GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

[MassGuy]

When you stop working out, you actually lose weight at first because you lose muscle (and muscle is heavier than fat). 40 pounds in 3 months is a lot but not impossible, especially if he had a drastic change in diet, which I assume he did.

Yeah. I’m questioning his ability to do that with a jail diet.

It would all depend on his access to junk food, and there would have to be a lot of it.

 

[tmar]

Did they label him with an L for loser?

Moo

 

[esmerelda]

I'm reading pg 1238 and beyond of docs. And it hits me thanks to a new Julia Robert's moving coming out that I seen the trailer to last few days. CW didn't "say" anything during those interviews. Parents who have "missing" children do not willingly sit for hours being questioned. The detective told him numerous times this was voluntary he could leave anytime he wanted.
Thinking about the movie trailer Julia goes into what I believe is a police station, screaming frantically to help her find her son, granted Julia can be a bit dramatic, but I can't imagine that wouldn't be a normal reaction of a desperate parent.
Which is what I suspect put those nails in Chris's coffin. He wasn't frantic, he didn't say hey " we need to be looking for them." Take the wife out he wants to divorce from this equation, no desperate frantic need to find his kids. While reading the docs it seemed pretty normal, the questioning, but this movie scene flashed in my head as I imagined myself in the circumstance.

 

[Tortoise]

What was it he had on his grill on Sunday night. 4 chicken breasts I think. I'll bet he's sick thinking about that beautiful life he had.

I couldn't work out the purpose of his photo of the inside of his refrigerator.

 

[tmar]

NK's birthday is in July, there was one instance where it wasn't blacked out. I will try to find it if no one has by the time I catch up in this thread.

Posted recently 3 July.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I'm reading pg 1238 and beyond of docs. And it hits me thanks to a new Julia Robert's moving coming out that I seen the trailer to last few days. CW didn't "say" anything during those interviews. Parents who have "missing" children do not willingly sit for hours being questioned. The detective told him numerous times this was voluntary he could leave anytime he wanted.
Thinking about the movie trailer Julia goes into what I believe is a police station, screaming frantically to help her find her son, granted Julia can be a bit dramatic, but I can't imagine that wouldn't be a normal reaction of a desperate parent.
Which is what I suspect put those nails in Chris's coffin. He wasn't frantic, he didn't say hey " we need to be looking for them." Take the wife out he wants to divorce from this equation, no desperate frantic need to find his kids. While reading the docs it seemed pretty normal, the questioning, but this movie scene flashed in my head as I imagined myself in the circumstance.

He also kept calling them "those kids" and "these kids", not MY kids.

Moo

 

[Allabouttrial]

@stereopticons A question for you, if you don't mind. I'm guessing CW had a lot of pent up anger, resentment, rage inside him. Do you think he knew it was there or had been going with the flow for so long that he didn't realise how much he had until he met NK? Hopefully that makes sense, it sounded better in my head!

 

[stereopticons]

If they self-diagnosed her as bipolar, it makes no sense. If SW had been diagnosed by a doctor (and CW relayed it to his parents), but did not take the medication, it is a totally different stories. Truth is, we don't know, and never shall know. In general, 25% of women will have at least one episode of depression in their lifetme, so the diagnosis of affective disorder is neither rare nor stigmatizing.

RSBM.

You’re correct that depressive episodes are quite common, but bipolar requires at least one manic or hypomanic episode which is much less common (~4% among adults). And despite how common mental illness actually is, there is still a huge amount of stigma surrounding it. Women especially are often dismissed as being “crazy”. Of course, I have no way of making a diagnosis without SW’s medical records but I did not see any signs that might point to bipolar. And I think the Watts family was just using it as a derogatory description rather than an actual diagnosis.

 

[KathrynL]

I would agree if this was around springtime, but if I recall she happened on him in Dec. 2017.

