GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[cybervampira]

To think they didn't withhold any messages implicating NK is far fetched. Why would they release everything? LE typically withholds information. We also don't know what agreements were made. Logically, there's much more than we know. n'est-ce pas?

BBM

I was trying to apply logic. Why would they need any kind of agreement if NK had implicated herself and they could prove a conspiracy? And, please, for one moment forget about how immoral she was acting. This is the DA, not her priest. Why would they withhold information if she actually committed a crime?

 

[Thepoet]

I was trying to apply logic. Why would they need any kind of agreement if NK had implicated herself and they could prove a conspiracy? And, please, for one moment forget about how immoral she was acting. This is the DA, not her priest. Why would they withhold information if she actually committed a crime?

I was referring to an agreement with CW, who almost turned himself inside out, during interrogation, trying to protect NK. Unless there was an agreement between CW and LE, to protect NK, the timing of the plea agreement is illogical.

 

[cybervampira]

I was referring to an agreement with CW, who almost turned himself inside out, during interrogation, trying to protect NK. Unless there was an agreement between CW and LE, to protect NK, the timing of the plea agreement is illogical.

I don’t think the DA needed an offer to protect NK to get him to confess. Tammy had him by the balls. He was exposed. No more playing the good boy. He was done. No running the gauntlet. No trial. He chickened out.

But OK, I think we have to agree to disagree.

 

[rogue ant]

She googled SW as early as Sept 2017 and spent hours googling her after that. She googled wedding dresses for 2 hours the week before the murders took place.

Snipped by me for clarity.

I believe the DA's office indicated that the September 2017 date was a typo.

 

[Thepoet]

I think it's important to remember;

1. Defense counsel seemed better than competent and CK seemed fully informed..

2. The plea agreement was made in return for the death penalty being taken off if the table. Except, the death penalty WASN'T on the table! The DA had already announced that he wouldn't make a decision about the death penalty until AFTER the arraignment.

3. The defense approached the DA about an agreement. What was the urgency?What did they, the defense, need or want?

4. CW gave everything (pled guilty to ALL nine charges) in return for nothing. (death penalty wasn't on the table) or did he?

5. The arraignment was months away. A trial was a year or more away. Lots of things could change. What was imminent that CW feared? The only logical thing is that the possible prosecution of NK was made known to CW, and he capitulated!

He avoided nothing by pleading. He sat in front of his family and the world and was exposed. And everything came out anyway. Or did it?

 

[Thepoet]

Snipped by me for clarity.

I believe the DA's office indicated that the September 2017 date was a typo.

And then they said; it wasn't a typo!

 

[rogue ant]

And then they said; it wasn't a typo!

I hadn't heard that. Thank you for the correction.

 

[Seenit]

I know I read in the files that they had assistance/fertility treatment to conceive the 2 girls. Why then was there a "let's try again" discussion/decision made without any talk of the cost and assistance that might be necessary this time around ? In the event it happened naturally but surely this would not have been expected given the history.

What I am asking really is if he was only making the suggestion of having another child with expectation that it most likely would not happen ?

I have wondered the same thing.
His reaction to the pregnancy was less than excited.

 

[Thepoet]

I hadn't heard that. Thank you for the correction.

My pleasure. I just saw this recently and it was a quote from LE, here on websleuths (early in this thread). I would search for it, but I have to be up at 4 A.M.! Sorry.

 

[moonlessnight]

agree totally. they way she said their names - her voice was full of disgust. so horrid especially the babies' names.

I can't DISAGREE more with this than I already do.

She obstructed the investigation of a missing pregnant wife and children, whose names she could barely force herself to utter. She deleted her correspondence with the murderer and clearly lied about why she did. She even deleted her correspondence with her best friend ABOUT the murderer. Now why would those texts have to be deleted if you suddenly got mad at your lover (supposedly because he lied to you... all while you insisted that he lie to his wife about you)? And why do I say she obviously lied about her motive for deleting the history of interactions? Because if she was mad at him and wanted him out of her life, she would not have stayed in contact with him. But she did continue to contact after she TOLD HIM to delete their interactions (she admitted that part, remember?). And if she was truly mad, she could have saved all those texts and used them against him with the police. But we know she deleted those texts to save her own behind, not because she was mad, or because a liar lied.

