CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Murdering a whole entire family because of an affair never makes any sense to me. Not when divorces are so easy to come by.

his confession makes sense in this regard

his use of the word "emotional " pause and lets leave it there

why not say everything was fine

think about statement..............
 
My latest theory is that CW hadn't planned this murder out beforehand. (The deleting of the SM a week before is very suspicious, however.)

I think the girls were alive and asleep when SW got home.

I think SW's suspicions of CW's infidelity became confirmed when she got back from NC. Perhaps a friend mentioned seeing CW with a woman, or someone mentioned seeing a woman enter the house while she was gone. Or maybe SW came across some evidence of the affair at the home.

SW may have ripped the sheets off the bed when she learned that his lover had slept in the bed.

SW was going to sleep on the couch that night. CW was not happy. They got into a fight (an "emotional discussion," if you will). It got physical, and loud. The children started to wake. He put his hands on her throat and started squeezing. The rage filled inside of him. She struggled and thrashed, he held on tight, and one or both of the kids walked in and saw this. SW went limp, and the kids started screaming.

What was he to do? His daughters just saw their father kill their mother. They were screaming, the dog was howling. The neighbors will hear! He puts his hand over his daughter's mouth to stop the screaming, and it only worked if he cut her air off entirely. Eventually, she went limp, too, and it was on to the other daughter.

Then he went into panic mode, cleaned up the mess as best as he could. Locked the dog in the garage while he figured out what to do with the bodies.
 
Hi, it’s probably just being a Friday, but I’m still not following, but I will try my best...
Looking to say the opposite of anyone without experience? As for experiences, there are other various legal cases, folks on this forum, and myself includes that can speak to certain experiences... some including finding their child “blue”.
I’m at a loss for the rest of where you’re trying to go, again would love to understand it... it may just be me today, but I’m not getting to what you’re immediately asking, or going.
One last shot in the dark for me. With so much not yet realeases, we can go by experiences, prior legal cases, psychological reasoning/facts of how the human mind works in ALL situations including mental disorders OR the affects thereto from physical disorders or diseases, etc. This also would include comparing centuries to CW “partial confession.”
I today know from my own experiences, what has been proven without a reasonable doubt in other cases, etc etc etc. I can also read clearly that he was having an “active affair”. I can also read clearly he admitted to killing SW (and their 16 week old second trimester child). If he can kill a wife and child, what leads anyone to ebelieve that he couldn’t kill the other two.
jMo

I never stated my belief that he could not do it!
 
his confession makes sense in this regard

his use of the word "emotional " pause and lets leave it there

why not say everything was fine

think about statement..............
Because it likely got loud and he didn't know if the neighbors overhead the commotion. So he says they had an emotional conversation in case any witnesses who overheard them come forward.
 
I really do not undertand why everyone is so fixated on CW and his mentioned affair when one needers blinders on and still is obvious SW was having one as well.
There was a confession of an affair from CW he is the one who claims he confessed and wanted a separation . This is why it is imperative evidence to the actions that took place immediately after the “emotional conversation “and led to 3 people being dead. SW is a victim and so far no actions of hers were cause of any evidence we have been given .
 
And one other thing, maybe CW was a compulsive cheat and SW just didn't give a s*** anymore. Was she losing out on anything by staying? Apparently not. Was she crazy with jealousy? Nope. She may have learned to cope. The point of this is to say, I don't think she went crazy because he said he was leaving. And I don't think he was leaving because he wanted someone else. I still don't know what happened but I don't think it has anything to do with AP.
 
|I have the notion of a different scene. Clearly things were not the Brady Bunch for quite some time.

One partner in a marriage cant be the only miserable one. It is kinda like an impossibility.

Financial stressors are problematic in any relationship. We have documented proof that he worked hard and was providing a paycheck.

We have one documented income stream. All the rest is marketing.

I think the relationship started to deteriorate from that point forward.

I think he had to time when alone and peaceful for a month and half realized his marriage was over and waited up to tell her his desicion

I would think both ways talking about splitting up had occurred before. I believe she took the kids and ran to family for a month and half was for them to see if divorce was the answer.

I think that helped him make up his mind. Apparently he also had someone in his life that worked for him.

I think when he told her she for the first time knew it was for real. His term emotional fits in here. From the videos we can probably conclude that she was high strung and this reality was really hard for her.

Like I stated early on I think he also told her that he found someone who he was happy with. This can often set off shall we say quite some feelings!

