CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[Eclipse]

delete

 

[CGW]

Hi all .. been following this case, first time posting on it, but apologies if this has already been hashed out, I'm making notes. .. where was it stated the girls' beds were not slept in? Did I read that or no? Does that mean beds were still made up, covers on? If so, didn't CW state in his "story" that SW killed the girls, he saw one of the girls laying in bed, blue in the face? If that was true, wouldn't the beds look as though they had been slept in as opposed to not?

Thanks to anyone who can comment!

From what I have heard and read, the beds were messy and not made up. NA knew that was weird b/c SW was OCD about making beds and having everything tidy. SW would have made those beds that morning if it was a normal morning.

 

[FlossyMay]

HLN was knocking on the door of the woman everyone suspects is the mistress, she has not been named. I think it will be in the MSM soon, she can't hide forever. I do feel bad for her, even if she did know he was married, I think she was horrified by the murder and went to LE right away.

RSBM

I don't know about that. I cannot see myself running to the cops. First off, I would be so embarrassed and also frightened and downright sick to my stomach. I would have to think things through for awhile. Especially if I were married, which I am. IDK if she is or not, but it's possible. I think coworkers ratted them out and then the cops went to her, but that is only my opinion.

 

[esmerelda]

I guess CW scenario is possible, but the way he disposed of SW makes it impossible IMO. During interviews he acts like he knows nothing, HOW?? Why?? What could he possibly be thinking, they will never find the girls, but there SW is with sheets blowing in the wind. This boggles the mind. Sheets in garbage can, while he stands out there calmly showing off shirt he really likes, cadaver dogs barking. I'm a mess this morning over this!!

 

[CM0709]

I guess CW scenario is possible, but the way he disposed of SW makes it impossible IMO. During interviews he acts like he knows nothing, HOW?? Why?? What could he possibly be thinking, they will never find the girls, but there SW is with sheets blowing in the wind. This boggles the mind. Sheets in garbage can, while he stands out there calmly showing off shirt he really likes, cadaver dogs barking. I'm a mess this morning over this!!

I think the scenario is impossible because if you see someone strangling your children you don't strangle them back. You punch them in the face. You throw them across the room. You bash their head in. Especially a big strong guy. Anything to get them to stop and strangling back is not a defensive move.

 

[Eclipse]

I think the scenario is impossible because if you see someone strangling your children you don't strangle them back. You punch them in the face. You throw them across the room. You bash their head in. Especially a big strong guy. Anything to get them to stop and strangling back is not a defensive move.

Exactly! You do something fast to stop what is going on and to check on the girls quickly and then call for medical help- because most parents don't want to believe their kids are dead and beyond help in such a spur of the moment incident. They want an ambulance.

 

[kebdal23]

I think the scenario is impossible because if you see someone strangling your children you don't strangle them back. You punch them in the face. You throw them across the room. You bash their head in. Especially a big strong guy. Anything to get them to stop and strangling back is not a defensive move.

Also the probability of two people having enough mental defect to be capable of strangling someone (a loved one!) to death in the same family is very unlikely.

 

[CFlo]

Also, if the bizarre scenario CW lays out actually happened, the probable thing to happen would be to knock SW down or hit her on the back of the head- something fast- in order to get to the children without interruption. How could he know immediately that they were beyond hope?

He couldn’t.
Also, if her intent as one person here (besides CW states), why was her phone found in the loft area that sits between the master and the child rooms. Because she took it with her to strangle the girls? Um, no.

 

[NothingClever]

