GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #63

[NuttMegg]

My biggest concern is that she is not scared for herself in that interview. She does not understand that her BF, her romantic interest, turned a murderer. For Pete's sake, murdered once, can murder again, easier. They say the first one is the easiest one. She might as well be the next one, had they not detained him.

I don't quite understand this lack of empathy towards the victims, but OK, maybe the shock, and the fact that she did not have own kids and never saw his...and after all, people express themselves in a different way, maybe these squeaking sounds are grief for the kids...but what about fear for herself, and feeling relieved that he was behind bars?

I considered most of her interview as an act, complete with vocal stage pronunciation. Kind of like a female macho man. I saw it as self serving, (ie urging him to make the marriage work while sending raunchy photos of herself). She tipped her hand, ie that she was angry, when she chose to bash SW. (Materialistic? lol). She lied a few times, ( I haven't had SM since 2018?) However I did believe her when she described not making the connection between murder, and SW/kids missing on 13 Aug, Monday. I don't feel sorry for her, I don't hate her, I mainly wish they had never hooked up but maybe he would have found someone else to fill that mistress role. I am glad I was never caught up in something so sleazy. It ended so tragically for everyone else but her.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

RW doesn’t waste any time in criticizing SW...very sad

The whole lot of them are just scum.

 

[MassGuy]

It is a disturbing Freudian slip or subconscios foreshadowing unless it was a threat that SW would understand. Did he ever threaten to kill the kids if she didn't do what he wanted?

I doubt it. That doesn’t appear to be his style.

His abuse was more covert.

 

[ttcRider]

What was Casey Anthony diagnosed with again? Whatever it is it reminds me of NK! They could be sisters. (not looks) but vocal speech patterns.

OMG i thought the same thing while listening to her.

 

[Nessa131]

O

I believe he was talking about something that had happened prior and him having to review the neighbors tapes with him for that reason.

k thank you for clarifying! I need to listen with my headphones in! I can hear them much better that way!

 

[tmar]

I’m slowly listening to the NK interview. The part where she cries about the girls, it’s so very odd. Her tone of voice goes suuuper high when she talks about how little they were, it’s exactly the same tone she used in the beginning about CW being sooo cute by being a dad. It set off all kinds of red flags. The crying was mostly high pitched fake moans, to which the DA was unmoved and asked her if she wanted to step out. And she says no and pretty much continues going on about herself - this is so hard on me what’s going to happen to me I won't be able to go into public the public won’t understand that this happened to me oh woe is me what will happen to me. Vomit.

And then she “can’t remember “ the day of the murders which was only couple of days before. Uh huh. Sure, Jan.

It is so contrived. She is so cold about Shannan. She is literally forced by the DA to say her name, and does so with so much distaste. The rest of the time she says “his wife”. She blames everything on Shannan - she took all of CWs money, ignored him, only cared about her phone, kept him from his parents, didn’t tell him about Nutgate. For Shannans job NK says something like “I don’t even know what you’d call that.” And that her house was too nice and had too many nice things in it and she couldn’t have afforded that how, she was obviously living abover her means. NK hated Shannan, even as she was dead in a morgue somewhere. No concern for her, just cold dislike. It’s horrible.

The whole thing is so off, it really seems like NK may have sociopathic tendencies herself.

We found, what happened, when these 2 'adults' got together, and what resulted.
These 'discoveries' are so important, as surely they will be analyzed by professionals , and a clearer picture of these 'horrid' personalities/characters will be evident/discussed.
MOO.

 

[mrjitty]

I doubt it. That doesn’t appear to be his style.

His abuse was more covert.

Although apparently not so covert with his shouting that the neighbours wouldn't think SW had left him!

 

[scapa]

Re: NK’s interview and her tone in discussing Shannan.

I think demonizing the Wife in an affair is probably pretty common for the AP.

The cheater goes on and on about how horrible the wife is to him, a littany of her “abuse”.

Then it takes the onus off of the AP because she isn’t the deceiptful abusive person, it’s the Evil Wife. And NK gets to be consoler, the support.

She’s openly displaying her inner guilt over this affair.

I agree. I'd add that in the interviews it seems as if NK is using the interviewer as a foil for working through the shock of what CW has done, and her own possible (if unwitting)culpability in it. She may or may not be vacuous, selfish, pleasure-seeking, or whatever in how she approached the affair, but I honestly don't see any indication that a) she played a role in disposing CW to murder his family or b) takes any satisfaction in it.

