GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[katydid23]

And Shan’ann knew that, how much they hated her and she was still willing to take her children to them and spend time in their house. She was willing to be the bigger person for the sake of the girls and Chris. That thought would never enter Cindy’s mind.

Exactly. Cindy and family wouldn't even attend her grand baby's 3rd Birthday Party because she hated her DIL so much. That is pathetic.

 

[gitana1]

I may be giving them way too much benefit of the doubt but I just don't feel safe concluding they /wanted/ or expected to hurt Cece with the peanuts. I see it as a more older generation stubbornly dismissing all the “newfangled allergies”. I'm willing to admit Cindy may have been way more sinister about it but honestly when I read the history between them and Shanann I can see how compared to their seemingly quiet and mellow son (and yes he had something going on under the surface I'm not saying he was just a quiet mellow guy) Shanann could have seemed a bit intense and particular.


I've wondered what the cross contamination at the engagement party actually entailed. I honestly can see how from their viewpoint she was blowing up on them and calling them evil when they weren't intending malice (though maybe they were and I'm way off?).


I do agree though, damn, they barely got to see their grandkids even if they absolutely think it's foolish and she was out there with her food demands just do what you can to make peace. It's not how I would have done things. I just think it's tragic for /everyone/ and don't feel good about ripping apart one set of grieving grandparents. Though I may very well be giving them too much credit because the whole case is mind boggling to me.

I would be with you in giving them the benefit of the doubt because yeah, personalities and generations can clash. True!

But the reason I don't give them that benefit is a few other things that tend to create a pattern to me:

1. Not going to the wedding.
2. Failing to send invites to the shower.
3. Angrily refusing to allow the Rzuecks contact with their grandkids in Colorado while mama Watts cared for them but the Rzuceks stopped by: "What am I here for then!?!"
4. "What happened to that boy from PineForest High? Shanann happened to that boy. That's what happened!"
5. Accusing Shanann of being bi-polar, a narcissist. Etc.
6. The typical family background of many of the family annihilators who survive, which tends to include seemingly personality- disordered parents.

I will say this though - what I've learned through research and therapy to figure out how to protect my ex and my three, young brothers in law, (my MIL has always actually been nice to me, strangely!) is that people become personality disordered like this usually through abuse, neglect and abandonment and they feel a ton of pain and emptiness.

So is there room for empathy? Yes. It can be hard when faced with the meannnes and cruelty and selfish destructiveness but at core the reasons for who they became and how they suffer are quite sad.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I don’t understand why, after all those years together, Shanann didn’t know CW was a liar. And it’s clear from her texts to him up until the end that she still believed in him. Did he just start lying when he met NK?

If I was married and my husband was still wanting sex with me 3 times a day before I left to visit my family, I doubt I’d have reason to think he was lying or cheating. 3 times a day is a lot and she did suspect him of lying while she was away but how could she prove it.

 

[Gardener1850]

Do you think that? I just don’t get it. There had to be a gradual decline in their relationship, but apparently, Shanann didn’t see it. She loved him til the end. I would say CW must have been a great actor, but he wasn’t, we all watched him on the porch.

Or maybe there was no decline in the relationship at all. Maybe CW isn't able to feel love the way most people do. Maybe CW just couldn't go 5 weeks without his usual sex 3 times a day so he got a substitute to "play house" with while SW was gone. And during that time, maybe he decided he liked the life of lots of sex, fun trips to museums and weekend camping and no kids to be responsible for. Maybe during that time he decided to murder his family to keep living that new life with NK. I agree with you that Shanann didn't seem to see it, but IMO it is possible that there was nothing obvious there to see prior to the NC trip. SW reported that CW couldn't keep his hands off her before she left for NC and I believe her. She was having his baby. She suspected an affair right before being murdered due to the restaurant charge but had no proof. She expected they would go away to Aspen for the weekend and work out whatever it was that happened while she was in NC. IMO SW knew what real mature love looked like and was going to give CW a chance to explain or make it up to her (for neglecting to communicate). Because they had 8 years together and 3 kids she wasn't going to just throw that life away over CW overspending (that's all she really knew for sure is that he had a very expensive restaurant bill) and CW refusing to talk to her. I think SW might have left him over the infidelity once she found out but she was going to give him benefit of the doubt until she knew. That was her generous loving nature. MOO.

