids, I heard from a young man of (not my) ethnic group who spent many years in jail. A very nice guy, btw. He said that in jail, they hated rapists and those who somehow abused or killed kids. "He walks in - show me your papers! Murderer? No problem! Rapist? That is serious".

What I think is interesting is that, in my area at least, it is the men who are most appalled by crimes against children. I know meth cookers, thieves, and heroin runners who would blow a gasket if they heard about someone hurting a child. And it doesn't have to be their child. There is a moral code there. Granted a confusing one, but one nevertheless. I do think this is why CW confessed to killing her but not the girls.

 

[Colorado303]

Sure wish you were sitting in my kitchen drinking a cup of coffee with me, so I could look in your eyes when you say that!

 

[Charlot123]

It's horrible, but now I'm wondering if maybe he did NOT look at their faces.
Maybe he could not stand to look at their faces.
Maybe he got a trash bag from his truck.
Maybe he put the bag over the child who was stuck/wedged in the thief hatch and then took off his shoe (to cause less damage) and stepped on the child's head to push her through.
Maybe the wind caught the bag after that and he didn't bother to go chasing it.
And that could be why they retrieved a bag from the scene with his bare footprint on it.
MOO.

Don't count on it. If he could squeeze the lives out of own daughters, keep their bodies in the house, surely he could look into their faces. He gave the world his biggest smile the next day! And in general, who cares?

 

[TitoTaco]

Colorado may be in the middle of the country, but psychographics In Denver metro are more like California than the midwest. If the trial gets moved to a rural area, the jury dynamics will change completely.

Rural Colorado gal here. If it comes here.... game over.

 

[Seattle1]

It is just so unbelievably hideous and it something only a monster would be capable of doing, IMO.

I know we don't have answers on a lot of things, but one thing that I'm extremely curious about is SW's shallow grave. It is ultimately what led to his arrest, as it was captured by the drone, along with the bed sheet. I think this evidence is what backed him into a corner and he at least confessed to murdering SW/Nico.

Do you think the shallow grave for SW was something he intended to be permanent? Or do you think he was going to come back and do something else to hide her body?

I don't think we will ever know the truth about CW's plans. It's possible he had another well site in mind for SW where he could use the larger manway to hide her body, and ran out of time. If not karma stopping him, I don't think CW was very good at using a shovel. MOO...

 

[PrimeSuspect]

RE: the sealing of the autopsy report. (sorry if it's been posted before)

From this article it states,

In Monday’s motion, District Attorney Michael Rourke cited the “great deal of interest” surrounding the case as a reason for not releasing the autopsy reports, saying that the information contained in them “will be critical evidence at the trial.”

Rourke said publicly releasing Shanann, Bella and Celeste Watts’ cause of death could result in tainting witnesses and impacting the jury pool.
Prosecutors ask judge to block public release of autopsy reports in Chris Watts case


But in this article, not related to Watts case, it's to do with minors -

Proposed legislation that would bar the public in Colorado — on privacy grounds — from viewing autopsy reports on the deaths of minors is prompting resistance from open-records advocates who say it will make it harder to uncover mistakes in the child-protection system.
The opponents, including media representatives, point to past reporting projects that relied in part on autopsy reports to hold child-protection officials accountable for failing to protect abused children who died. They also say Senate Bill 223 could complicate efforts to shed light on other issues, such as the opioid epidemic, or fatal shootings of juveniles by police and even potential flaws in police homicide investigations.
Open-records advocates say bill to seal minors' autopsy reports could obscure failings in child-protection system

Follow this link to the list -

Autopsy Reports Death Of A Minor | Colorado General Assembly The bill specifies that an autopsy report prepared in connection with the death of a minor is confidential and may be disclosed by the county coroner to any other person or entity only in accordance with certain exceptions. Under the bill, the coroner or his or her designee may only provide a copy of the autopsy report prepared in connection with the death of a minor to:

 

[MassGuy]

It's horrible, but now I'm wondering if maybe he did NOT look at their faces.
Maybe he could not stand to look at their faces.
Maybe he got a trash bag from his truck.
Maybe he put the bag over the child who was stuck/wedged in the thief hatch and then took off his shoe (to cause less damage) and stepped on the child's head to push her through.
Maybe the wind caught the bag after that and he didn't bother to go chasing it.
And that could be why they retrieved a bag from the scene with his bare footprint on it.
MOO.

I doubt it. A guy who could strangle his kids to death, dump their bodies in oil tanks, and calmly lie about it, is as cold as they get.

I think the trash bags and bedsheet were simply brought along to conceal the bodies.

I don’t think he had any qualms about seeing them in death, as he literally watched them die a mere couple of hours before.

This was business.

 

[MsBetsy]

It's horrible, but now I'm wondering if maybe he did NOT look at their faces.
Maybe he could not stand to look at their faces.
Maybe he got a trash bag from his truck.
Maybe he put the bag over the child who was stuck/wedged in the thief hatch and then took off his shoe (to cause less damage) and stepped on the child's head to push her through.
Maybe the wind caught the bag after that and he didn't bother to go chasing it.
And that could be why they retrieved a bag from the scene with his bare footprint on it.
MOO.

I don't think the child's head would need to be pushed or forced as there would be plenty of room for the head to go through. What I am wondering about is the shoulders, and am assuming rigor mortis had not set in, or he would not have been able to manipulate the bodies. So it would seem that he did not kill the kids before SW got home. If he killed them before he knew about the delay, he may have had more trouble getting them through. Its hard to say.

 

[MollyDDD]

So to give you an idea of 8" size holes...here's a cake maker with 8"rounds...I can't imagine a 2yo would fit much less a 4yo IMO They are basically the size of your outstretched hand.

Has it been determined that the tanks where the girls were found had only an 8” diameter opening?

 

[gitana1]

It's horrible, but now I'm wondering if maybe he did NOT look at their faces.
Maybe he could not stand to look at their faces.
Maybe he got a trash bag from his truck.
Maybe he put the bag over the child who was stuck/wedged in the thief hatch and then took off his shoe (to cause less damage) and stepped on the child's head to push her through.
Maybe the wind caught the bag after that and he didn't bother to go chasing it.
And that could be why they retrieved a bag from the scene with his bare footprint on it.
MOO.

Yup. That's been my horrific thought lately. I hope it's not true.