GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[ray9898]

Intelligence in one field, ie mechanics, is great, i admire it. But even his mother admitted that cw had trouble socially, which is also a field that requires intelligence: to understand what others are communicating and to have the ability to interact appropriately in return, without choosing mass murder to replace manuevering through divorce proceedings for example..

I completely disagree with your statement that cw had to play the "hand he was dealt".

He dealt himself the hand, there was nothing passive about it. His choices, his lack of planning. His lack of intelligence in seeing what the results would be from the course he chose.


.

LOL....social interaction difficulties have little to do with intelligence levels.

I said he 'played the hand he was dealt' because there was a disruption in his plans before his end game.

 

[NuttMegg]

Who? Pages upon pages of comments attacking NK as basically an accomplice.


I have seen all those things. I still see desperation, not a lack of intelligence.

but I haven't seen any posts calling nk an accomplice.

Had CW called for a lawyer before interrogation, if he had chosen to omit the media appearances, we'd have a year or 2 to go to a trial. At least he could have delayed his desperation, but he was not intelligent enough to do so.

 

[NuttMegg]

LOL....social interaction difficulties have little to do with intelligence levels.

I said he 'played the hand he was dealt' because there was a disruption in his plans before his end game.

Well i disagree with your entire post, of course intelligence plays a part in successful social interactions. He didn't have the intelligence to plan his crime successfully. What do you think he was planning to do with the Lexus, her purse, meds, and cell phone?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Intelligence in one field, ie mechanics, is great, i admire it. But even his mother admitted that cw had trouble socially, which is also a field that requires intelligence: to understand what others are communicating and to have the ability to interact appropriately in return, without choosing mass murder to replace manuevering through divorce proceedings for example..

I completely disagree with your statement that cw had to play the "hand he was dealt".

He dealt himself the hand, there was nothing passive about it. His choices, his lack of planning. His lack of intelligence in seeing what the results would be from the course he chose.

Go listen to the CBI interview after his confession. His anger at SW is incredible, even at that point, after having been caught, he was blaming her for his situation, a predicament that he himself was responsible for.
.

Well said, NuttMegg , his cards dealt were of his own making, nothing passive about it!
NUA screwing up his plans are the cards he was dealt? I don't understand it, makes CW sound like a victim, imo.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Who? Pages upon pages of comments attacking NK as basically an accomplice.


I have seen all those things. I still see desperation, not a lack of intelligence.

NK spent hours and hours speaking and texting with CW and the content of this communication she has kept secret. We'll never know whether NK gave CW an ultimatum unless he says so, and even then, should we believe him? Did she know he'd take out his whole family, no way, but LE specifically asked her if she did and of course, she said 'noooooooooo', but the public can make of it what they want.

 

[molly1255]

NK spent hours and hours speaking and texting with CW and the content of this communication she has kept secret. We'll never know whether NK gave CW an ultimatum unless he says so, and even then, should we believe him? Did she know he'd take out his whole family, no way, but LE specifically asked her if she did and of course, she said 'noooooooooo', but the public can make of it what they want.

I completely agree. She went on ad nauseam about the most ridiculous of things like his macros, his thrive double patching, etc., but didn't reveal any details of their many hours of conversations. IMO, she gave LE nothing. But she did reveal herself.

She was controlling his diet, she had the unmitigated gall to go to the marital home more than once, and she initially told LE she was there just once, which was a lie. She was trying very hard to find CW an apartment and this was a push on her behalf to speed up the separation and she expected this to happen the week of the murders.

In one breath she said she encouraged CW to work on his relationship with Shanann when he was in NC and then we learn she was sending naked pictures of herself to him when he was there.

This doesn't make her an accomplice and she didn't know he was going to take out his entire family. But she expected him to leave his pregnant wife and children. This is CW's bad, because he is the one who took vows and had responsibilities to his family, but it's her bad, too.

I'm seeing an exaggerated sense of entitlement in her and a lack of concern for those who would be terribly hurt by the affair.

JMO, I believe she gave CW an ultimatum. His solution was to take out his family, and his story about telling Shanann he wanted a separation Monday morning was for NK, IMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

and his story about telling Shanann he wanted a separation Monday morning was for NK, IMO.

Yes, one of the weakest parts of his interrogation, and the CBI guy called him on it...really Chris, you chose 4:15 am to tell your wife you wanted a separation? Chris' explanation was just babbling.