Beginning and continuing the affair was undoubtedly a crappy thing to do -- but millions of people do it, every day, without finding themselves caught up in multiple murder. I don't think she was involved beyond that, and I don't think LE does either (despite the parenthetical comments in the discovery docs about her repeated internet *advertiser censored* searches and "eerie giggle") -- another parallel, IMO, with the Coleman family murders.

 

[MassGuy]

Although apparently not so covert with his shouting that the neighbours wouldn't think SW had left him!

Yeah. But yelling during an argument is an emotional reaction to conflict.

He doesn’t appear to have been physically or verbally abusive.

Those text messages show that he abused her through silence and withdrawal.

 

[mrjitty]

Yeah. But yelling during an argument is an emotional reaction to conflict.

He doesn’t appear to have been physically or verbally abusive.

Those text messages show that he abused her through silence and withdrawal.

I guess we will never know but my take on the neighbours comments was that the arguments were beyond normal

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

I wonder if he had it all planned in a much better fashion then the actual cruelty of the murders threw him off his game. I feel like that photo from Friday was him testing the waters mentally. Gauging a reaction. Feeling it all out. He decided he could pull it off....then he actually did it and it wasn't anything like what he had thought it would be.

 

[wilsodh]

I think you switched up CW and SW. CW wasn't entirely careless - remember he made plans to be alone at the oil tanks in advance, he was moving and washing sheets at odd hours possibly to hide or prepare for hiding evidence, he pulled the bed of his truck into the garage for privacy . . . I could go on, but his actions do show a lot of planning. Going to work was part of his planning too, a part so important he went even though he hadn't finished his 'work'. He most likely never thought NUA would catch on so early- remember he tried to convince her and the other friend not to call the police.

Yes, thank you! Agree, although these are shorter term tactical actions to execute a plan. What is a mystery to me is that in the planning phase he apparently didn't take the time to reason through a few basic staging scenarios. Leaving the cell phone and purse was a HUGE oversight. Perhaps he wasn't in a cool, composed state of mind after all, but was in a semi-panic about the approaching daylight and the magnitude of what he had just done.

I agree, I think the girls were murdered first too . . . if he hadn't already killed them and then found out Shan'ann's flight was delayed, wouldn't he just have waited to enact his plan another time? After all, the amount of time he needed to cover his tracks was very important and since the school was already expecting the girls, there would be no difference between that weekend and another.

I like this scenario as affording a reasonable explanation for why execute the murder of CW despite the time crunch? On the other hand...

Likewise, I have maintained the theory he killed her first. According to NK interview, CW was on the phone with her between 9 pm-11 pm 8/12. NK mentioned wondering why he was up so late.. Was he waiting for SW (yes.. Yes he was). SW called him, and he did not answer. SW then texted him to inform him about the flight delay. Once she was already taken off, he responded (about the time he got off the phone with NK) saying that he was passed out and didn't hear her call. The girls were on a FT call with Frank that evening.. And he grilled chicken. Plus Bella kept waking up according to him. Not really much time to be smothering his daughters. SW not having seen or talked to her daughters all weekend would no doubt have gone in their room to kiss them. If they were gone, there would have been screaming and a fight. She removed her pants and crawled into bed not waking CW as she stated that he would be sleeping to a friend. At that point, he straddled and strangled her and moved onto the girls. MOO, IMO

I'm still on the fence about the sequence of murders... perhaps he waited until confirmation of CW's arrival time to kill the girls?

 

[pocketaccent]

Do not believe this has been posted yet...apologies if it has. This is a new longer version of LE at CW's house on Monday, Aug. 13th.

About 4:20, detective points to something under the stairs, then picks up a clothing item. CW explains those are for donations (I think).

Remember the cadaver dog showed interest in the same area?

 

[x_files]

The voice - timbre and tone - the pronunciation of words and the attitude. Striking.

and yet they are from different regions so it's not a regional accent it's probably from watching reality tv shows and mimicking their vocal fry.

 

[Curious.1]

Burying her doesn't make sense, in that he could have buried the girls with her. I think that possibly with the late flight, his plan changed. IMO he would have found a way to add her to the oil tanks so that there was zero chance of someone coming across their bodies (animal digging up bones) but he ran out of time. It is too morbid to take this line of thought any further but I think a couple parts of his plan changed and I think that is one of them. Leaving her body in a shallow grave just doesn't quite fit with the thorough, cruel method he used to dispose of his little girls. I think he thought it thru to the point of putting them in separate tanks so that there wouldn't be as much sediment in the oil of each tank - not sure if they test for that but surely there must be some sort of purity checks?