 

[Thepoet]

Have a few questions for anyone/everyone;

Did NK really lose her job? Looking, but haven't found confirmation. If so, it appears that CW's tsunami of damage continues.

CW is now in the prison system and the reality should be setting in.

Will CW flourish in prison or deteriorate (his photo doesn't look good)?

Will CW have a long life or. . . . . . ?

Will CW decide at some point, to tell his story? (I believe he will, maybe in a year, because of ego.)

Thanks, in advance. I value all the information and opinions here.

 

[katie565]

So many people were dismissive of this. I get kids do weird stuff .. but it never sat right with me. It’s hard to accept it as a tragic coincidence, it even it wasn’t sent in a nepharious threatening way, but rather as you said some sort of unconscious thing of what he was obsessing about

I was one of those people who was dismissive. Finding out he took that picture and sent it Shanann that Friday was like a punch in the gut. It was just too sick to be true.

 

[Thepoet]

Or maybe there was no decline in the relationship at all. Maybe CW isn't able to feel love the way most people do. Maybe CW just couldn't go 5 weeks without his usual sex 3 times a day so he got a substitute to "play house" with while SW was gone. And during that time, maybe he decided he liked the life of lots of sex, fun trips to museums and weekend camping and no kids to be responsible for. Maybe during that time he decided to murder his family to keep living that new life with NK. I agree with you that Shanann didn't seem to see it, but IMO it is possible that there was nothing obvious there to see prior to the NC trip. SW reported that CW couldn't keep his hands off her before she left for NC and I believe her. She was having his baby. She suspected an affair right before being murdered due to the restaurant charge but had no proof. She expected they would go away to Aspen for the weekend and work out whatever it was that happened while she was in NC. IMO SW knew what real mature love looked like and was going to give CW a chance to explain or make it up to her (for neglecting to communicate). Because they had 8 years together and 3 kids she wasn't going to just throw that life away over CW overspending (that's all she really knew for sure is that he had a very expensive restaurant bill) and CW refusing to talk to her. I think SW might have left him over the infidelity once she found out but she was going to give him benefit of the doubt until she knew. That was her generous loving nature. MOO.

Well said, bravo. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

So many people were dismissive of this. I get kids do weird stuff .. but it never sat right with me. It’s hard to accept it as a tragic coincidence, it even it wasn’t sent in a nepharious threatening way, but rather as you said some sort of unconscious thing of what he was obsessing about

And if the docs didn't leave anything out, it's made creepier by the fact that he didn't caption the photo at all and when she said "I don't know what to make of this?" He didn't reply.

Moo

 

[MassGuy]

If I was married and my husband was still wanting sex with me 3 times a day before I left to visit my family, I doubt I’d have reason to think he was lying or cheating. 3 times a day is a lot and she did suspect him of lying while she was away but how could she prove it.

She couldn’t prove it. She was caught between a rock and a hard place.

On one hand, she wanted to know what the hell was going on. On the other, she didn’t want to push him away any further.

She wanted to save their marriage, and really pushing him on the affair would only make things worse at that point.

 

[AbbyG]

My thoughts are he was in over his head with his lie to NK about the separation . He was trying to appease SW to keep her and the pregnancy away from NK and his lies . He deleted his Facebook - not in my belief as premeditation but to keep this facade up and further keep the two women knowing the truth. He refused to take pictures with the kids and SW , again trying to keep anything from being posted and interfering. I think her getting that alert of the dinner transaction finally forced SW to KNOW there was someone else and that led to a confrontation. I believe she slept on the couch in digust and anger and he knew SW would ruin - in his warped mind- his perfect relationship and life he wanted obsessively with NK. I just don’t know about the the babies but I really believe SW directly confronting him caused him to go through with something he had considered doing at some point, he had to do it then . I want to say the timing would fit if there are yet unseen by the public messages to CW from SW about that meal price . All totally speculative , MOO .. I think it was considered by him and he did it when he felt NK finding the truth out would damage their relationship. He didn’t want to lose NK, making, in his obsessed mind of what he deserved- precious lives expendable and their awful murders done in haste and without being able to complete whatever he had started to put together as a plan. NUA further screwed up an already haphazard awful act.