I had March in my head, but my 60yo brain is unreliable. Doesn't change my thought that the lawyer was being truthful. Shanann was a striking woman with a big personality, so memorable, imo.

A divorce after CeCe was born, debts accumulated and a third child on the way would have also preserved the lives of SW, Bella and Cece.

You are discounting all of their friends who said they were a very happy couple, always had their hands on each other, hugging , kissing holding hands - that is not the body language of an unhappy couple putting on a front for the public. The troubles they had seem to develope in the few months prior to their murders.

I've been with my DH for nearly 22 years, a lot of them filled with a many stressful situations. We got through them, but people who saw us together would also see a lovey-dovey couple and not suspect that we had issues, disagreements, tension and frustration with each other. We weren't putting on a front, but our marriage was far from perfect and trouble free. IOW, what people see doesn't reflect all of reality. moo

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

If they self-diagnosed her as bipolar, it makes no sense. If SW had been diagnosed by a doctor (and CW relayed it to his parents), but did not take the medication, it is a totally different stories. Truth is, we don't know, and never shall know. In general, 25% of women will have at least one episode of depression in their lifetme, so the diagnosis of affective disorder is neither rare nor stigmatizing.

I see a couple of things in SW that raise certain flags, but I see the same in CW. Clearly, the family could not balance the budget, at the end, their budget was abysmal. Also, falling for the promise of making big money on some lifestyle product might be the symptom of something, but not necessarily illness. Maybe, "gullible" should be the word?

And then, Shanann creates online "magic story" of their family, and Chris creates his own "magic story", that of all-encompassing love. Both stories are incredibly far from the truth. Hers, ends up in death of herself and the kids, his, ends up in murder and prison.

From this, I can only conclude that Shanann might have had emotional problems, but hers were nothing compared to Chris's ones.

But who puts their marital issues on FB? The you can be as happy as me if you take Thrive videos were nothing more than commercials to sell her product, not meant to be a representation of her life.
Ronnie saying she was unstable and bipolar was directly related to the nut incident which had happened just a few weeks ago. He directly referenced it in his interview, they had a whole new batch of hate from that event to feed off of and frame the narrative to make her the looney.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I had March in my head, but my 60yo brain is unreliable. Doesn't change my thought that the lawyer was being truthful. Shanann was a striking woman with a big personality, so memorable, imo.



I've been with my DH for nearly 22 years, a lot of them filled with a many stressful situations. We got through them, but people who saw us together would also see a lovey-dovey couple and not suspect that we had issues, disagreements, tension and frustration with each other. We weren't putting on a front, but our marriage was far from perfect and trouble free. IOW, what people see doesn't reflect all of reality. moo

Very true, good points.

 

[stereopticons]

@stereopticons A question for you, if you don't mind. I'm guessing CW had a lot of pent up anger, resentment, rage inside him. Do you think he knew it was there or had been going with the flow for so long that he didn't realise how much he had until he met NK? Hopefully that makes sense, it sounded better in my head!

Very hard to say. It’s possible that he repressed it and meeting NK and the issues with his parents brought it to the surface. It’s also possible that nothing caused it, or that he always felt rage and just didn’t express it.

 

[Allabouttrial]

But who puts their marital issues on FB? The you can be as happy as me if you take Thrive videos were nothing more than commercials to sell her product, not meant to be a representation of her life.
Ronnie saying she was unstable and bipolar was directly related to the nut incident which had happened just a few weeks ago. He directly referenced it in his interview, they had a whole new batch of hate from that event to feed off of and frame the narrative to make her the looney.

Don't think that's strictly true. His friend Colon said he had known CW's family for years and his mum had said this numerous times over those years.

 

[tmar]

It says he weughs 225. Wasn’t he 185 at the time of arrest?

Soon he'll look like the hunk that SW met a few years ago, with his new, great lifestyle.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I had March in my head, but my 60yo brain is unreliable. Doesn't change my thought that the lawyer was being truthful. Shanann was a striking woman with a big personality, so memorable, imo.



