Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #50

[katydid23]

This is inexcusable:

“But Cindy Watts told 9NEWs that the appearances were deceiving. She and her husband did not go to the couple’s 2012 wedding. “We didn’t attend because Shanann and I just couldn’t get along,” she said. “I didn’t like the way she treated him.” That friction continued throughout the marriage, she said. She said she did not believe he was excited about Shanann’s pregnancy.”

Really? Does Mrs. Watts really believe making statements like this will evoke sympathy for her poor, misunderstood son? Mrs. Watts is a vindictive and vicious woman IMO.
Chris Watts' parents question plea deal in murder of wife, daughters

She and Shanann 'just couldn't get along' , so Mama and family boycotts the wedding? Talk about trying to sabotage her son's marriage. Of course the 'friction' continued. She made sure of it.

 

[BelleIsle]

Thank you, BelleIsle for explaining how the family dynamics works when it involves the NPD parent and the enabler, what you're describing is the 'illusion', and it must be upheld at all costs, otherwise, the parent will have a major meltdown, which of course, is inevitable, how can they be acknowledged as brilliant masterminds on a daily basis without someone slipping up!

The poor kids are caught up in it, it's long term conditioning similar to a cult, even the golden child plays second fiddle to the parent with the disorder.

It's sad reading about what you've gone through and that light bulb moment when you accepted there'll never be an apology or the end to the gas-lighting. But you are opening the window to what some families are experiencing. These people are emotionally stunted in toddler years and from what I've witnessed, pretty crazy &%$@ goes down when the 'illusion' is challenged, but once restored, life goes on as if nothing happened!

Could this be CW's childhood, only time will tell, but it sure looks familiar to those in know. jmo

Thank you, @PrimeSuspect, for your kindness & thoughtful response. It feels really good to be acknowledged! As you know, people with NPD can come across as charming to those unfamiliar with their mask. Even to their own victims, they can wear one mask at home and another in public, which is confusing for the victim, and the casual observer may never know what is lurking there under the surface. All of my friends thought my mom was wonderful because of how she treated them (sometimes in such a caring manner as to get a reaction out of me. Picture the daughter who never gets to sit on mom's lap, watching mom invite another child to cuddle.), and treated me in front of them. Narcissists can be very passive aggressive.

It is so completely a form of brain washing. You question them, you question yourself, you forgive them, you hate them, you love them, you pull away, they pull you back just to push you away. Such a mess! I had a few lightbulb moments, but the big one came when I had to choose between the welfare of myself and my child, and the welfare of my mom. She was forcing me to choose, with her irrational moods & tantrums. I didn't choose my mom. I think that she still blames me for her reactions and I have to tell you, I couldn't care less if she does. She blew that facade wide open in a huge way, and I feel sad for her, but not sad enough to be a victim again. During that time, I had to really dig deep and rely upon my own strengths and those of my husband, even though part of me just wanted "my mom"; the mom who existed only in my imagination.

I have so much empathy for SW, she must have stumbled into that family and had a big WTH moment. I am sure that CW played one face to her and another to his mom. His mom played one face to the rest of their family and friends, another to SW & yet one more to CW. How frustrating the whole thing must have been.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I have said this before but I have a gleeful anticipation of seeing CW groupies proven wrong. But, I admit I've always enjoyed a bit of, "I told you so's" throughout my life. Yes...I'm one of those people.

<modsnip - snarky and personalized>Let's remember here that there are no winners in the deaths of a mother and her children.

 

[Seattle1]

I really wish someone would explain the legal system to his family. Does anyone know who K Almand is? An attorney? Family friend?

K Almand self identified herself on HLN's "On the Story" as Executive Producer of the podcast. She gave a call-in interview to HLN, and described the court room atmosphere during CW last hearing. She's not believed to have any legal experience, and no confirmed family, or friend. MOO

 

[pocketaccent]

Up until the last two days, I was very much on board with this sentiment. My heart was truly broken for both families facing an unimaginable grief. I don't believe in blaming any parents for the actions of their grown children. People are responsible for the things that they do and say as adult human beings. CW, an adult human being, is solely responsible for killing his family, disposing of their bodies in a grotesque manner, and disparaging his wife in an attempt to get away with it. He has admitted that all of these things are true. His parents didn't do this and they don't deserve the blame.

However, the Watts family are also adults and they are responsible for the things they are doing and saying right now. I don't believe they are incapable of understanding the facts of what happened, I believe they are unwilling to understand those facts. It's certainly their right to continue to believe CW's ridiculous story that his wife was the real killer but they have gone far beyond stating that they are sticking with his original allegations. They have taken to all forms of media and entered in to some bizarre relationship with an exploitative podcast in order to destroy their murdered daughter-in-law's good name. My sympathy is pretty much gone at this point. They are adults. They know what they are doing. They do deserve to be held responsible for that.

Jmo.

I think they need to accept the truth and face the reality that their son will spend the rest of his life in prison. And they will have no choice but to accept it after Monday. They will learn why their son had to plead guilty, to avoid death row, after he saw mountains of evidence against him, a come-to-Jesus moment followed, and decided LWOP was far more desirable than death row.