 

[book-thinker]

He couldn't explain how she left. I imagine he had to have a plan to get rid of the Lexus, Shanann's cell phone, etc. and was probably going to do that after he got home from work on Monday.

If NUA hadn't called the police and CW had managed to move the Lexus, the neighbor's security cam would have shown when the Lexus left the garage. I don't think it would have taken LE very long to figure out that no one had been able to reach Shanann on Monday, she missed her doctor's appointment, and the girls weren't in school. In fact, CW himself had called the school that morning.

CW also had a big problem at the Cervi work site with Shanann's grave. LE would have been out there searching because CW was person of interest #1 and they would have found the grave.

I also think LE would have discovered the affair and it appears they were working on this as security at CW's employer had gone through work emails and provided LE with NK's name as a possible affair partner before NK contacted LE.

He made a lot of mistakes, and fortunately he did and he couldn't overcome them. I do think he thought he was going to get away with it, and even when he realized his mistakes, he still kept lying and insisting he didn't know where they were. As someone pointed out, CW thought he was the smartest guy in the room.

The narcissist believed he committed the prefect murder, impossible for LE to consider him a suspect.
Blatantly lying to LE about any involvement in the disappearance of Shannon and two young daughters.

Hours after the murdering and disposing of their bodies, he calls Bella's school letting the front desk know he is disenrolling Bella.

Next he calls his realtor, Anne Meadows about putting his home 2825 Saratoga Trail up for sale. He's tells her
a smaller home is what he wants. She called back and suggested he drive by a property on his way home, he tells Anne Meadows he will check it out, on his way home. There's a good chance he drove by the property before meeting LE at his home, and playing the concerned husband and father.

This monster was busy doing his evil deeds, the early morning hours of August 13.

In CW fantasy world ,he expected to be pamper, coddled, and waited on, this is where NK came into the picture.
In his distorted mind, Shannon disrespected him by not being the idea female. He lacks of empathy, and has
a evilness within him.

 

[kv21]

Next he calls his realtor, Anne Meadows about putting his home 2825 Saratoga Trail up for sale. He's tells her
a smaller home is what he wants. She called back and suggested he drive by a property on his way home, he tells Anne Meadows he will check it out, on his way home. There's a good chance he drove by the property before meeting LE at his home, and playing the concerned husband and father.

I don't think this part is quite right. From my reading of the discovery, it appears that the realtor and Chris discussed a *comparable* house that may have been on the market -- to help them ballpark how much to list the 2825 Saratoga Trail house at. I don't think he was shopping for a house for himself -- he wanted an apartment.

But the part about unenrolling the girls was really dumb -- you wife has supposedly up and left you and your first concern is school enrollment? Unless they were in such dire financial straights that it was all that Chris could think about -- to try to stem the flow, by any means necessary (including murder, in his mind).

 

[book-thinker]

I don't think this part is quite right. From my reading of the discovery, it appears that the realtor and Chris discussed a *comparable* house that may have been on the market -- to help them ballpark how much to list the 2825 Saratoga Trail house at. I don't think he was shopping for a house for himself -- he wanted an apartment



But the part about unenrolling the girls was really dumb -- you wife has supposedly up and left you and your first concern is school enrollment? Unless they were in such dire financial straights that it was all that Chris could think about -- to try to stem the flow, by any means necessary (including murder, in his mind).[/QUOTE

2 weeks ago online True Crime Rocket Science article "On his way back to the crime scene, Chris Watts first went to look at
a house recommended by his realtor" (updated). Screenshots forward by Ann Meadows to Author Nick van der Leek.
Nick van der Leek possibly talked with Ann Meadow and gave more details. I see no mention on of discussion
on comps in the neighborhood in this article.
CW contacted realtor Anne Meadows 8/13/2018 at 0828 hours, Anne Meadows replied to watts during this exchange suggesting 6508 Saratoga may be viable. Anne Meadows contacted CW back 8/13/2018 asking if watts preferred a three car garage. Watts replied back ,3 car garage I will drive by the 6508 address when get home.


Online article Nov. 22, True Crime Rocket Science author and investigative photojournalist Nick van der Leek
Shows the Discovery Documents 8th Tranche Communications Between Chris Watts and his realtor Ann Meadows.
the discovery document, Agent Galbraith contacted Anne Meadows, talked about texts msg between CW and Anne Meadows, discussed comps in the neighborhood and updates to the home by texts to estimate value and driving by
6508.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

I don't believe for a minute that NK's in witness protection. There's no trial! She's not a witness! The govt only uses witness protection when the government will benefit, by ensuring the witness stays alive long enough to testify. The program is not for random idiots who got their 15 minutes of unfavorable publicity.