I am of the opinion that, sadly, he already planned to murder her, and so was willing to pay for the dinner and risk SW knowing. I think he actually thought she would be gone before it would come up, but she was looking right away. I think he coldly and brutally planned the whole thing to the best of his limited-thinking ability, and I also think Nikki and the cops coming before he expected ruined the rest of the plot he hoped to enact. The dramatic change is scary, brutal and heartbreaking, why we are still hear I guess. IMO MOO

 

[sun16]

It seems to me that LE has done everything they can to show NK in a bad light, from saying she laughed creepily to unnecessarily exposing all of her sex searches on the Internet. They wanted to ruin her life, and they succeeded. Everybody hates her.

Assume they did this since they aren’t going to charge her with anything.

 

[AbbyG]

And if the docs didn't leave anything out, it's made creepier by the fact that he didn't caption the photo at all and when she said "I don't know what to make of this?" He didn't reply.

Moo

Really excellent point. If it was a joke or something he came upon and couldn't understand, include a funny caption! The lack of response -- scary. It's like those Metallica lyrics he looked up after murdering his whole family was already playing in his head. Sick sick *advertiser censored*. MOO

 

[Thepoet]

One more question (just one, I promise!);

Will the Watts family disappear, or will we be hearing from them, again?

 

[Mellowmelly]

Have a few questions for anyone/everyone;

Did NK really lose her job? Looking, but haven't found confirmation. If so, it appears that CW's tsunami of damage continues.

CW is now in the prison system and the reality should be setting in.

Will CW flourish in prison or deteriorate (his photo doesn't look good)?

Will CW have a long life or. . . . . . ?

Will CW decide at some point, to tell his story? (I believe he will, maybe in a year, because of ego.)

Thanks, in advance. I value all the information and opinions here.

NK did lose her job, I remember reading it in the docs.
As for will CW flourish ? Give it a few years and hopefully he will be clinically obese, unable to bear to look in the mirror at the dreadful sight of himself

 

[cattlekate]

Ci


Cindy Watts IS evil. We saw it with our own eyes on television...no need to look at anything you posted to know that.

"What happened to Chris? SHANANN happened to Chris."

I didn’t see any “evil” in Cindy’s interview. I stand by my post. I question Sandra’s relating of events.

 

[stereopticons]

Diagnoses for insurance purposes! Interesting to look at these disorders from that perspective.

I think we all want to fit someone like this in a specific diagnostic box because we want order and certainty. I'm guilty of that. It makes my mind feel better.

It is helpful to realize there probably won't be one definitive answer.

It's natural to want to categorize things--our brains do it automatically. So when things don't fit neatly into one category, it's hard to accept!

 

[Gardenista]

Coming soon!
Verified account 5m5 minutes ago
JUST IN: The Weld County DA's office has just released hundreds of hours of videos related to the #ChrisWatts case. It includes Watts' interview with investigators and their interview with his mistress Nicole Kessinger. We are downloading it now. Stay tuned. @DenverChannel

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Did they secretly hope to inflict trauma on the child?
What causes this?

There's no other way to explain to explain it away. So yes it was intentional. Everything they do is very calculated.
Sociopathy, is the cause. In other words just being a flat out evil person. They get joy from inflicting pain,and suffering on others.

 

[MassGuy]

One more question (just one, I promise!);

Will the Watts family disappear, or will we be hearing from them, again?

I’d love for them to go quietly, but I don’t think they will.

They crave control, and the only control they have left is in regards to the narrative.

I’d be shocked if Keith Morrison wasn’t interviewing them on Dateline at some point soon.

Cindy has things to say...

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Coming soon!
Verified account 5m5 minutes ago
JUST IN: The Weld County DA's office has just released hundreds of hours of videos related to the #ChrisWatts case. It includes Watts' interview with investigators and their interview with his mistress Nicole Kessinger. We are downloading it now. Stay tuned. @DenverChannel

Oh boy