GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

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After watching the 20/20 episode last night I realized that Celeste looked so much like Shannan's mom.

Still after 4 months it's so hard to believe that those 2 beautiful, precious , sparkling little girls and their beautiful mom and little bro are truly gone. It's so hard knowing CW fooled everyone into believing he was a caring, loving, protective father & husband. He was not. No workplace floozie can cause this man to murder and discard his family.

Any person who engages in a relationship with a married person, regardless of the status of that marriage( separated, in midst of divorce, being lied to about status, ect) deserves the blow back that comes when the person they are cheating with shows their true colors. People who engage in relationships with married people are not innocent bystanders. In for a penny, in for a pound.

JMOO
 
1mtroyal said:
That's what it looks like to me also, (that it was planned), but why did he screw up so much, leaving his wife's phone home, leaving her purse home, dumping the kids in the tanks where they would eventually be found, leaving her car at home?
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He didn't have enough time. He had no idea NAU was going to show up at his door. After that it was just one obstacle after another for him. And we got to see him unravel from one moment to the next.
 
1mtroyal said:
That's what it looks like to me also, (that it was planned), but why did he screw up so much, leaving his wife's phone home, leaving her purse home, dumping the kids in the tanks where they would eventually be found, leaving her car at home?
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Idk but the guy is not too bright, he could not begin to feign grief and he told LE that NK took his breath away, basically gave them motive on a silver platter. Even sitting in front of LE being accused of his families murder his obsession/love fog for her still governed his thoughts. Repeating myself but these perps seem to think their actions are logical and that others will see them that way too. Why call the school and unenroll them because they are moving when he has not even put the house on the market to sell? SP sold his wife’s car when search parties were still out looking for her. CC sent the threatening emails from his own computer. I think they think they are smarter then everyone else.
 
kay74 said:
I believe 100% it was rage. He got mad, went behind her and strangled her. That is rage in my books.
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Then why weren't there any signs of a struggle? Why did she not have any defensive wounds? Why didn't he? And does that mean that he also "got mad" at the kids and did the same? Also, how does that explain the signs that this was pre-planned?
 
MsBetsy said:
It makes sense to me. The time of the search was right after the murder. There was alot of information on line at that point, and I would think she would be curious to find out more about Shanann and the investigation.

Sorry that was in response to why Nickol would do a search in Sept 2018. My posts are not appearing where I am replying.
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But that would be after she got her phone back from the police. They could not have seen that she searched her after they had examined the phone.
 
Tortoise said:
I agree. I'm thinking there was some triangulation going on from early childhood. Say Mother Watts and Father Watts were unhappy. I don't want to use the initials CW for mother Watts because then it gets confusing with Chris' initials, so I'll use MW for mother Watts and FW for father Watts. Instead of communicating his unhappiness to MW, FW aligns with CW and they bond over it because CW also feels the brunt of MW. When CW leaves home, FW has to endure MW alone. So drugs are his replacement for losing CW. Along comes Shanann. Now MW has a scapegoat, someone to blame for CW abandoning her and FW is drawn into MW's game - the pressure is off him because she has a new victim.

It looks as if FW is CW's only real supporter and vice versa, they are enmeshed. CW can't join in with Shanann rejecting FW.

I found this on wiki -

The Perverse Triangle
The Perverse Triangle was first described in 1977 by Jay Haley[13] as a triangle where two people who are on different hierarchical or generational levels form a coalition against a third person (e.g., "a covert alliance between a parent and a child, who band together to undermine the other parent's power and authority".[14]) The perverse triangle concept has been widely discussed in professional literature.[15][16][17][18][19][20][21] Bowen called it the pathological triangle,[20] while Minuchin called it the rigid triangle.[22]

A dramatized example of Triangulation and Splitting can be viewed in the TV show Law & Order Criminal Intent, Season 4, Episode 1 entitled "Semi-Detached" in which Detective Bobby Goren (Vincent D'Onofrio) refers to a psychological strategy of "splitting" used by the antagonist to drive a wedge between Goren and his partner, Detective Eames (Kathryn Erbe). It is an example of classic manipulative triangulation or divide and conquer through hidden and subtle means by the third party and under the pretense of caring about those who are being turned against each other.[23]

Cross generational coalition[edit]
For example, a parent and child can align against the other parent but not admit to it, to form a cross generational coalition.[24] These are harmful to children.[15][19][25]

Triangulation (psychology) - Wikipedia
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Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.
 
Someone upthread asked if we thought NK would get a book deal.