Setting aside inappropriate statements made by the parents, I sincerely and respectfully hope that they seek professional counseling. Publicly apologizing to Shanann's family should be done too. Soon.

 

[Charlot123]

Wow - that video in the second interview. After the newscasters show the clip of CW parents, they talk more about the case and say there is a "letter" that CW wrote to his sister at some point and said, "If anything happens to me, look at my wife," and that the family says that proves Shanann was unstable. That is the first I have read/seen of this "letter." Have we discussed that at all here? (49 threads I may have missed!!)

ETA more detail: This is also the video where the reporter asks, "What happened to this kid from Pine Forest High School?" showing an innocent picture of CW. And his mother says, "What happened? He met Shanann."

The newscaster also says in the clip, that the Watts family felt that "Shanann was dangerous and that they didn't even go to the couple's wedding."

I just wanted to say, I don't believe Chris ever wrote this letter. This is utter nonsense. And his parents can get themselves in trouble by providing such things.

And even if he wrote it - how is this letter going to prove anything? Given that it was Shannann who was lying in a shallow grave, murdered with the child she was carrying. And Chris was in jail, having confided in murdering her.

Right, just look at Shanann.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Question: Is it now acceptable to bash family members? Just curious.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I just wanted to say, I don't believe Chris ever wrote this letter. This is utter nonsense. And his parents can get themselves in trouble by providing such things.

And even if he wrote it - how is this letter going to prove anything? Given that it was Shannann who was lying in a shallow grave, murdered with the child she was carrying. And Chris was in jail, having confided in murdering her.

Right, just look at Shanann.

I agree, in a court of law I think it would maybe go against him, but how can they get in trouble for providing it?

 

[Gardenista]

Question: Is it now acceptable to bash family members? Just curious.

Yes, we are allowed to discuss Cindy Watts smears of Shanann.

 

[Mitch11]

I am not sure that you can compare your close relationship with your son, to that of Cw and his toxic Mom.

She didn't attend his wedding. That is not something a Mom who was close to her son, would do. That is so disrespectful and cold hearted, in my opinion.

You probably really do have a close relationship with your son. So I am certain he would reach out to you if he was in a bad situation and needed help. Apparently CW didn't feel that same way about his Mom.

Exactly. She chose not to attend their wedding as she wanted to make her son choose between SW and her. That's a massive power play on her part. If you love your kids you accept their chosen partners, unless that person is without a doubt abusive. You may not like them, but you do what psychologically healthy people do which is put a smile on your face and play along as best you can. Why.. Because you love your child, you want them to be happy and you want to be part of their life.

I can tell you now that not attending their wedding will be the tip of the iceberg. Mrs Watts is a control freak.

And I absolutely hate to say this but often men marry women who represent their mothers. I am in no way saying SW was anything like Mrs Watts, as from all accounts she absolutely wasn't. However SW appeared to be strong, determined and showed great leadership skills. Although different some of these traits would have reminded CW of his mother's dominance so to speak. Eg a powerful women

IMO from a psychological perspective, I believe when he murdered SW, some of the rage he took out on her will have also been his underlying rage towards his mother. His mother would have been making his life hard for years, and unfortunately SW's success will be highlighting CWs lack of power.

I too have empathy for his mother. It must feel awful knowing you raised a sociopath. It must be so hard to know deep down that your son is responsible for heinous crimes against your grandchildren. It must be excruciatingly hard to be stuck in denial refusing to believe it. It must be awful spending everyday seething, angry and resentful towards your daughter in law who took your beloved son away from you. It must be awful being so messed up psychologically that you feel it's OK to go on national TV bagging out your dead DIL, legitimizing her death, and legitimizing where her son dumped the bodies of her grandkids. It must be horrendous to live life just not getting it and nothing anyone says will make you understand. What an absolute miserable existence.

However.. That's where it ends. The other 99% of my empathy rests with SW's family and friends, who have taken the brutal force of this man's shortcomings.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Yes, we are allowed to discuss Cindy Watts smears of Shanann.

Thank you.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree, in a court of law I think it would maybe go against him, but how can they get in trouble for providing it?

If he wrote it, then, no. But what if he didn’t? Then, it is forgery?

 

[RosalindaA]

I think they need to accept the truth and face the reality that their son will spend the rest of his life in prison. And they will have no choice but to accept it after Monday. They will learn why their son had to plead guilty, to avoid death row, after he saw mountains of evidence against him, a come-to-Jesus moment followed, and decided LWOP was far more desirable than death row.

Setting aside inappropriate statements made by the parents, I sincerely and respectfully hope that they seek professional counseling. Publicly apologizing to Shanann's family should be done too. Soon.

Yes, hopefully in time their delusions and victim-blaming will be replaced by understanding and repentance towards Shannan's family. Maybe. And their son needs to face them personally and tell them what he did without excuses.

