CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[SweetPeas56]

Shanann Watts 'Didn't Want to Believe' Husband Chris Was Cheating: Friend

Wonder if said Mistress could be a motive? If she wasn't part of the crime and had no involvement, I highly recommend she immediately distance herself from this monster and lawyer up.

Regarding not wanting to believe it, I can say from personal experience that the non-cheating partner is usually less suspicious than the cheating partner. We don't behave that way and want to believe that our SO isn't either, while the guilty party has a mind full of lies and sneakiness, and they expect it from others.

 

[CFlo]

Just re baby gates ( haven't read the rest of CFlo's post yet)

Just to note that there are many photos of baby gates in her Insta with pix of Celeste toddling.

Ooo, ty.... for your correction, guidance...
Where these on the first floor, or second? The last SM and media videos I saw of first floor near door area didn’t have any going up the stairs to the second floor.
BUT, not sure I was looking for them at the time, so TY!

 

[MCDRAW]

He couldn’t.
Also, if her intent as one person here (besides CW states), why was her phone found in the loft area that sits between the master and the child rooms. Because she took it with her to strangle the girls? Um, no.

I think she might have been on her way to look in on the girls and he attacks her there, he may have not strangled her there but some kind of altercation happened there. I can't figure out any other reason for her phone to be pushed down behind the cushions. He could have just taken her phone and put it in his pocket if he was just trying to keep her from calling for help.

 

[MCDRAW]

Delete

 

[gitana1]

Possible too, but who puts Santa present at the bottom of a child’s bed? Not snarky, seriously asking.
I just commented about my own son having a sixth sent (not really) so I break my back trying to sneak in and out to check on him. So for while, I just use the “baby” monitor.

English people.

 

[nd1313]

Regarding not wanting to believe it, I can say from personal experience that the non-cheating partner is usually less suspicious than the cheating partner. We don't behave that way and want to believe that our SO isn't either, while the guilty party has a mind full of lies and sneakiness, and they expect it from others.

Agreed. Also, while there are many cases of murdering of spouses because of an affair, I just can't wrap my mind around why go for the sweet children as well?

 

[Amonet]

I believe this was an event that spiraled out of control after a heated argument. I see more reason for her to spiral than him.

Are there a lot of cases of familicide that are preceded by a heated argument over something like this, ones that are comparable to this situation, regardless of whoever you think is most likely to have killed the children?

I will admit that sometimes familicides, usually when it's only the children killed by the father, can be preceded by marital separation and the father not wanting to hand back the children after visitation.

I really don't think there's going to be anything to verify, or even support, this defense by CW which you are choosing to argue from his side...which technically is not playing Devil's Advocate but is more taking a particular side in a debate and arguing it as strongly as you can regardless of your alignment to that side. I'm not bashing you, I'm just saying.

CW's actions that night don't support anyone but him being a killer that night. Stats will back this up.

CW's actions after the event don't support anyone else being a killer that night. Stats will back this up.

CW's statements to media do not support anyone else being a killer that night from a statement analysis and behavioral analysis standpoint, both of which are based on numerous cases of study of guilty and innocent behavior and word analysis.

The physical evidence in the house and bodies may or may not be able to prove either way.

So he has 3 out of 4 running against him even before we learn about the physical evidence.

If CW had left the bodies in situ and enabled a full forensic autopsy, then there's a high chance he would have been proven innocent of the murders of the children by hard evidence. Unfortunately he put the bodies in oil which has likely destroyed that evidence.

So what's left that could show his innocence in the murders of the two girls? Placement of cadaverine and other forensic evidence and whether Shanann was killed in one of the girls' rooms vs the main bedroom or elsewhere in the home? And maybe stomach contents if they can possibly show that the time of death for the girls was very close to that of Shanann...if it shows a few hours earlier or a few hours later, he's going down. If it can't tell if it's close or a few hours, it's really clutching at straws.

We have so far about 3 or 4 people on these threads who've been either appearing to feel it's possible for Shanann to have murdered the girls, or in your case simply choosing to take that side in debate. How many people have been in these threads, a hundred? That's not good odds for getting one of them onto a jury, and a court case is likely to be a lot more damning due to far more evidence being presented and in much better ways than we can present and examine here in this forum.

If you look at all of this, and then add on Gitana1's post and imagine the prosecutor making a summing up like that....CW's going down.

Edited to fix a typo.