I don't ghost write true crime anymore, but I still belong to the "pool" from which they're courted so I keep up with the news. The idea of the book IS being passed around. It's all pretty anonymous until you sign the contract (and then we get into super crazy NDAs) so I don't know if it's coming from a publishing company, an agent, a random person who just wants to write one, or NK herself but the proposal is out. It might just be some random FB person who's trying to make a quick buck, I don't know. My experience with these kinds of things is that yes, a book is forthcoming. Whether it ever makes the shelves or people will read it is another thing altogether. I see this in almost every major case-if you're a key player in it then someone is going to want to tell your story. Most people pass, but some do not.
 
mtnlites said:
Someone upthread asked if we thought NK would get a book deal.

I don't ghost write true crime anymore, but I still belong to the "pool" from which they're courted so I keep up with the news. The idea of the book IS being passed around. It's all pretty anonymous until you sign the contract (and then we get into super crazy NDAs) so I don't know if it's coming from a publishing company, an agent, a random person who just wants to write one, or NK herself but the proposal is out. It might just be some random FB person who's trying to make a quick buck, I don't know. My experience with these kinds of things is that yes, a book is forthcoming. Whether it ever makes the shelves or people will read it is another thing altogether. I see this in almost every major case-if you're a key player in it then someone is going to want to tell your story. Most people pass, but some do not.
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I'm not in the literary field, but I bet 99.9% there is a book or 2 or 3. Look what both ABC and HLN put together rather quickly, I was glued to both even though I didn't learn anything from either......there's so much more, a gold mine of it. Salacious sells, Moms and kids being murdered sells, strong silent type goes bad sells, death on the prairie sells, murder in the 'burbs, and, if any of them can get information from CW, somehow, the book will go off the charts. As I mentioned yesterday, just put any book on the front display of the airport bookstore, and there it goes. And then there's audible, read by the author her/himself. Oh yeah, there will be a book. Look at the characters trying to make a buck from her on FB, livestreams on YTube, etc.
 
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MsBetsy said:
It makes sense to me. The time of the search was right after the murder. There was alot of information on line at that point, and I would think she would be curious to find out more about Shanann and the investigation.

Sorry that was in response to why Nickol would do a search in Sept 2018. My posts are not appearing where I am replying.
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I don't see how that is possible. NK's phone was logged into evidence on August 23, 2018.
Discovery Page 1066:
upload_2018-12-8_10-31-33.png

If she searched Shanann's name on Sept 1, 2018 it would have to be on her new phone that was not in LE custody. If her internet searches over a week later on her new phone somehow showed up on a phone already in LE custody that is pretty freaky.
JMO.
 
i watched the 20/20 episode last night What really got me was he was on surveillance video buying a breakfast roll at a convenience store right after disposing of the bodies. How sickening.
He changed 360 degrees since SW married him like his soul was hijacked by a demon.
another thought, was it the new baby that he wanted at first and now didn't want push him over the edge?
 
Tortoise said:
I agree. I'm thinking there was some triangulation going on from early childhood. Say Mother Watts and Father Watts were unhappy. I don't want to use the initials CW for mother Watts because then it gets confusing with Chris' initials, so I'll use MW for mother Watts and FW for father Watts. Instead of communicating his unhappiness to MW, FW aligns with CW and they bond over it because CW also feels the brunt of MW. When CW leaves home, FW has to endure MW alone. So drugs are his replacement for losing CW. Along comes Shanann. Now MW has a scapegoat, someone to blame for CW abandoning her and FW is drawn into MW's game - the pressure is off him because she has a new victim.

It looks as if FW is CW's only real supporter and vice versa, they are enmeshed. CW can't join in with Shanann rejecting FW.

I found this on wiki -

The Perverse Triangle
The Perverse Triangle was first described in 1977 by Jay Haley[13] as a triangle where two people who are on different hierarchical or generational levels form a coalition against a third person (e.g., "a covert alliance between a parent and a child, who band together to undermine the other parent's power and authority".[14]) The perverse triangle concept has been widely discussed in professional literature.[15][16][17][18][19][20][21] Bowen called it the pathological triangle,[20] while Minuchin called it the rigid triangle.[22]

A dramatized example of Triangulation and Splitting can be viewed in the TV show Law & Order Criminal Intent, Season 4, Episode 1 entitled "Semi-Detached" in which Detective Bobby Goren (Vincent D'Onofrio) refers to a psychological strategy of "splitting" used by the antagonist to drive a wedge between Goren and his partner, Detective Eames (Kathryn Erbe). It is an example of classic manipulative triangulation or divide and conquer through hidden and subtle means by the third party and under the pretense of caring about those who are being turned against each other.[23]