What Happens When You Enter the Witness Protection Program?
The Witness Protection Program Today

WITSEC was not retired after the mafia’s demise. It continues to be used in cases involving drug cartels, various gangs, and even international terrorism. Several former drug kingpins have joined WITSEC after putting rivals and allies in prison. An Egyptian-American who told his story to the Kansas City Star testified against several perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing after one asked to rent one of his vans for the attack; his story came to light when the witness became a fan fixture known as Helmet Man at Kansas City Chiefs football games.

The people who go into witness protection are career criminals who are deeply embedded in criminal organizations, and thus are very valuable witnesses for the state as they can be used to take down multiple criminals.

There's no way NK is in witness protection due to people on the internet being mean to her.

GMAFB!

 

[ray9898]

2 weeks ago online True Crime Rocket Science article "On his way back to the crime scene, Chris Watts first went to look at
a house recommended by his realtor" (updated). Screenshots forward by Ann Meadows to Author Nick van der Leek.
Nick van der Leek possibly talked with Ann Meadow and gave more details. I see no mention on of discussion
on comps in the neighborhood in this article.
CW contacted realtor Anne Meadows 8/13/2018 at 0828 hours, Anne Meadows replied to watts during this exchange suggesting 6508 Saratoga may be viable. Anne Meadows contacted CW back 8/13/2018 asking if watts preferred a three car garage. Watts replied back ,3 car garage I will drive by the 6508 address when get home.


Online article Nov. 22, True Crime Rocket Science author and investigative photojournalist Nick van der Leek
Shows the Discovery Documents 8th Tranche Communications Between Chris Watts and his realtor Ann Meadows.
the discovery document, Agent Galbraith contacted Anne Meadows, talked about texts msg between CW and Anne Meadows, discussed comps in the neighborhood and updates to the home by texts to estimate value and driving by 6508.

Pretty much none of that is correct. He texted with the realtor about putting their house on the market. The realtor confirmed his current house was a 3 car garage and then gave him an address of a comp up the street which he later replied was the exact same floor plan.

 

[ray9898]

NK spent hours and hours speaking and texting with CW and the content of this communication she has kept secret.

....and none of that means the conversation was in any was notable or relevant to the murders. Small talk would be normal in my opinion based on their relationship.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

A consice timeline from June through to sentencing for any newcomers.
From a happy pregnancy announcement to a shallow grave: The full timeline of the Chris Watts murder case

 

[molly1255]

Agree completely... he was a good liar, but not an effective one... good liar can by psychopathic, effective liar can be intelligent and psychopathic...

In watching his porch interviews, I thought he came off as a pretty smooth liar when he thought he was in control of the interviews. He looked straight at the camera when he lied and he didn't flinch.

I think what really messed him up in the interviews is primarily two things. First, he had to play two separate and conflicting roles in those interviews. One role was for LE and the public and that was of being a concerned husband and father. The other role was for NK's benefit and he barely referred to his missing wife and children by their names, didn't mention Shanann's pregnancy, said weird things like "it's vanished", and he smiled and chuckled inappropriately. I think those chuckles and smiles were for NK - as in "I told you Shanann was crazy".

The other problem he had was motor mouth. He couldn't explain how Shanann and the girls left the house so he went on and on and he was stumbling badly.

Marlon Brando would not have been able to pull off two such conflicting roles at the same time, but CW thought he could and he did three separate interviews. He's so narcissistic, self-absorbed, and completely lacking in self awareness that he had no clue that others, and LE would view his interviews as evidence of guilt. He probably thought he did a good job in the interviews until one of his friends told him otherwise.

JMO, CW is far from smart. Smart people don't do things that will land them in prison with the death penalty or LWOP, but psychopaths do it all the time. They greatly overestimate their abilities and their own intelligence and they greatly underestimate the intelligence and abilities of others. They simply don't think there will be any consequences to pay.

JMO

 

[molly1255]

I don't believe for a minute that NK's in witness protection. There's no trial! She's not a witness! The govt only uses witness protection when the government will benefit, by ensuring the witness stays alive long enough to testify. The program is not for random idiots who got their 15 minutes of unfavorable publicity.