She had an intense response to this. Per her daily declarations that he is her rock, the sunshine of her life, being incapable of living without him , having the bestest husband ,and greatest father in the world , the best life one could imagine BECAUSE of him .

These are her belief systems.

I do not think it is a stretch to say she was scared , livid, hurt. For someone so emotionally enmeshed with another person , to also have it confirmed that he found someone else - in all likelihood would escalate the sistrum. He is leaving her and has someone.

That is a blow.

It makes total sense that he took a break from her intense reaction and went downstairs for a breather.

The phone on the couch IMO is more like her just throwing it in her rage

The sheets all over fits far more with her in rage yanking the sheets off the bed to get to the kids. It fits emotional frenzy and not thinking clearly - enraged.

He is strong . If he was calmly strangulating anyone you don't need to yank off sheets of sleeping kids to murder them.

The scene fits his confession IMO more than a lot of notions about him killing the kids before -- stuff all over the place indicates IMO a horrible 8 minutes of tragedy

It is also somewhat interesting as it relates to the SM junk the main take away is look at how awesome she is, while at the same time using the same superficial measures of contentment (smiling when ordered to do so) it seems few , now, come to the same conclusion about him from SM stuff.

What criteria are we using in determining this "love " for the children. Smiling talking an arm around them. I see him engaging in the exact same behaviors -- so why cant it be that his kids were taken from HIM?

It does happen folks.

The refusal to accept his confession IMO is def influenced by the SM parade. But the only takeaway from the identical behaviors is one is an awesome parent while the other isnt

LOL!!!!!

She left for the 6 weeks, IMO, to see if SHE wanted to leave him. I don’t doubt that she wanted to.

Nothing you or anyone else says will make me believe he didn’t murder those children. He didn’t love them. Parents who love their children do not dispose of them like garbage. Parents who love their children try CPR and give them proper funerals.

He said he stepped out of the bedroom “for a moment” which isn’t long enough to completely strangle anyone, especially for a weak woman with long fake nails. If this went down as quickly as he said, both babies were probably just unconscious and he might have dumped them in crude oil while they were still alive.

He loved them so much! Yeah right.
 
Ok, this isn't going to be popular...but my ex husband had an affair. I consider myself a great mom and I went slightly crazy. We looked like a successful family. He had a great career, but he really was angry about having our traveling lifestyle change when children came into the picture.

One night, we were out with family and he wanted to drive while intoxicated. I hid the keys. For a long time, I thought if only I had not hid the keys, if only I had not choose to drive him home when he was drunk and acting belligerent. But I did drive him home with our children in the back seat. He attacked me in our driveway, head butted me several times, punched me in the face, tried to drag me out of the car. It was fast. I remember seeing stars and my head slamming back on the driver side window and hearing our children scream. He was about 225 lbs and 6 feet tall at that time. I was about 160 lbs and 5'9. I fought back, especially when he tried to drag our baby out of the car seat. I did not know I was screaming. Suddenly he ran into the house and I drove away with the children.

A neighbor heard me screaming and called the cops as they watched the altercation happen. My ex husband was arrested, I was called by the police to come back to the house, and questioned while medical personnel in an ambulance looked me over. I refused to go to the hospital, because I did not want my family to know what had just happened and had no one to look after my children.

Police left, and I went into the house. I put the children to bed and went into our room. There in the bed, was his 44 pistol, loaded. I think he was going to shoot me. I remember the sadness I felt when I unloaded the gun and put it away. I was a stay at home mom, with no money, and I was too afraid to admit to my family what my life was really like. He claimed to remember nothing. I lived the facade for two more years before I was able to get out. He cheated so much and was cruel, but still I pretended everything was ok.

My point is...I think SW painted a picture on social media. I don't think she did this just for her business. Especially with the video of her daughter singing about her dad is her hero and how CW is her rock. I think she was sending a message to the AP. And that message was, this is my family, we love CW, what you are thinking is not true, and I am not just going to let him go.

Also, great moms can do crazy things when the world they have worked to create is crumbling. I think SW took that picture of the wrapped doll, posted it, and that it was a message, too. There is zero evidence that CW took that photo. It was uploaded to her page when she was home. She strikes me as a very smart woman, who was fighting for her marriage and to keep CW. she kept the image of her family perfect.

Later, before my ex started bringing all his various girlfriend's into our daughters' lives, I remember thinking I was the children's mom and I didn't want any other woman to be raising them. I even said to my ex that it would be over my dead body that another woman raises my children. I felt that in those insane moments.