Cross generational coalition[edit]
For example, a parent and child can align against the other parent but not admit to it, to form a cross generational coalition.[24] These are harmful to children.[15][19][25]

Triangulation (psychology) - Wikipedia
Click to expand...
The fact that ShanAnn and her family had to pay for another family's malignant dysfunction is just horrifying and heartbreaking.
 
kay74 said:
Despite Chris's mother putting him against Shanann that 5 weeks she was gone triggered this. Shanann even said this disintegration of their marriage happened in the last weeks and she didn't know why. He was a free bachelor and went after NK. Even if and do we not know, he flirted with NK before that, she should have stayed home sensing something was wrong. She found out what was wrong when she got home from her trip and things exploded, kids woke up and witnessed it and that is why they were killed too. Chris might have tried to save their marriage even with NK tempting him but Mama Watts told him bad things about Shanann so in his mind he didn't want her anymore either. The thing is why in the heck didn't Chris in his rage, get in his truck, take off, go away but he couldn't, his rage overcame everything, it overtook him.
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Evidence suggests he planned this as he toldhis work mates on Friday and Sunday that he would be at the Cervi site and didn't need them to be there. The same site at which he disposed of their bodies. Something he stated AFTER he agreed to be with Shanann that Monday to drop off the girls on their first day of school.

So when he said he would handle the site alone, he already knew he would not be there to take the girls.

Further, there were no defense wounds on Shanann and nothing to indicate he exploded in a rage against her. She was not battered. The evidence suggests he lay on top of her as she was pinned under the sheets and so she could not struggle or fight back as he calmly strangled her to death.

Cece likewise had nothing to suggest she struggled and her bed looks like she had been in it. Which indicates he began to suffocate her while she was asleep.

Bella is the only one who shows indications of struggling. Repeated bite marks of her tongue which show she tried hard to fight against the hand that suffocated her.

But nothing in the house shows any disturbance of any kind which we would perhaps see if he was running around chasing terrified children trying to escape an enraged madmen they just saw killing their mom.

Their beds looked like they were in them and had been taken out. Not even that they had gotten out on their own because the covers weren't pulled back.

CW did not call police or 911 as many people do when they erupt in rage and commit homicide. And he is seen on video calmly loading his truck which he quietly backed into the garage. And then calmly driving away. It looked like someone taking out the trash. Not someone who just erupted in an insane rage and destroyed his family.

I don't think someone can calm down and start acting that apathetic that quickly if the whole thing started with a fight.

He planned to murder his family. And did so in cold blood. IMO.
 
Gardener1850 said:
I don't see how that is possible. NK's phone was logged into evidence on August 23, 2018.
Discovery Page 1066:
View attachment 158885

If she searched Shanann's name on Sept 1, 2018 it would have to be on her new phone that was not in LE custody. If her internet searches over a week later on her new phone somehow showed up on a phone already in LE custody that is pretty freaky.
JMO.
Click to expand...

I just searched "Christmas markets" on Google on my laptop.

I then went to my Google app on my phone and looked at my history. There it is, my search for Christmas markets.
 
Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
We have read a lot about Chris’s enmeshment with his mother but he seems to be more enmeshed with his dad. I’ve read statements Chris made about his dad could not handle him moving out after high school and that was the reson for the drug abuse. His relationship with his dad was his concern after the NC incident and Shannan felt he blamed her for that, he asked only for his dad to come to Colorado. I’d like to hear more about their relationship. Was it because Cindy is, well, who she is, both parents seem to be very unhealthy , to say the least, as parents.
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And didn't CW say his dad had an alcohol problem after he moved to CO? Or am I conflating things?

Yeah. The problems in that family aren't with mama Watts alone. It seems like a ton of dysfunction to go around for everyone.
 
Tortoise said:
PommyMommy posted an article saying that LE confirmed to CrimeOnline (?) that 2017 was a typo.

I think Tigerlily has posted just above that their first texts started in June 2018. She may have searched Shanann before then but that is when they started communicating.
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The discovery I saw clearly stated that she had made MULTIPLE searches of Shanann and CW prior to June but that only some were specifically recoverable. It gave dates of 8/17 for CW and 1/18 for Shanann.

It's in the section laying out Nk's text messages and internet activity.
 
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