What Happens When You Enter the Witness Protection Program?
The Witness Protection Program Today

WITSEC was not retired after the mafia’s demise. It continues to be used in cases involving drug cartels, various gangs, and even international terrorism. Several former drug kingpins have joined WITSEC after putting rivals and allies in prison. An Egyptian-American who told his story to the Kansas City Star testified against several perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing after one asked to rent one of his vans for the attack; his story came to light when the witness became a fan fixture known as Helmet Man at Kansas City Chiefs football games.

The people who go into witness protection are career criminals who are deeply embedded in criminal organizations, and thus are very valuable witnesses for the state as they can be used to take down multiple criminals.

There's no way NK is in witness protection due to people on the internet being mean to her.

GMAFB!

I agree, there is no way NK is in witness protection and for all of the reasons you state. In addition, she provided LE with NOTHING that helped them from what I've been able to ascertain.

Why would the government offer to bankroll her in a witness protection program? She didn't testify in a trial. She made LE's job more difficult by deleting all traces of CW on her cell phone. JMO, if people are being mean to her feelings on the Internet, then she should avoid going online and keep a very low profile until it blows over.

 

[molly1255]

Well said, NuttMegg , his cards dealt were of his own making, nothing passive about it!
NUA screwing up his plans are the cards he was dealt? I don't understand it, makes CW sound like a victim, imo.

I think NUA's actions were divine intervention. She deserves all the best in life for doing the right thing, having to go through the hell she went through and for being the very definition of "friend".

 

[Noreen McGurl]

I completely agree. She went on ad nauseam about the most ridiculous of things like his macros, his thrive double patching, etc., but didn't reveal any details of their many hours of conversations. IMO, she gave LE nothing. But she did reveal herself.

She was controlling his diet, she had the unmitigated gall to go to the marital home more than once, and she initially told LE she was there just once, which was a lie. She was trying very hard to find CW an apartment and this was a push on her behalf to speed up the separation and she expected this to happen the week of the murders.

In one breath she said she encouraged CW to work on his relationship with Shanann when he was in NC and then we learn she was sending naked pictures of herself to him when he was there.

This doesn't make her an accomplice and she didn't know he was going to take out his entire family. But she expected him to leave his pregnant wife and children. This is CW's bad, because he is the one who took vows and had responsibilities to his family, but it's her bad, too.

I'm seeing an exaggerated sense of entitlement in her and a lack of concern for those who would be terribly hurt by the affair.

JMO, I believe she gave CW an ultimatum. His solution was to take out his family, and his story about telling Shanann he wanted a separation Monday morning was for NK, IMO.

And something that confuses me is the night he got a babysitter and supposedly went to dinner with her and then back to her house but in discovery his text read like she was the one who was driving home he says I'm glad you left when you did because the Rockies game is just getting out I hope you made it home safe..something to that effect, .... just another factor contributing to the amount of deception involved!! MHO NK was at that house more than twice and I think they both enjoyed getting away with their deviant Behavior and God only knows what that entailed!!

 

[Noreen McGurl]

And something that confuses me is the night he got a babysitter and supposedly went to dinner with her and then back to her house but in discovery his text read like she was the one who was driving home he says I'm glad you left when you did because the Rockies game is just getting out I hope you made it home safe..something to that effect, .... just another factor contributing to the amount of deception involved!! MHO NK was at that house more than twice and I think they both enjoyed getting away with their deviant Behavior and God only knows what that entailed!!

I mean maybe the text could have gotten mixed up being LE had to retrieve conversations because both of them deleted there data!!! Which is something an honest person wouldn't do!!!

 

[book-thinker]

Both articles seems to give different stories by true crime writer Nick van deer Leek.
The inconsistency in the both articles makes me wonder if Nick van deer Leek talked
with Anne Meadows for this second article dated Dec 16.

Online article Nov. 22, True Crime Rocket Science author and investigative photojournalist Nick van der Leek
Shows the Discovery Documents 8th Tranche Communications Between Chris Watts and his realtor Ann Meadows.
the discovery document, Agent Galbraith contacted Anne Meadows, talked about texts msg between CW and Anne Meadows, discussed comps in the neighborhood and updates to the home by texts to estimate value and driving by 6508.

Online article Dec. 16, 2018 True Crime Rocket Science "On his way back to the crime scene, Chris Watts first went to look at
a house recommended by his realtor" (updated). Screenshots forward by Ann Meadows to Author Nick van der Leek.
I see no mention on of discussion on comps in the neighborhood in this article.

I would hope this author can backup this article Dec. 16, 2018