This is going to be a long post on my theory. I think the bed sheets are going to do CW in. This is what I believe happened: SW gets home at 1:48. She leaves her belongings downstairs to deal with in the morning. She’s exhausted after a delayed flight, etc… She goes upstairs and straight to her bedroom. I don’t think she risks waking the kids in the middle of the night by going in to kiss them when she can see them on the monitor. (I personally don’t want to risk waking my kids at that hour knowing they won’t get back to sleep). She had no reason to believe C.W. wouldn’t have taken good care of them as he had done on all of her previous work trips. I do believe that the kids were alive at this point (I’ll explain later). I don’t think a big conversation happened between SW and CW.....maybe just a groggy hello if C.W. even bothered to act awake. I think C.W. is a coward and waited for SW to fall asleep before strangling her on their bed….probably around 3:00am.(FYI…she should be wearing pajamas when the ME report comes out). After C.W. kills SW, he wraps her in the fitted sheet she is laying on deceased on the bed. To be able to do this he has to toss off all of the top bedding to be able to peel those fitted sheet corners off of the foot of the mattress.
Hence the pile of bedding found on the floor by LE. With the most difficult murder out of the way, he proceeded to kill the “easier” victims. He likely placed them in bags because they were small. SW wouldn’t fit in a bag. I think killing all 3 and wrapping/bagging them up probably took about an hour. Then C.W. still had to shower and get dressed for work and load the truck. So I’m thinking from 3:00-4:00ish the murders happened, from 4:00-5:00 the quick clean up and get ready for work happened, and he was loaded and out of the driveway at 5:27am.
The reason I think the kids were still alive when he killed SW was because C.W. needed to get past the toughest murder first. In case SW was able to fight him off or he chickened out, he didn’t want to have 2 deceased children to deal with. He knew if he was successful in killing SW that the kids would be quick and easy to kill as they wouldn’t be able to put up much of a fight.
To disprove CW’s account of how it happened, the sheets again tell the story in my opinion. He would have killed SW in one of the girls’ rooms and SW would have wound up on the floor there. Knowing he couldn’t put her in a bag, he would wrap her in a sheet. Why on earth would he have used the fitted sheet from the Master bed to wrap her up? The fitted sheet is more difficult to remove because you have to walk to all 4 corners of the bed to remove it. Wouldn’t it have been easier for him to grab the much easier flat top sheet to use? It’s bigger and can be tied on the ends. Or he could have just used the top sheet from the kids bed that was right there where he claimed he killed her.
I believe the sheets in the kitchen trashcan were the ones on the bed at the time he killed SW. I’m pretty sure LE will be able to tell if those sheets were “used” or clean. I also think the cadaver dogs may have alerted to a dead body in the master bedroom which will also disprove CW’s account of what happened. SW should not have been dead in the master bedroom if he killed her in the girls room. Side note, if SW is wearing the clothes she came home in, then the attack would have happened sooner in the bedroom.....and maybe they did have a conversation that got heated. The clothing of SW and the girls in the ME report will give some indication as to when the were killed. Sorry for the long post. Any similar theories out there?

YES, YES, YES! You are exactly right about that fitted sheet. I too believe SW was killed in the master bedroom because there is no logical reason to strip the bed and use the fitted sheet for disposal unless she was already on that bed and on top of that sheet.

I’m still not sure why he threw the top sheet away. It’s possible he used that to strangle her I suppose? Or maybe he planned on getting rid of all the sheets and pillow cases and buying a new set also.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Okay, this is the video where NUA says the beds were unmade and also where she says that she had her son look in the garage: Video: Friend of woman allegedly killed by husband on why something 'didn't seem right'

I think this was the best video (on this topic) that I've seen.

 

[CFlo]

I think the scenario is impossible because if you see someone strangling your children you don't strangle them back. You punch them in the face. You throw them across the room. You bash their head in. Especially a big strong guy. Anything to get them to stop and strangling back is not a defensive move.

His story doesn’t fit. So he strangles SW because he’s so enraged because she killed their children? But then he kills their third child by killing her, and that, no matter how enraged one shall be, he would remember.
Doesn’t fit.
Autopsy results I strongly believe will prove this and not because of DNA, but because it will show that all three were strangled by the same hands (via premortum bruising, size of hands, fingers, etc.) my very strong belief.

 

[PeekingDuck]