 

[Thepoet]

I agree, I think the girls were murdered first too . . . if he hadn't already killed them and then found out Shan'ann's flight was delayed, wouldn't he just have waited to enact his plan another time? After all, the amount of time he needed to cover his tracks was very important and since the school was already expecting the girls, there would be no difference between that weekend and another.

Very good! Thank you.

 

[celticthyme]

Thanks for that. Very helpful. I lean toward second-degree for Shan'ann, followed by first degree for the girls. I think it would be out of character for someone like CW to plot the murder of his (presumably beloved) children in order to punish SW. I'm not sure why CW would be so angry with SW
to punish her in that way. SW seemed earnest in her attempts to save the marriage, and there were no texts of threats or other potential motives for such an anger by CW toward her. Furthermore, it doesn't seem like CW thought through his crime at all. Anyway you slice it, all suspicion would fall on him almost immediately. While he is obviously no genius, I would think any forethought would have presented only one outcome: his getting busted. I suspect there may have been fantasies of eliminating his 'problem' with direct action, and then CW came home late and she said something to trigger a fit of anger in Chris. Maybe it was something that directly threatened his continued relationship with NK, which he wanted to preserve at all costs. Whatever it was, he choked her unconscious (doesn't take that long to do), then continued choking her until she was dead. Taking stock--and in a machine-like dissociated state--he made some even worse choices. Knowing SW would never leave her children (the 'disappearing wife' scenario), the only way he could make her disappearance seem even remotely plausible would be to have the girls disappear also, as though SW left with the girls. So he did the unthinkable.

But there is so much he didn't consider, such as leaving her cell phone & shoes behind (how dumb was that), or how and where he disposed of the bodies (obviously the cops would converge on well #319 after a single interview, or after interrogating GPS data from the truck). He didn't even give himself any time to dispose of the bodies properly: if he was thinking about the truck GPS giving away his movements, he had to know there would be risk of co-workers arriving at well 319 while he was up on a tank stuffing a body through that small hole. This murder was simply a no-way out scenario for him from the get-go. Even someone as stupid as Chris Watts must have been able to foresee these things if he had pre-planned the whole thing...!?

My husband always used to say, "good thing criminals are so stupid." Yup!

 

[wilsodh]

Omg that video is so telling!!!! Guilty as sin! And his neighbor at the end. Wow.

That commercial at 3:54 i got chills- knowing what we do now. A fetus. Followed by a skull coming out of a black oil like substance.

Ditto! Wow! I've not seen that video before... fascinating to see the killer looking at surveillance video of himself when he would have been loading bodies into his truck! I've never seen anyone look so damn scared and guilty.... And then the neighbor's comments to the cop at the end....

Does anyone have any theories as to why his truck was seen coming down the street and then backing into the garage rather than simply being re-parked from the street? Seems like the surveillance camera would have picked up his initial departure also...

Dave

 

[x_files]

Yes NUA what a wonderful friend. And the neighbor. They didn't stay quiet. They both trusted their gut and spoke out. Lesson to all. Go with your instincts. As far as the covered doll goes I think it part of his enjoyment. He loved torturing poor Shanann. Evident by his coldness, constantly keeping her off balance as to what the problem was. Then just when she thinks there is hope he goes in for the kill. Literally. IMO the girls were killed before Shanann got home. Her plane was late. He was on a timeline. Why would he wait?? I wonder if we will even find out where the strong cleaning smell came from. What part of the house and what testing showed. All my opinion of course.

I wonder if SW ever had nightmares that CW would try to kill her? Or have any idea he was capable of it?

 

[Thepoet]

I agree with everything you have said, I believe he’s more depraved than people think. He murdered the girls before SW got home, that’s why when she asked for a picture of the girls he sent her one from earlier in the day. And knowing now that it was he who sent the picture of the doll to SW, makes him even more depraved IMO.
What I don’t get is the why, I could be wrong but I thought most family annihilations happened when the wife or husband decided to leave and the partner left behind murdered them as a way of stopping them or controlling them. He was the one who wanted out, I will never understand why.

It's so hard to understand and his mind is so obviously very different from the norm! Nurture (his family) and nature (himself)!