 

[FlossyMay]

Sorry. I had to let my dogs out to pee and suddenly I am pages behind. I have two dachshunds and they are protective of those they consider family. I have no doubt that SW's dog would try to defend her if there was a huge altercation. He probably viewed her as the Alpha of his pack. If the dog was locked in another room and heard a commotion and couldn't get in there to see what was going on, it would throw a fit. We locked ours in a bedroom once in order to move some furniture into the house and they tore the carpet slap off the floor trying to get in there to see what was going on.

 

[MCDRAW]

I have been back and forth on the premeditated. I think the scenario I mentioned works either way....premeditated or spontaneous. I think killing had crossed his mind in the past and he had thought those oil wells would be a good place to hide a body. I lean more towards premeditated.

I lean towards premeditation. I just don't think SW was up for any conversation that night. NU said she had been feeling bad. I would assume she just wanted to go to bed, knowing her girls would be up the next morning.

 

[dgfred]

I am leaning toward him attacking her as she was on the couch... not worried about her phone as he was planning on coming back later to fix everything. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Harriet Vane]

I don't think it makes a mom uncaring if she doesn't want to risk waking children who are easily woken. But this came about from a comment that I think implied that it was unlikely a mom in that situation would risk waking the kids by going into their rooms when she got home in the middle of the night.

All we're doing is saying that not all children are easily woken, they can just as easily be very deep sleepers. If that's the case it's absolutely logical Shanann would have gone to check on them when she came in from a weekend away.

And I think the comment about Shanann being a loving mom was more in response to how she appears to be a very loving mom from her visible demeanor to her children in photos, videos, stories, and feeling she's being unfairly attacked and maligned by some (maybe not here). So I think it was more of a defensive comment than to imply that a loving mom would go into check and if the mom didn't go into check, then she must be a bad mom.

We haven't heard anything to say that CW had been anything other than an apparently loving and good dad prior to that night.

But, familicide by fathers of children and wife, often seems to happen like this? While I haven't read up on every single case, none of the few I did read about said anything about earlier abuse of the children by the familicidal man. Where only one child is killed, or where the 'mother' kills the children (excepting cases where the mother breaks through depression/sudden onset psychosis) I think you're more likely to find that there would be prior child abuse of some kind, whether that's neglect, physical abuse, or emotional abuse.

Fair enough, I have just seen people arguing both with this case and others (not necessarily on here, I’ve read so much stuff in different places that I have no idea now where I’ve seen things), that there is absolutely no way a caring mother WOULDN’T check in on her children in this situation. I know there was a case here in the UK a while back where the mother saying she hadn’t checked on her child between putting him to bed at 9pm and finding him missing at 7am was instantly seen as a sign of her guilt by a lot of people (actually in that case she was guilty, but that’s not my point). I don’t always check on my children at night, I’m a light sleeper, they are light sleepers, and they often (but not always) get up and come in my bed at night, or call for me, but if they don’t, I’m not gonna risk disturbing them by going in there. Just wanted to point out that it IS possible she didn’t feel the need to go in and check on them, and it doesn’t mean her mothering of them was anything less than loving.

 

[CFlo]

I believe it's common in the UK to put presents at the end of the bed. Also to slip a coin under the pillow of a sleeping child from the tooth fairy.

Thanks! When I was a little US army Brat spending a few of my younger years in Germany, St. Nick left goodies in our shoes outside our front door.
I work in such a diverse global “community” and love to hear what other cultures do for holidays.
I can’t imagine trying to leave his present at the foot of his bed. I’d get caught quick! LOL

 

[SN76]

The witness list isn't on the Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.
The witness list is pages 4 to 8 of the COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION:
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

Sorry, my mistake!

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think it makes a mom uncaring if she doesn't want to risk waking children who are easily woken. But this came about from a comment that I think implied that it was unlikely a mom in that situation would risk waking the kids by going into their rooms when she got home in the middle of the night.

All we're doing is saying that not all children are easily woken, they can just as easily be very deep sleepers. If that's the case it's absolutely logical Shanann would have gone to check on them when she came in from a weekend away.

And I think the comment about Shanann being a loving mom was more in response to how she appears to be a very loving mom from her visible demeanor to her children in photos, videos, stories, and feeling she's being unfairly attacked and maligned by some (maybe not here). So I think it was more of a defensive comment than to imply that a loving mom would go into check and if the mom didn't go into check, then she must be a bad mom.

We haven't heard anything to say that CW had been anything other than an apparently loving and good dad prior to that night.