It all implies she had something to do with this and was complicit in the crime. Allegedly.

 

[moonlessnight]

it's amazing all that stuff is online. is that common?
They discovered that NK was using a hidden calendar app, where messages disappeared like snapchat, for her communications with CW so I think they realized they would never see the important communications they needed to in order to nail her.

Thanks for taking the time to look that up, but I'm not so sure that means they retrieved all deleted material beyond knowing that something WAS deleted. Repeatedly, when listing the texts of NK, CW, and SW, they referred to texts appearing on SW's phone that had been deleted from CW's. ie messages to him that he deleted so they remained only on SW's phone, which is how LE found them.

Anyway, I'm mainly wondering, and still wonder, why the interviews with the CBI did not refer to text or calls between CW/NK made after the very early morning of Monday. IE when there were people "missing". NK said that the very early Tuesday morning calls, facetime, texts, should be considered part of Monday, IIRC. That's where the tape of the interview ended, from what I can tell. So, it appears they did not show the interview asking about her physical actions, and re text, phone calls to CW, on the days after the murders, after late Monday/continuing on to Tuesday early. All of Tuesday through when he picked up his father the next day. While he was at the Thayers, when he wasn't at the PDept. After bringing Dad to the station, I think he didn't have access to the phone. As I mentioned before, maybe they did release the tape of that part of her interview, but I can't find it.
As a poster mentioned a few days ago, in the doc dump that you were quoting from, the interviews with NK are just summarized. There is a lot more detail in the interview tapes, and there does not seem to be a transcript available online, you have to just invest most of a day and watch the interviews and listen to the phone calls LE/NK.

 

[cybervampira]

it's amazing all that stuff is online. is that common?
They discovered that NK was using a hidden calendar app, where messages disappeared like snapchat, for her communications with CW so I think they realized they would never see the important communications they needed to in order to nail her.

Where did you read that?

To the best of my knowledge, CW used the app to hide images from SW. And no, that app doesn’t work like Snapchat. I installed it myself to try it. It’s nothing more than a stealth app where you keep images you don’t want in your camera roll. No messaging, no dissppearance of messages. In fact, the app uses no encryption, see discovery docs, page 2079:

IN MID JULY 2018 WATTS BEGAN TRANSFERRING IMAGES FROM HIS CAMERA APPLICATION
INTO THE SECRET CALCULATOR APPLICATION. THIS ACTIVITY IS NOT REFLECTED WITHIN
THE PHONE'S TIMELINE.
LOCATING THOSE TRANSFERRED IMAGES PROVED CHALLENGING AND WAS PREDICATED ON MERE
CURIOSITY. I SEARCHED THROUGH THE IMAGES STORED WITHIN THE DATA FILES FEATURED
IN THE CELLEBRITE {CB} REPORT FOR ITEM 41. LOCATING AN IMAGE NOT HIGHLIGHTED IN
THE TIME LINE I REVIEWED THE PATH WITHIN THE FILE INFORMATION AND NOTICED IT
INCLUDED THE WORDS "SECRET CALCULATOR."
USING THE FIND FEATURE I SEARCHED THE TWELVE THOUSAND IMAGES STORED IN THE
PHONE'S MEMORY USING THE KEY WORD "SECRET CALCULATOR." I LOCATED A VAST
COLLECTION OF IMAGES OTHERWISE UNDETECTED DURING MY REVIEW THAT ARE STORED
WITHIN THIS APPLICATION.

 

[mrjitty]

The idea that LE offered not to prosecute NK in exchange for the plea is fanciful IMO

Why would they need to?

The discovery makes clear Watts was sunk from the start with zero chance at trial.