I've been with my DH for nearly 22 years, a lot of them filled with a many stressful situations. We got through them, but people who saw us together would also see a lovey-dovey couple and not suspect that we had issues, disagreements, tension and frustration with each other. We weren't putting on a front, but our marriage was far from perfect and trouble free. IOW, what people see doesn't reflect all of reality. moo

I agree, I am not saying they never argued or had stresses but they were happy, in love and it was not a marriage on the verge of falling apart, that appears to have happened in the last few months.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Very hard to say. It’s possible that he repressed it and meeting NK and the issues with his parents brought it to the surface. It’s also possible that nothing caused it, or that he always felt rage and just didn’t express it.

I just can't imagine being able to suppress it all those years without saying anything to anyone.
ETA: Or it coming out in other ways.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Reading this made me wonder if the nut incident made him start to think there were grounds for him to lose custody if he wouldn't protect them from his family, and he didn't want Shanann to have them. I tend to think that event and the "dagger" he accused her of driving between him and his father allowed him to demonize her.

I see a very sneaky shift in his text messages towards saying things he wasn't really feeling, and I think it may have been the time he made the decision to kill her so he wanted to create a trail of caring about her and going along with actions like therapy and a weekend away, even though at the end he would have to also have an event where she would walk out on him and take off her wedding ring.

Yes! Reading the timeline the DA put together at the end of the discovery documents really highlighted that I think. I felt like I could feel CW make the decision to kill them all, sometime around the Thursday or Friday before. I think he considered it before then, but it felt like he knew by then that he would do it.

He made such a sudden turnaround, agreeing to counseling and the weekend away, messaging her nicely, telling her not to reveal the baby’s gender until Monday, he hugged and kissed her, he then sent that creepy doll photo .. he really is pure evil.

That timeline, with the added commentary, is brilliant.

 

[nwmouse]

If they self-diagnosed her as bipolar, it makes no sense. If SW had been diagnosed by a doctor (and CW relayed it to his parents), but did not take the medication, it is a totally different stories. Truth is, we don't know, and never shall know. In general, 25% of women will have at least one episode of depression in their lifetme, so the diagnosis of affective disorder is neither rare nor stigmatizing.

I see a couple of things in SW that raise certain flags, but I see the same in CW. Clearly, the family could not balance the budget, at the end, their budget was abysmal. Also, falling for the promise of making big money on some lifestyle product might be the symptom of something, but not necessarily illness. Maybe, "gullible" should be the word?

And then, Shanann creates online "magic story" of their family, and Chris creates his own "magic story", that of all-encompassing love. Both stories are incredibly far from the truth. Hers, ends up in death of herself and the kids, his, ends up in murder and prison.

From this, I can only conclude that Shanann might have had emotional problems, but hers were nothing compared to Chris's ones.

Nothing I have learned about SW makes me think she was bi-polar or unstable in any way, mentally.
Just the opposite. She was steady, reliable, loyal, a perfect mom and wife and a high achiever, married to a lump.
She had high standards and liked to keep organized. Nothing wrong with that, I applaud her dedication and patience.
It must have been so hard for her dealing with the lump she married who never took initiative and basically she had to tell him what to do because he was ineffective.
CW has the charisma of a wet cement.
SW on the other hand, always stole the show because she was bright and vivacious. Must have bugged Mother Watts to no end.

Any instability or craziness is on CW's side.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I agree, I am not saying they never argued or had stresses but they were happy, in love and it was not a marriage on the verge of falling apart, that appears to have happened in the last few months.

Yup. This is illustrated in her text messages to her friends and CW.

This was a relatively new development, and it shocked, saddened, and confused her.

 

[Larry Levine]

Bet who typed this up, had a laugh with everyone.

That what the state does when you are servng life. All Sentences must have an outdate in the computer. That must be the code for life.