This is going to be a long post on my theory. I think the bed sheets are going to do CW in. This is what I believe happened: SW gets home at 1:48. She leaves her belongings downstairs to deal with in the morning. She’s exhausted after a delayed flight, etc… She goes upstairs and straight to her bedroom. I don’t think she risks waking the kids in the middle of the night by going in to kiss them when she can see them on the monitor. (I personally don’t want to risk waking my kids at that hour knowing they won’t get back to sleep). She had no reason to believe C.W. wouldn’t have taken good care of them as he had done on all of her previous work trips. I do believe that the kids were alive at this point (I’ll explain later). I don’t think a big conversation happened between SW and CW.....maybe just a groggy hello if C.W. even bothered to act awake. I think C.W. is a coward and waited for SW to fall asleep before strangling her on their bed….probably around 3:00am.(FYI…she should be wearing pajamas when the ME report comes out). After C.W. kills SW, he wraps her in the fitted sheet she is laying on deceased on the bed. To be able to do this he has to toss off all of the top bedding to be able to peel those fitted sheet corners off of the foot of the mattress.
Hence the pile of bedding found on the floor by LE. With the most difficult murder out of the way, he proceeded to kill the “easier” victims. He likely placed them in bags because they were small. SW wouldn’t fit in a bag. I think killing all 3 and wrapping/bagging them up probably took about an hour. Then C.W. still had to shower and get dressed for work and load the truck. So I’m thinking from 3:00-4:00ish the murders happened, from 4:00-5:00 the quick clean up and get ready for work happened, and he was loaded and out of the driveway at 5:27am.
The reason I think the kids were still alive when he killed SW was because C.W. needed to get past the toughest murder first. In case SW was able to fight him off or he chickened out, he didn’t want to have 2 deceased children to deal with. He knew if he was successful in killing SW that the kids would be quick and easy to kill as they wouldn’t be able to put up much of a fight.
To disprove CW’s account of how it happened, the sheets again tell the story in my opinion. He would have killed SW in one of the girls’ rooms and SW would have wound up on the floor there. Knowing he couldn’t put her in a bag, he would wrap her in a sheet. Why on earth would he have used the fitted sheet from the Master bed to wrap her up? The fitted sheet is more difficult to remove because you have to walk to all 4 corners of the bed to remove it. Wouldn’t it have been easier for him to grab the much easier flat top sheet to use? It’s bigger and can be tied on the ends. Or he could have just used the top sheet from the kids bed that was right there where he claimed he killed her.
I believe the sheets in the kitchen trashcan were the ones on the bed at the time he killed SW. I’m pretty sure LE will be able to tell if those sheets were “used” or clean. I also think the cadaver dogs may have alerted to a dead body in the master bedroom which will also disprove CW’s account of what happened. SW should not have been dead in the master bedroom if he killed her in the girls room. Side note, if SW is wearing the clothes she came home in, then the attack would have happened sooner in the bedroom.....and maybe they did have a conversation that got heated. The clothing of SW and the girls in the ME report will give some indication as to when the were killed. Sorry for the long post. Any similar theories out there?

Wow. That's really intuitive. Totally plausible. Good work.

 

[FlossyMay]

I don't think the story in the documents we've seen is a word for word account of what CW told LE. It's just a summary as far as I know. Therefore, there could be a lot we don't know. Just thought I'd point that out for everyone on both sides of this argument. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

ETA: Also do we even know COD yet?

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Ok. Yeah. I'm a survivor. I wish she and her children had been. She was so vivacious despite her health issues. I know moms with health issues who raise children. They have more challenges to get through the day, but they can do as well as healthy moms.

 

[PommyMommy]

He couldn’t.
Also, if her intent as one person here (besides CW states), why was her phone found in the loft area that sits between the master and the child rooms. Because she took it with her to strangle the girls? Um, no.

I sort of get the feeling that in CW's frenzy as he's going up and down the stairs with the bodies, throwing sheets away, etc., he sees her phone (possibly on the floor?) and stuffs it between the cushions to deal with later.

Because you know, he's in a hurry to get to work and put the bodies somewhere that will be near to him each day, safe and warm. :/sarcasm

 

[Amonet]

What happened between 1.48 am & 5.27 am Monday 13 August? (ONE possible scenario for discussion & critiquing)

The kids are already dead. For whatever reason they were killed after the childrens' party or before 2am 13 August before SW returned, likely strangled in their sleep, assuming with pressure on necks and pillows on faces to muffle any noise etc. Dieter dog doesn't even know they are "gone". He plans to kill SW later, pref when she is asleep.