I don't support CW, at all. I felt he killed them the moment I saw his interview...BUT...her posting that photo of the doll wrapped in a sheet, presenting a perfect life, I think the defense will use that to support what CW has claimed she did because she could not bear to let any other woman be near her girls. I definitely feel this will go to trial.

Not judging you, you were in pain.

I believe stats will bear out that a woman who goes through with an act like that will almost certainly not do it until she's been physically left by her partner.

People can say very vicious and vindictive things out of pain. They very rarely follow through with them.

Shanann had a lot of supportive people around her. I don't believe any of her mlm friends would have thought any less of her for her husband leaving her for another woman, I think they would have rallied around and supported her. I believe her family back in NC would have fully supported her and maybe helped her move back to NC with the girls.

I just don't see existing stats bearing out a Shanann murderer scenario to punish her husband rather than a CW familicide scenario. Even if the stats said that there was equal likelihood...CW's behavior doesn't back it up.

Whatever way you turn it, there is nothing in the whole picture that makes it likely for Shanann to have been anything other than innocent victim that night.

Someone can say "*I* don't think so" but that's an argument from incredulity, which is a logical fallacy, and is not a compelling or logical argument.
 
I've found out some more information about the HOA lawsuit.

They were being sued for non-payment of dues and assessments. The total of the assessments and late charges was $683.80. The lawsuit was seeking an additional $650 for attorney's fees and $200 in court costs for a total of $1,533.80.

The lawsuit was filed on July 12, 2018, but both CW and SW signed Waivers of Service on June 30. That means the lawsuit was no surprise, and they were essentially agreed for a judgment to be entered against them for $1,553.80, plus interest at 18% per annum, plus additional attorney's fees and court costs if they filed a responsive pleading.

To me, this means they couldn't come up with $684 to get their HOA dues up to date. I would say it points to a dire financial situation. Why wouldn't youOdd pay the dues before the lawsuit was filed if you could? Why have to pay the extra $200 in court costs and have a lawsuit as a public record against you?

Odd. Even stranger IMO is that they couldn't pay this and apparently didn't care, but they came up with airfare for 4 to NC which would have paid that and some left over...
 
Speculating on the other side of the coin

Mothers killing their own children is shockingly more common than you think, so much so that there's even a term for the killer moms who do it — filicide. Although people might wonder in confusion as to how a parent can take away the life of the one thing they are supposed to love and protect, psychologists say there are several reasons for why moms choose to kill, from spousal revenge to altruistic motives. But the main thing that ties all these cases together, regardless of the motive, is mental health.

Mothers with very young children are infinitely more vulnerable when a partner deserts them and walks out on them,"

I cant without him theme - and stated online frequently (life is nothing without him etc)

reason there isn't any way out for them. They come to the conclusion that they have had enough and they want to take their own life and it's inconceivable to them that they take their own life and leave their children."



Christy killed her kids

35BA1B6C00000578-3662730-image-a-2_1467051571526.jpg


same with this family

family_photo_closeup_-_qp1.jpg


this family as well

andrea-yates.jpg


isabel-martinez-atlanta-family-murder-embed.jpg




Killer Moms: Shocking Cases Of Women Who Killed Their Children - In Touch Weekly

Very true. A lot we still don't know about this case IMO.
 
Because it likely got loud and he didn't know if the neighbors overhead the commotion. So he says they had an emotional conversation in case any witnesses who overheard them come forward.

I think bringing up the emotional conversation was to set up the "she took the kids and left me" scenario. It seems one of the first things he told NU and LE was they were getting a separation (rather than show concern for their whereabouts).

Moo
 
My latest theory is that CW hadn't planned this murder out beforehand. (The deleting of the SM a week before is very suspicious, however.)

I think the girls were alive and asleep when SW got home.

I think SW's suspicions of CW's infidelity became confirmed when she got back from NC. Perhaps a friend mentioned seeing CW with a woman, or someone mentioned seeing a woman enter the house while she was gone. Or maybe SW came across some evidence of the affair at the home.

SW may have ripped the sheets off the bed when she learned that his lover had slept in the bed.

SW was going to sleep on the couch that night. CW was not happy. They got into a fight (an "emotional discussion," if you will). It got physical, and loud. The children started to wake. He put his hands on her throat and started squeezing. The rage filled inside of him. She struggled and thrashed, he held on tight, and one or both of the kids walked in and saw this. SW went limp, and the kids started screaming.