 

[tmar]

Thank you, @PrimeSuspect, for your kindness & thoughtful response. It feels really good to be acknowledged! As you know, people with NPD can come across as charming to those unfamiliar with their mask. Even to their own victims, they can wear one mask at home and another in public, which is confusing for the victim, and the casual observer may never know what is lurking there under the surface. All of my friends thought my mom was wonderful because of how she treated them (sometimes in such a caring manner as to get a reaction out of me. Picture the daughter who never gets to sit on mom's lap, watching mom invite another child to cuddle.), and treated me in front of them. Narcissists can be very passive aggressive.

It is so completely a form of brain washing. You question them, you question yourself, you forgive them, you hate them, you love them, you pull away, they pull you back just to push you away. Such a mess! I had a few lightbulb moments, but the big one came when I had to choose between the welfare of myself and my child, and the welfare of my mom. She was forcing me to choose, with her irrational moods & tantrums. I didn't choose my mom. I think that she still blames me for her reactions and I have to tell you, I couldn't care less if she does. She blew that facade wide open in a huge way, and I feel sad for her, but not sad enough to be a victim again. During that time, I had to really dig deep and rely upon my own strengths and those of my husband, even though part of me just wanted "my mom"; the mom who existed only in my imagination.

I have so much empathy for SW, she must have stumbled into that family and had a big WTH moment. I am sure that CW played one face to her and another to his mom. His mom played one face to the rest of their family and friends, another to SW & yet one more to CW. How frustrating the whole thing must have been.

I feel so much for you Bellelsle
Going through your young years, in such a messy environment, not really being loved and treasured by your own mother.
You are so lucky to have a supportive and understanding husband.
I would think similarly in this case, we may later hear, Shan'ann had the support of her parents, brother and friends.
I certainly hope so.

 

[Jax49]

Bumping Tricia's post. bbm

Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #48

"Dear Colorado303,
No, my friend, we are not going to delete your post. Chris' parents, especially his mother, made a few pretty mean comments about Shanann and tried to paint their son as someone who did nothing wrong. We are allowing our members to discuss these comments and to express how they feel. As long as it doesn't go too far.

I think pretty much everyone can understand not wanting to accept your son killed his kids and pregnant wife but no one understands the vitriol toward Shanann from Chris' parents.
It is jaw dropping, shocking, and all around awful.

Jackie Peterson, all over again I swear."

 

[Allabouttrial]

If he wrote it, then, no. But what if he didn’t? Then, it is forgery?

Think if it was a full letter it would be pretty obvious if it was a forgery.

 

[Serena Angelique]

<modsnip - snarky and personalized>Let's remember here that there are no winners in the deaths of a mother and her children.

The reality is that there will likely be no apology, or public admission of having been wrong by most of the people who have publically taken the side of of a confessed killer.

The post is not suggesting that anyone will ever be “gleeful” about the death of 3 vibrant people either. Nobody is “gleeful” here. It merely expresses that there will be relief borne out of redemption when SW and her children are finally vindicated once and for all.

 

[katydid23]

I agree, in a court of law I think it would maybe go against him, but how can they get in trouble for providing it?

If it was a forged or fake letter, for example.

 

[Charlot123]

Exactly. She chose not to attend their wedding as she wanted to make her son choose between SW and her. That's a massive power play on her part. If you love your kids you accept their chosen partners, unless that person is without a doubt abusive. You may not like them, but you do what psychologically healthy people do which is put a smile on your face and play along as best you can. Why.. Because you love your child, you want them to be happy and you want to be part of their life.

I can tell you now that not attending their wedding will be the tip of the iceberg. Mrs Watts is a control freak.

And I absolutely hate to say this but often men marry women who represent their mothers. I am in no way saying SW was anything like Mrs Watts, as from all accounts she absolutely wasn't. However SW appeared to be strong, determined and showed great leadership skills. Although different some of these traits would have reminded CW of his mother's dominance so to speak. Eg a powerful women

IMO from a psychological perspective, I believe when he murdered SW, some of the rage he took out on her will have also been his underlying rage towards his mother. His mother would have been making his life hard for years, and unfortunately SW's success will be highlighting CWs lack of power.

I too have empathy for his mother. It must feel awful knowing you raised a sociopath. It must be so hard to know deep down that your son is responsible for heinous crimes against your grandchildren. It must be excruciatingly hard to be stuck in denial refusing to believe it. It must be awful spending everyday seething, angry and resentful towards your daughter in law who took your beloved son away from you. It must be awful being so messed up psychologically that you feel it's OK to go on national TV bagging out your dead DIL, legitimizing her death, and legitimizing where her son dumped the bodies of her grandkids. It must be horrendous to live life just not getting it and nothing anyone says will make you understand. What an absolute miserable existence.

However.. That's where it ends. The other 99% of my empathy rests with SW's family and friends, who have taken the brutal force of this man's shortcomings.

Not sure it is this complicated. Maybe Chris Watts was rageful towards his mother. Or maybe, he simply exchanged one woman who as feeding him and ironing his clothes for another one who was doing exactly the same. (Because give or take, Shanann took a good care of Chris).

I think he killed because for some reason he thought it would be a convenient way out, and also, well, all these life insurances could have come in handy.

 

[katydid23]

Think if it was a full letter it would be pretty obvious if it was a forgery.

not necessarily