1. Even with the original flight ETA of 11pm on 12 August the kids would normally be asleep by then, when SW got home and he figures that she might just peep through their doors and see their sleeping bodies and he will kill her later.( He figures that if that doesn't work out and she realises they are not breathing, he will deal with that at the time.) Well before 11pm he comms with SW before her flight, that the kids are dog tired after their day and so is he- that they'll all be asleep when she gets in. He can't wait up – busy day tomorrow- please don't wake up the whole house when you get in etc.*
   
   
2. So as per routine he goes to bed himself in the master c.10.30 pm. ( Normal work means he would be out around 6 am?) However he plans to wait/not sleep. Switches the house lights out in case neighbours are about, maybe surfs the net on his phone etc.
   
   
3. He gets text/call from SW to say she is delayed. He may or may not reply – may pretend he's asleep. If he does reply, he just reiterates the point at 2* please be quiet when you come in. He might even ask her nicely to sleep in a spare room if they have one , so as not to wake him. ( No alarm is caused.) Meanwhile he probably gets up, paces, worries about his plan because he knows that he's lost at least 3 hours from his clean-up, dispose & stage plan. He plots alternatives or surfs the net, knows he can't risk falling into a deep sleep for too many hours. He can't even switch the house lights on after midnight in case neighbours see that it's all lit up.
4. NA drops off SW around 2am. House is dark , lights all off. She is tired but wired as only just stopped travelling from a busy Thrive trip. She waves off NA, closes door , Leaves suitcase at bottom stairs, shoes off at front door. Goes to the kitchen. Leaves her purse on the island and gets a drink. She isn't feeling great. She's not going to start tidying the kitchen now but as she is OCD about tidiness she quietly moves a few toys left around the lounge floor. Next she takes her phone and starts to scroll through a few of the messages & photos she'd received from distributors or colleagues from the trip.( Dog may be asleep downstairs she greets, it goes back to it's bed downstairs.) OR or Dieter could be in the bedroom with CW- he planned to have the dog not get too agitated
5. SW Goes upstairs and pops her head around the bedroom door of both girls. From the doorway she can see they are asleep and tucked in well. CW also appears to be asleep.
   (second part in next post or posts so long they're unreadable)

I'm wondering how the baby monitor and the phone on the upstairs couch fit in.

CW was asked by one of the reporters if he was asleep when Shanann got in. He said "no" but his following words suggested he hadn't wanted to admit that. I can't recall the exact words. The reporter had tried to ask something similar in the immediately preceding question but CW gave a response that had nothing to do with the question that was asked, again wanting to avoid answering that question.

So I do think he was awake waiting for her to get back. His explaining about Shanann's plane being late seemed like it had bothered him that the plane was late, which I don't think it would have been such a big deal to him if he was asleep? And I feel he confirms this by letting it slip out that he wasn't asleep.

So, Shanann comes in, kicks her shoes off, leaves her purse in the kitchen, goes upstairs with the phone. Where would she normally leave the phone at night? Does she normally switch the phone off at night so that they can sleep without any calls/texts bothering them and then turn the phone on in the morning when she's had a shower and had a coffee and more prepared for the blast of calls and texts from her friends and "her people".

Then Shanann goes upstairs to sleep? Was CW downstairs to 'greet' Shanann?

I think she must have gone into one of the girls rooms and seen that her baby wasn't breathing. I wonder if she turned off the phone and dropped it on the couch before entering the child's room?

So she sees one of her daughters isn't breathing, screams for CW to come (because she just knows her baby isn't breathing, she might not realize that it was death by manual strangulation? I don't know how obvious that would be, especially in a dark room where maybe there's only a hall light shining into the child's room so as to not disturb the child by turning on the main light in the child's bedroom? So she screams for CW to come quickly, exits the bedroom and goes for her phone to call 911....And CW attacks Shanann.

Or Shanann put her phone in the bedroom before checking on the first of the girls and had to run into the bedroom to get the phone, CW was in the bedroom pretending to be asleep, and he strangles Shanann there and then, and throws the phone onto the couch (why?) and then hides it behind a cushion while he's doing the quick clean-up before the body dump? But if Shanann had put the phone on the couch before she went into check on the girls, then I find it easier that CW is doing the quick clean-up of the scene, sees the phone on the couch cushion and pushes it between the cushions/seats as a quick fix? So I prefer that scenario, but then I don't understand how the main bedroom sheets come into it if Shanann wasn't murdered on the bed?