 

[mrjitty]

Just trying to figure out how this works.

Why they would release some but not all, and how they choose what to release, etc.

If you are knowledgeable in this, appreciate in advance, your sharing how authorities decide what to release to the public.

We don't have trial by ambush

The point of discovery is for the prosecution to show all the evidence relevant to the case.

There are no 'secret texts" relating to a conspiracy between Watts and NK

 

[bears10]

I was trying to apply logic. Why would they need any kind of agreement if NK had implicated herself and they could prove a conspiracy? And, please, for one moment forget about how immoral she was acting. This is the DA, not her priest. Why would they withhold information if she actually committed a crime?

I feel like people want to see NK stand trial for having an affair more than anything. Yeah having an affair is really crappy, and I think a lot of us can agree that NK comes off as rather unlikeable, but that doesn’t mean she wanted CW to murder his family and egged him on to do so. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

The thing to keep in mind is that NK would have been a key prosecution witness, going essentially to motive.

While her lying/conduct makes her a problematic witness - this doesn't actually look to help the defence in any way that I can see.

At best the defence would have been looking to knock down some of her evidence where it appeared Watts was misleading her about his plans to leave SW.

Material that would indicate she was involved in a conspiracy before or after the fact would be devastating for the defence.

So especially NK seeking to hide the affair and delete messages - this does not help the defence.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

The idea that LE offered not to prosecute NK in exchange for the plea is fanciful IMO

Why would they need to?

The discovery makes clear Watts was sunk from the start with zero chance at trial.

There must have been compelling evidence for the defense to approach prosecution with a plea fairly early on.
Defense knew, Prosecution knew, Shannan’s family knew, Websleuthers knew as did most of the world.

 

[mrjitty]

There must have been compelling evidence for the defense to approach prosecution with a plea fairly early on.
Defense knew, Prosecution knew, Shannan’s family knew, Websleuthers knew as did most of the world.

Especially the fact that Watts himself had already confessed to murdering SW and disposing of all 3 bodies. That makes for an extraordinarily weak defence compared to other murder trials.

There simply is no forensic evidence to support the allegation that SW did the murders. So it would hang on him testifying in the hope of muddying the waters just enough.

Obviously he bottled out of doing that.

I am sure his counsel made it obvious that without testimony he was going down in flames and i guess the shame was too much for him.

 

[mrjitty]

I feel like people want to see NK stand trial for having an affair more than anything. Yeah having an affair is really crappy, and I think a lot of us can agree that NK comes off as rather unlikeable, but that doesn’t mean she wanted CW to murder his family and egged him on to do so. JMO

As i posted a couple of days ago, for me the far more fascinating psychological aspect is just how this played out on the Monday/Tuesday

A man has just murdered his entire family, and now will lie to his secret girlfriend about it - fully in the expectation that he will be able to keep on with her.

That is the overlooked part of the case. He had to not just get away with it WRT the police, but also with respect to NK.

oh to have access to those messages/facetimes

Obviously she was suspicious early on.

Did he think she would be excited by it? or overlook it? or did he simply believe he could hoodwink her?

Was she in denial? Was she frightened? Excited?

I am sure all kinds of stuff was going on.

But I also tend to think at least on the Monday before the media storm erupted, there probably was not much reason for her to not to believe him - at least initially.

 

[they'll get you]

Where did you read that?

To the best of my knowledge, CW used the app to hide images from SW. And no, that app doesn’t work like Snapchat. I installed it myself to try it. It’s nothing more than a stealth app where you keep images you don’t want in your camera roll. No messaging, no dissppearance of messages. In fact, the app uses no encryption, see discovery docs, page 2079:

You all should be extremely proud of how your cops performed during this horrific murder.
Forgive me if this has been sleuthed.
I've watched the neighbour's CCTV several times, close up, slow mo and I swear there is another car's lights out on the street.
The original footage is all over YouTube showing and suggesting the other vehicle.

Love from Australia