But, familicide by fathers of children and wife, often seems to happen like this? While I haven't read up on every single case, none of the few I did read about said anything about earlier abuse of the children by the familicidal man. Where only one child is killed, or where the 'mother' kills the children (excepting cases where the mother breaks through depression/sudden onset psychosis) I think you're more likely to find that there would be prior child abuse of some kind, whether that's neglect, physical abuse, or emotional abuse.

Speculating on the other side of the coin

Mothers killing their own children is shockingly more common than you think, so much so that there's even a term for the killer moms who do it — filicide. Although people might wonder in confusion as to how a parent can take away the life of the one thing they are supposed to love and protect, psychologists say there are several reasons for why moms choose to kill, from spousal revenge to altruistic motives. But the main thing that ties all these cases together, regardless of the motive, is mental health.

Mothers with very young children are infinitely more vulnerable when a partner deserts them and walks out on them,"

I cant without him theme - and stated online frequently (life is nothing without him etc)

reason there isn't any way out for them. They come to the conclusion that they have had enough and they want to take their own life and it's inconceivable to them that they take their own life and leave their children."



Christy killed her kids

same with this family

this family as well

Killer Moms: Shocking Cases Of Women Who Killed Their Children - In Touch Weekly

 

[dreamwarrior66]

He says the wife killed the kids because this is his only defense. It's the only way to introduce doubt. But if it happened like he said, that's a case for either self defense or temporary insanity. He could've easily called the cops to report exactly what happened and he'd be a hero. He can say what he wants to say but in court this is a terrible defense.

 

[ethoma12002]

It could be so simple as his having his mistress over that evening and sending her home early because his wife was coming. He could have been POd because Sw was 3-4 hours late and he sent the mistress home early.

I would have noticed had my husband EVER changed the sheets.

I don't know. It was apparently a tight-knit community. Cameras everywhere. A doorbell app. People walking their dogs. I don't think he had the AP over at his house. It was mostly likely a lunch-time affair at work. Here's the scenario (no links cause this isn't fact):

It could have been these 2 people always flirting and the coworkers getting suspicious and assuming the affair lasted longer than it did. So, the coworkers tell the cops they've been seeing each other for 2 months when its actually a week. The cops go to the AP and she says they slept together the first time last Thursday. And the police write in the affidavit that he was involved in an affair with a coworker.

This has nothing to do with anything except the AP was really not involved in any of the murders. Also, I doubt CW was planning on leaving his wife for her. I heard she was married with her own kids. Even if she wasn't, I doubt their relationship was going anywhere. I think he probably always had someone on the side and this was just the current one at that time.

 

[CARIIS]

Of course he does. Most guilty parties, and their attys. do. And of course it all has to be verified and established as fact in court...but based on what we know, as fact, currently...the fingers should be pointing in his direction.

Actually all we know is he confessed to killing her.

 

[gitana1]

I agree, of course she would have fought back. That's basically what I was saying, just that there wouldn't be the obvious signs of a fight (as in an all-out brawl with things tipped over, etc.) especially if it was limited to a small area such as the bed and as another poster pointed out, he had his full body weight on her. At the very, very least, there was a struggle. I'm sorry if I was unclear, but I think we're on the same page. ?

I'm not sure I understand your question about the BOLO. To clarify, I wasn't suggesting at all that there were holes in the wall, but just using that as an example of what would indicate a "fight."

I don't remember the question he was responding to when he said, "It was real quick." I'll try to go back and find it, but the best I can do right now is link the interviews.

9 News:

Denver 7:

KDVR:

These videos should be posted at the beginning of each thread. Along with articles about family annihilators, and the complaint and warrantless affidavit.

 

[searchinGirl]

I don't know. It was apparently a tight-knit community. Cameras everywhere. A doorbell app. People walking their dogs. I don't think he had the AP over at his house. It was mostly likely a lunch-time affair at work. Here's the scenario (no links cause this isn't fact):

It could have been these 2 people always flirting and the coworkers getting suspicious and assuming the affair lasted longer than it did. So, the coworkers tell the cops they've been seeing each other for 2 months when its actually a week. The cops go to the AP and she says they slept together the first time last Thursday. And the police write in the affidavit that he was involved in an affair with a coworker.

This has nothing to do with anything except the AP was really not involved in any of the murders. Also, I doubt CW was planning on leaving his wife for her. I heard she was married with her own kids. Even if she wasn't, I doubt their relationship was going anywhere. I think he probably always had someone on the side and this was just the current one at that time.

What does AP mean? Alleged Paramour?

 

[Shekkiec]

It’s possible too that the dog disappearing along with the family would look suspicious. Would they take the dog along to visit one of her friends since that was his story?

Great point