 

[CARIIS]

I have not seen anyone on the thread defending Chris. What I have read here are people who believe he committed the horrors he confessed to.

There is a world of difference imo !

Before the confession came out I had started to have notions about the participants in the relationship.

These were different ideas than the majority of folks appear to have gleaned from the SM stuff.

I saw mostly, a intense desire to show , possibly, a total facade (obviously )of what was really happening with the relationship.

Relationships are always two way streets.

My difference of opinion is just that -- what he did was horrid.

I do however believe that there is more to the story .

I am fully aware that they charged him for the kids. Folks are charged daily for things that did not occur.

It is important IMO to remain cognizant of the simple fact that he did not change his confession - ever. The media (everywhere) over time changed what he said to LE>

Interestingly , this error , evolved over time. Early on every outlet always stated "allegedly" or "reportedly"

I found that odd all along. But from where it is now I understand it better.

Medias desire to blast a shocking headline .

The "allergy " and "reportedly" , for new reason other than a more dramatic headline changed to the erroneous blaring headline:

Husbands admits to killing wife and two chilren - when in fact he never confessed to any such thing.

If he had, happens , it would be in filings submitted to a court of law.

In much the same way as they reported that he denied an affair (what man or woman does not?) was clearly indicated in the filing.

The way it stands now is the erroneous public perception that he confessed to killing all three of them .

He simply never said that, nor confess to such.

There are rules we follow here. However that does not preclude being aware of things that do not meet certain criteria here.

Much online is speculation, granted.

Everything on line however, is not BS.

So to the come to the conclusion that those of us who have a differing opinion are trolls is not accurate.

As far as I go I have been here for bit- and I am confident that the notion of my having any interest in trolling anyone, anything ,at any time ,in any instance would not be endorsed by any member who has been with us for quite some time.

That is what WS is about.

ONe's beliefs who are different than others are fine - they are personal opinions.

Which does not make them any more correct or likely.

They are opinions - and based on (just like everyone else) those concussions are formed as a result of a whole host of things individual to each person.

We all base our notions on our experiences - and my experience (does not make it more or less likely than anyone else's) in all liklihood resulted in my observing some things in a different light .

That does not make me right. That makes me me!

Those of us who have spent time together here are also aware in any tragedy "monster" " hope X rots in""evil" have never been nor will ever be in my worldview.

I understand venting (for sure!) but for me calling another human being a monster does not really help me .

All behavior (good or bad or horrible) has meaning.

In addition, after all these years here, I have two people on ignore. Ignoring thoughts and ideas that differ from mine basically translates IMO not having the option to think of something different than I thought.

That happens for me often here. Often it is aloud!! OH!

Then often followed by "my god I never thought of that" typically followed by some new search terms in Google!

In much the same fashion , those who endorse a belief system do so passionately. The same is true for others who have a different conclusion - it done with passion as well.

This blind notion that LE is often correct , is not true.

People are let out daily for LE blunders.

I would like to think that had the media not gotten the confession wrong for several days - there might be some folks more willing or able to consider that his confession might be what actually did occur.

Play around with "Fantasy Bonding" IMO the answers are there - terms of the why- it relates to this tragedy

that is jmo !

moo

 

[Amonet]

I think the scenario is impossible because if you see someone strangling your children you don't strangle them back. You punch them in the face. You throw them across the room. You bash their head in. Especially a big strong guy. Anything to get them to stop and strangling back is not a defensive move.

Agreed! If it was true, then I think grab the woman, drag her off the child and out of the room, slap her or punch her to knock her out if necessary (and out of anger) and grab a phone and call 911, shut her in the main bedroom and run into the babies rooms while you dial 911 and scream that you need an ambulance and police ASAP because your babies aren't breathing and you found your wife in the act of strangling one of your children!

 

[Shekkiec]

He also looked quite well-groomed and tidy in that interview, in addition to the unrestrained glee, didn't he? Not a bit distraught. He even wore his spiffy new shirt.

moo

smiling bc it was his favorite team
And had a moment of awkwardness mentioning SW prob bought it for him

 

[FlossyMay]

I believe he killed them all. Could I be wrong? Yes. I like the difference of opinions in this case because a lot of things are possible since we don't know many facts.