What was he to do? His daughters just saw their father kill their mother. They were screaming, the dog was howling. The neighbors will hear! He puts his hand over his daughter's mouth to stop the screaming, and it only worked if he cut her air off entirely. Eventually, she went limp, too, and it was on to the other daughter.

Then he went into panic mode, cleaned up the mess as best as he could. Locked the dog in the garage while he figured out what to do with the bodies.
I like this theory until the kids part. The first part is so likely and I've been in situations similar to this. I can imagine him trying to silence her by these means. But I don't think he would then address the kids. This doesn't make sense to me, but what does? We know he killed them so I don't know why I can't process this.
 
My experience with dogs has been quite different. We have a small dog and she will bark at any sort of contact, like a hug between family members and gets very anxious if there is any loud voices/ disagreements. I could be wrong but I also think that dogs are very sensitive to the difference between a dead body and an alive person. Even if the body is in a closed room the dog has an insane sense of smell and I think would be distressed. Maybe someone who has expertise with dogs can clarify. I think it could be useful to know. As for the neighbor hearing Deeder wailing, that says a lot as well IMO of course.
My experience with dogs leads me to believe it's breed-specific. My current pit bull reacts VERY differently to aggression between humans than my prior golden retriever and havenese did. They would stand by and bark and howl or hide whereas my pit bull tries to protect me (and anyone in our family) from even something so little as a pillow fight.
 
Ok, this isn't going to be popular...but my ex husband had an affair. I consider myself a great mom and I went slightly crazy. We looked like a successful family. He had a great career, but he really was angry about having our traveling lifestyle change when children came into the picture.

One night, we were out with family and he wanted to drive while intoxicated. I hid the keys. For a long time, I thought if only I had not hid the keys, if only I had not choose to drive him home when he was drunk and acting belligerent. But I did drive him home with our children in the back seat. He attacked me in our driveway, head butted me several times, punched me in the face, tried to drag me out of the car. It was fast. I remember seeing stars and my head slamming back on the driver side window and hearing our children scream. He was about 225 lbs and 6 feet tall at that time. I was about 160 lbs and 5'9. I fought back, especially when he tried to drag our baby out of the car seat. I did not know I was screaming. Suddenly he ran into the house and I drove away with the children.

A neighbor heard me screaming and called the cops as they watched the altercation happen. My ex husband was arrested, I was called by the police to come back to the house, and questioned while medical personnel in an ambulance looked me over. I refused to go to the hospital, because I did not want my family to know what had just happened and had no one to look after my children.

Police left, and I went into the house. I put the children to bed and went into our room. There in the bed, was his 44 pistol, loaded. I think he was going to shoot me. I remember the sadness I felt when I unloaded the gun and put it away. I was a stay at home mom, with no money, and I was too afraid to admit to my family what my life was really like. He claimed to remember nothing. I lived the facade for two more years before I was able to get out. He cheated so much and was cruel, but still I pretended everything was ok.

My point is...I think SW painted a picture on social media. I don't think she did this just for her business. Especially with the video of her daughter singing about her dad is her hero and how CW is her rock. I think she was sending a message to the AP. And that message was, this is my family, we love CW, what you are thinking is not true, and I am not just going to let him go.

Also, great moms can do crazy things when the world they have worked to create is crumbling. I think SW took that picture of the wrapped doll, posted it, and that it was a message, too. There is zero evidence that CW took that photo. It was uploaded to her page when she was home. She strikes me as a very smart woman, who was fighting for her marriage and to keep CW. she kept the image of her family perfect.

Later, before my ex started bringing all his various girlfriend's into our daughters' lives, I remember thinking I was the children's mom and I didn't want any other woman to be raising them. I even said to my ex that it would be over my dead body that another woman raises my children. I felt that in those insane moments.

I don't support CW, at all. I felt he killed them the moment I saw his interview...BUT...her posting that photo of the doll wrapped in a sheet, presenting a perfect life, I think the defense will use that to support what CW has claimed she did because she could not bear to let any other woman be near her girls. I definitely feel this will go to trial.
I thought the dolly pic was odd looking, but someone said it was a Twister mat. Since toddlers don't cover dollies like we would, that's very plausible to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
126
Guests online
1,979
Total visitors
2,105

Forum statistics

Threads
601,828
Messages
18,130,340
Members
231,153
Latest member
Horrorgirl87
Back
Top